Latest News from Riese & Müller

[pennybags]

Grinding down welding on aluminum to make it look smooth, in fact removes material and makes the weld weaker. Those lumpy, layered welds are the correct way to weld aluminum for optimal strength. It creates a buttress at the joint, making it way stronger. It is a direct trade off. For me, the functional call made by R&M is the right one. Leaving all the weld in place, keeping it strong should be paramount, rather then weakening it to make it pretty. Go to any local welding shop and they will confirm this.

1. All frames (during design and certification process) are ASTM tested. Smoothening or not smoothening is not really a factor if the certification criteria is met.
2. The way Koga does it is that they double weld and smooth down the second weld. I just want to highlight that nuance. Koga bikes ride for over 100k miles with no issues, that too fully loaded up to 400 lbs. These frames are also ASTM and EN tested, and they pass those tests.
3. This is definitely an aesthetic issue - one that should be functional and pleasing at that premium price point.
4. Last point, if that is all functional, and good, then why does RM airbrush those welds off the pictures on their website???

RM definitely makes great bikes, but aesthetics is huge part of the the experience. If Koga can do it, then pretty much everyone can.

See here (just taken off the US website).

 

[Alaskan]

Not wanting to be argumentative but you asked a question. In my opinion just because you can make it pretty and less strong does not mean that you should. Given that a choice must be made, I favor the more structurally sound one. The website shot was obviously photoshopped by someone on the marketing team.

Personally I like the look of those weld beads. I am a big guy. I ride hard and often. Those visible welds convey strength and integrity to me.

 

[pennybags]

R&M bike frames are hand welded in Taiwan or Portugal depending on the model. The weld is sanded down to a specific strength tolerance to R&M's specs. As Alaskan stated a sanded down weld ground down to a near smooth joint is not as strong. Seeing each weld bead to me is art IMHO.

I think I saw a video posted on a different thread- I believe theirs are made in Taiwan. Some are beginning to be in Vietnam.

Also case in point - Stromer seems to be doing a much better job of welding. They are strong bikes. I dont think theirs breaks - but looks soooo much better than RM.

 

[pennybags]

Personally I like the look of those weld beads. I am a big guy. I ride hard and often. Those visible welds convey strength and integrity to me.

Agreed- i think it is each individual's preference. I definitely prefer smoother welds - as long as they all are passing the safety standards laid out.

 

[Alaskan]

Agreed- i think it is each individual's preference. I definitely prefer smoother welds - as long as they all are passing the safety standards laid out.

As you said the response where you asked for people's thoughts, you are new here. It was clear by how you stated your question what your preference was.

May I suggest, when you ask a question, you read the answers you get without arguing with them. That rarely, if ever, is conducive to community harmony or further open dialog. Arguing with the answers you get could make it appear that, rather than asking to learn what others think, you did so to start an argument. Honey rather than vinegar.

 

[webcurl]

Koga bikes ride for over 100k miles with no issues, that too fully loaded up to 400 lbs. These frames are also ASTM and EN tested, and they pass those tests.

Is that the new smooth weld Koga's that have done 100k+ with up to 400lbs or the older non smooth ones?

https://www.bongersbikes.nl/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Koga-Worldtraveller-S-stuurbegrenzer.png

http://bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/2016-Koga-WorldTraveler-overland-touring-bicycle07.jpg

Also, most of the Koga's have been simple round tube frame designs. I'm no welding expert but it's probable that there are different techniques in welding for round tube joints vs flat, etc.
I like the look of the weld's on my R&M

And where does it say that Dutch companies (Koga) & German companies (R&M) use an American testing body (ASTM) to test their frames during design & certification, and what certification is it?
Also in the photo you showed from the "US website" i can see weld's, bit fuzzy but they're there, not sure if the screenshot you provided is lower in resolution and therefore a bit fuzzy but i see no photo shopping going on.

 

[webcurl]

Koga bikes ride for over 100k miles with

Also, is that normal Koga bikes or Koga e-bikes?
e-bikes have more stresses in certain areas compared to bio bikes.

 

[Adventum]

pennybags brought up a topic of concern, asking the forum about it. He received replies that took issue with him. He then explained his points further. To me this exchange was polite expression of viewpoints in pertinent discussion. I personally learned from it . I came away with an increased appreciation of R&M and their policies about engineering and costs.

 

[HariSeldon]

Having direct experience, steel welding can be very neat when untouched and aluminium just tends to be chunky and I’d personally go with the ‘raw’ industrial look.

It’s possible to have a smooth aluminium wedding look, but the difficulty in practice is a minor dip can remove a lot of material to clean it up and whilst you may make still make the specification, the chunkier untouched weld is likely to exceed the spec by a margin.

We used to manufacture high tech rigging components in Titanium and fancy stainless steel alloys for the major global yacht races and super yachts.

When it came to the stainless welding, then a smooth polished weld surface is essential for the prevention of corrosion. The provision of these smooth polished welds to maintain strength is very costly. >

It does come down to preference and I guess if a lot of people want the smooth look it will come but at a higher price for all.

 

[Jay Kay]

Personally, I am good with the welding seams. Admittedly the darker colour on my Delite doesn't highlight them as much as the Superdelite photo provided as an example, but even then it speaks of substance WITH style.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Riese & Müller's history …

Follow this link to learn how Riese & Müller started out in 1993.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Price of Riese & Müller ebikes to rise from March 2022 …

From Riese & Müller's February 2022 newsletter:

Drastic increases in freight costs and the scarce availability of central components are leading to considerable additional costs for us, which we cannot bear alone in the long term. We have waited a very long time, but unfortunately we are forced to increase the prices of our bikes as of 01 March 2022, by an average of about 8.3 percent. We would like to inform you transparently about this process and ask for your understanding.​

 

[sammcneill]

Price of Riese & Müller Ebikes to rise from March 2022 …

From Riese & Müller's February 2022 newsletter:

Drastic increases in freight costs and the scarce availability of central components are also leading to considerable additional costs for us, which we cannot bear alone in the long term. We have waited a very long time, but unfortunately we are forced to increase the prices of our bikes as of 01 March 2022, by an average of about 8.3 percent. We would like to inform you transparently about this process and ask for your understanding.​

Happening across the board sadly.
My Specialized Turbo Levo was $12,500 and previous year was $11,500

 

[webcurl]

Edit with 4.9%:
Pheww, my mid-year 2018 SuperCharger GX Rohloff cost AUD10,066.00, just before the Australian 5% duty for non-trading partner ebikes, came with front carrier, manual shift, dual 500Wh, Intuvia.
Now the equivalent SC2 with Intuvia, E14, front carrier, Dual battery 1000Wh, no extras is AUD13,128.00 and about to go up 4.9%, so approx AUD13,771.00.

Been thinking about getting a MultiCharger (for it's 15kg up front, 65kg rear & gross 175kg capacity) before the New Smart System is implemented but will now cost (decked out with Nyon, front Cargo carrier - no bag, rear Cargo bags, etc.) AUD14,274.00 plus 4.9% = AUD14,974.00 - ouch.
Not sure i've had enough use of the SC1 yet to warrant it

 

[sammcneill]

Pheww, my mid-year 2018 SuperCharger GX Rohloff cost AUD10,066.00, just before the Australian 5% duty for non-trading partner ebikes, came with front carrier, manual shift, dual 500Wh, Intuvia.
Now the equivalent SC2 with Intuvia, E14, front carrier, Dual battery 1000Wh, no extras is AUD13,128.00 and about to go up 8.3%, so approx AUD14,218.00.

Been thinking about getting a MultiCharger (for it's 15kg up front, 65kg rear & gross 175kg capacity) before the New Smart System is implemented but will now cost (decked out with Nyon, front Cargo carrier - no bag, rear Cargo bags, etc.) AUD14,274.00 plus 8.3% = AUD15,460.00 - ouch.
Not sure i've had enough use of the SC1 yet to warrant it

staggeringly expensive. and will really shrink the addressable market for these types of bikes you'd think (and trying to take an educated guess of demographics on this forum, it's mostly people in middle/later stages of life who have built up sufficient equity to make this sort of substantial investment in a bike!
Where are the Govt EV subsidies for eBikes hey!

 

[webcurl]

Where are the Govt EV subsidies for eBikes hey!

They're too busy pushing through Surveillance laws, we'll have to get more batteries just to get away from Big Brother!

 

[sammcneill]

They're too busy pushing through Surveillance laws, we'll have to get more batteries just to get away from Big Brother!

mate! Don't get me started.....

 

[webcurl]

Price of Riese & Müller ebikes to rise from March 2022 …

From Riese & Müller's February 2022 newsletter:

Drastic increases in freight costs and the scarce availability of central components are leading to considerable additional costs for us, which we cannot bear alone in the long term. We have waited a very long time, but unfortunately we are forced to increase the prices of our bikes as of 01 March 2022, by an average of about 8.3 percent. We would like to inform you transparently about this process and ask for your understanding.​

My email stated an average of 4.9%

 

[webcurl]

Better get out and try to find a MultiCharger to test ride, see if i'm ok with the 26" wheels on the long wheelbase?

 

[peterh_nz]

Price of Riese & Müller ebikes to rise from March 2022 …

From Riese & Müller's February 2022 newsletter:

Drastic increases in freight costs and the scarce availability of central components are leading to considerable additional costs for us, which we cannot bear alone in the long term. We have waited a very long time, but unfortunately we are forced to increase the prices of our bikes as of 01 March 2022, by an average of about 8.3 percent. We would like to inform you transparently about this process and ask for your understanding.​

8.3%, Oz.

The RM email I received stated 6.8%, NZ.

Elsewhere someone reported 5.8%?.

I guess the increment varies according to country.