A Few Questions from a Prospective Riese and Müller Buyer

[Muso]

I ended up with a long preamble, so I edited to put that at the end if anyone cares, and get right to the questions:

So I'm seriously considering a full-suspension R&M bike - maybe a Delite or an Homage. I'll go ride them both before making up my mind as to the specific model I end up with. I've looked at the pricing on the website, so I know what I'm in for. Are dealers generally strict on the list price, or do they tend to offer a discount?

US West Coast people: From what I've read here it looks like shipping is added on. What does the shipping generally cost? (I live in Los Angeles).

Locks: I already own some Abus locks (they're really good!) and have the key code cards for keying them alike. Has anyone asked R&M to key the battery locks to their existing key code?

I'll be getting an "HS" version of whichever model I choose - so 28mph Class 3. On my Current, I can lower the max assist speed from 28mph to 20mph (Class 1) in the menu when that's required for certain trails etc. Can the R&M max assist speed be lowered in the menu somewhere?

I'm fortunate to have an R&M dealer within a mile of me in Hollywood, so I'll be bugging them with test rides soon enough to try the different models and hubs, but I'd like to learn as much as possible before that.

Thanks!

-James-



The pre(post)amble:

Hi, I've been lurking about reading posts for a while and decided to join.

I've been riding bikes since my Schwinn StingRay lol, through the "10-Speed Revolution" of the late '70s as a teenager, to townie bikes, to the Priority Current ebike I now own.

I friggin' love the Current, it's a superb bike. Lots of power, and I can ride up in the Hollywood Hills without having to get off to walk anymore. 1st gear (Shimano) and max assist will get me up any hill that I'm brave/insane enough to ride back down. I love this thing!

Now that I've had it for a year, what I've learned is the streets of Los Angeles are terrible. They're not so bad at the speed of my previous push bikes, but as I discovered riding an ebike, anything over maybe 12 mph is really rough. If I want to do anything other than recreational rides through the well-paved residential areas of the Hollywood Hills and Griffith Park, it's just too rough a road. Especially riding over on the right, in the gutter, where it really sucks.

If I lived somewhere like The Netherlands (basically Bicycle Dreamland), with nice bike paths everywhere, the Current would be more than enough. But I live in Hollywood.

If I'm going to ride on the street here for more utility (groceries, barber, commute) than recreation, I want to go fast - which the Current is happy to do - but without at least a fork suspension on these roads, I'm writing checks my body can't cash! Just riding up Beachwood to the café can be a chore with the traffic whizzing by as I get banged around on my bike. And without a rear suspension, the back tire can bounce about on the crappy cracked cement roads if I go too fast, which is a bit disconcerting. The pedalling is easy, it's the beating that hurts if I go too fast lol. Forget riding the ten miles to work!

So: Full suspension bike.

 

[AleksR]

Find a good bike shop that will take care of all of your needs. That is number one advice. Service it annually. I have Supercharger 2, a great bike that has served me well, with 5,000 miles on it

 

[fooferdoggie]

as far as the lock you just need the type of lock it uses then you can buy the lock from here. https://propelbikes.com/product/abus-keyed-alike-locks/

 

[Muso]

Find a good bike shop that will take care of all of your needs. That is number one advice. Service it annually. I have Supercharger 2, a great bike that has served me well, with 5,000 miles on it

For sure - there is one R&M dealer nearby (I can easily ride my bike there!) and their reviews are good. If not, there is another one down in Long Beach which isn't too bad of a drive. I definitely want an ongoing service relationship with the shop for a bike like this.

 

[Alaskan]

LA Fly Rides on Hollywood blvd. is a first class R&M dealer...super knowledgeable, great crew, Hector their head service guy is brilliant and a wonderful guy. I live in Bellingham, WA and have owned several R&M bikes including 2 Homages and 1 Delite Mountain from them. You are lucky to have them so close. build a good relationship with them and they will take very good care of you at every step in the process.

 

[Muso]

as far as the lock you just need the type of lock it uses then you can buy the lock from here. https://propelbikes.com/product/abus-keyed-alike-locks/

Yes, but I'm looking at kinda the reverse of that. I'm wondering if R&M will match the keyway on the battery and the lock that comes with it to my key code. It's kind of odd, I guess, but it's either that or end up with two keys for the locks, or get my existing locks re-keyed to match whatever R&M sends me.

 

[Muso]

LA Fly Rides on Hollywood blvd. is a first class R&M dealer...super knowledgeable, great crew, Hector their head service guy is brilliant and a wonderful guy. I live in Bellingham, WA and have owned several R&M bikes including 2 Homages and 1 Delite Mountain from them. You are lucky to have them so close. build a good relationship with them and they will take very good care of you at every step in the process.

Oh, man, am I glad to hear that! They are literally a few blocks from me - I could walk there and ride the new bike home

I'll be going there first because they are local so it's good to hear from one of their customers - thanks.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Yes, but I'm looking at kinda the reverse of that. I'm wondering if R&M will match the keyway on the battery and the lock that comes with it to my key code. It's kind of odd, I guess, but it's either that or end up with two keys for the locks, or get my existing locks re-keyed to match whatever R&M sends me.

you did not look close you can buy the lock for the battery there. but you need to know what lock the bike uses there are 3 or for battery locks. you will still need the dealer to install the lock though.

 

[Muso]

you did not look close you can buy the lock for the battery there. but you need to know what lock the bike uses there are 3 or for battery locks. you will still need the dealer to install the lock though.

Hmmm... the page looked like I have to buy new locks to replace the ones I get with the bike, rather than ordering the bike with a specific key code from the factory as I was hoping to do. Unless I missed something. Anyway, it looks like a moot point because apparently the battery can't be keyed with an XPlus code, which is what my U-locks use.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Hmmm... the page looked like I have to buy new locks to replace the ones I get with the bike, rather than ordering the bike with a specific key code from the factory as I was hoping to do. Unless I missed something. Anyway, it looks like a moot point because apparently the battery can't be keyed with an XPlus code, which is what my U-locks use.

I see I doubt thats going to happen its pretty easy to buy the lock its around 30.00 and it would not delay getting your bike.

 

[Muso]

I see I doubt thats going to happen its pretty easy to buy the lock its around 30.00 and it would not delay getting your bike.

True enough - I'll try when I order, but I'll probably have to go that way - I also have Abus locks with the regular Plus (not XPlus) keyway so it would still be handy.

 

[fooferdoggie]

True enough - I'll try when I order, but I'll probably have to go that way - I also have Abus locks with the regular Plus (not XPlus) keyway so it would still be handy.

I have three bikes one with two batteries all have the same key and both my folding locks share that key and my garage lock has the same key. so one key for everything. I have a lot of spare keys since you get two keys per lock.

 

[sammcneill]

I have three bikes one with two batteries all have the same key and both my folding locks share that key and my garage lock has the same key. so one key for everything. I have a lot of spare keys since you get two keys per lock.

Sorry to be slightly off topic, I have two R&M and really liked the keyed alike concept but my LBS couldn’t do it for some reason but…. In the end I wasn’t too upset as I concluded there is risk there - one set of keys lost / stolen provides access to all bikes (including the garage in your case).

Again, I liked the concept but does seem to elevate the risk to all your bikes.

 

[peteh_2]

This is somewhat off-topic but I thought I'd contribute. I also have a Priority Current (Santa Monica) and thoroughly enjoy the bike. I've also visited Fly Rides and have tested a variety of R&M bikes. I liked but didn't love the R&M bikes. Very heavy and just not for me. I have a Zen Premium on order (w/Rohloff E14) that will be delivered shortly. Obs, not full suspension but the front fork is quality (FOX15x110 thru-axle air suspension fork) and it pairs with a Kinect Seat Post (same thing I added to the Current). Now I was an early pre-order customer and got a great price but even at the current price, given the quality of the components, it's a hell of a bang for the buck. Might be worth a look. Cheers!

Oh and Zen can also add any ABUS locks keyed the same as the batteries (or, battery).

 

[fooferdoggie]

Sorry to be slightly off topic, I have two R&M and really liked the keyed alike concept but my LBS couldn’t do it for some reason but…. In the end I wasn’t too upset as I concluded there is risk there - one set of keys lost / stolen provides access to all bikes (including the garage in your case).

Again, I liked the concept but does seem to elevate the risk to all your bikes.

that is a valid argument. but I could change the garage lock if needed. but I only carry a key thats attached to my wallet or on a clip they stay with me well. I have lost my regular keys though.

 

[Muso]

This is somewhat off-topic but I thought I'd contribute. I also have a Priority Current (Santa Monica) and thoroughly enjoy the bike. I've also visited Fly Rides and have tested a variety of R&M bikes. I liked but didn't love the R&M bikes. Very heavy and just not for me. I have a Zen Premium on order (w/Rohloff E14) that will be delivered shortly. Obs, not full suspension but the front fork is quality (FOX15x110 thru-axle air suspension fork) and it pairs with a Kinect Seat Post (same thing I added to the Current). Now I was an early pre-order customer and got a great price but even at the current price, given the quality of the components, it's a hell of a bang for the buck. Might be worth a look. Cheers!

Oh and Zen can also add any ABUS locks keyed the same as the batteries (or, battery).

Yes, that's one reason I definitely want to do some test rides. I'm also curious to see about the overall noise factor on the R&M bikes. The Current is spooky silent with the motor off - the Shimano hub is virtually noiseless so it's kind of peaceful when tottering along on the flats. The Current motor is not too noisy either. It's one of those things where the only way to know is to go try it out.

 

[Muso]

So I booked a test ride - actually I ended up booking two.

First trip, I rode an Homage and a Superdelite, both with the Rohloff. I've been a hubshifter guy since I dumped the derailleur back in the mid-'90s. My '90s townie-style pushbike had a Shimano Inter-7, and my Priority Current has the E-bike 5-speed version of that, so I'm used to them. Man, the Rohloff is nice. Both bikes were not the Large size that I need (I'm 6'4"), but I got a good feel for them. The Superdelite had the Fox suspension option, and it really does float across the bad roads here in Hollywood. I stayed within a block of the shop so there weren't any really bad roads on my test ride, but I took them up on the cracked, crappy cement sidewalks which are really bad - that Fox suspension is nice. I pretty much decided I was going Rohloff/Fox at that point.

Looking at the price difference between the Rohloff and the Enviolo later, I thought I better at least ride an Enviolo before shelling out the $1,550.00 premium for that Rohloff hub though. So I booked another test ride, because, well, I'm less than 10 minutes away from LA Fly Rides by bike so I can.

So I rode back there a few days later and tried the Enviolo bike (I don't recall the exact model, but it was a hardtail R&M). The Enviolo is really nice. It has a wider gear range than my Current, and it's smooth and quiet.

But I live at the bottom of the Hollywood Hills and I like to ride up them. The Rohloff extends the gear range of the Enviolo on both the low and the high end. So I took the Superdelite Rohloff out again for a direct comparison. But this time I said fuggit and instead of staying right by the shop I took it up to the top of Wilton Place and then up Taft, which is Steeeeeep, and Briarcliff, which is steeeeeep and long - and both streets seasoned with good bits of crappiness that jolt me around on my Current. I can get up those hills with the Current (it's a great bike!), but damn, with the Rohloff they were effortless. And the bike just floated over the cracked concrete, crappy patched potholes, and gutters that beat the crap outta me up there. I swear, the streets of LA could almost qualify as "technical trails" in mountain bike parlance lol. The Rohloff feels crisper than the Enviolo. And that gear range! If I lived and rode where there are only moderate hills, the Enviolo would be great - I did like riding with it and it's a lot less money. But for where I'll be doing most of my riding, I'm confident now that the Rohloff is worth the premium. So I'm glad I tried the Enviolo so I won't have to wonder if I made the right choice.

As for the sound from the motor and the hub: Well, it's a motor. Motors make noise lol. Actually, the Bosch motor is fine. It's perceptibly a little quieter than my Priority Current motor, which may be because it either is quieter, or because the sound is a lower pitch. The Rohloff hub makes normal bicycle noises - a light ratcheting sound like my 10-speed used to make. I guess it's louder than my Shimano hub (which doesn't make any noise), but I don't find it bothersome. At anything over about 10mph the wind noise drowns it out anyway. IMHO, noise complaints about this bike are overblown.

So yeah, that second test ride settled it. I put in an order for a Delite Rohloff HS with the GX and Fox options. It is a truly superb bike. I opted to have it shipped by sea (free!), since I'm dropping so much cash on this thing I had to economize somewhere hahahaha. I have a bike that I love right now, so I can wait. In fact, it will hurt to sell my Priority Current (I don't have room for 2 bikes), but the Delite is in a whole other class.

Unfortunately*, LA Fly Rides Hollywood is moving to Calabasas, about 20 miles west of here. In fact, last Friday (23 September) was their last day in Hollywood. They were getting the bikes ready to move when I was there for my second test ride last Wednesday. Before they told me they were moving, I was really pleased that I would be able to walk there to pick up my bike and ride it home, and have a proper R&M service shop so close I could push my bike back there if I had to. Alas, it is not to be. But at least I had the very good fortune to be able to test ride the bikes in my own neighborhood, on the streets where I ride regularly, before plunking down the hefty sum for one of these Überbikes.

So now the order's in, and now I wait...




*It seems I'm the only one who's disappointed that Fly Rides is leaving Hollywood. They explained that most of their business is in mountain bikes, and there's more mountain biking out by Calabasas than in Hollywood (unless you want to consider the Hollywood Hills sort of a paved mountain lol). And none of the employees lives around here. They were a bit diplomatic about the neighborhood (it is right on Hollywood Boulevard and St. Andrews Pl.), but I have a feeling that clearing the street denizens from the front door and hosing down the vestibule with bleach every morning was not a popular task either... I've lived in Hollywood for 40 years so I've seen the ebb and flow here and I'm kinda used to it lol. Nevertheless, I'm glad I at least got to do my test rides right here where I ride regularly - that was awesome! When I was placing my order, they said they were getting a call later for an order from a guy in Georgia! So I guess I can't complain about driving 20 miles to Calabasas to pick it up. If Georgia Guy is reading this, I did your test rides for you and you're gonna love your Riese and Müller!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you for your interesting review Muso!

 

[Walter van Dusen]

So I booked a test ride - actually I ended up booking two.

First trip, I rode an Homage and a Superdelite, both with the Rohloff. I've been a hubshifter guy since I dumped the derailleur back in the mid-'90s. My '90s townie-style pushbike had a Shimano Inter-7, and my Priority Current has the E-bike 5-speed version of that, so I'm used to them. Man, the Rohloff is nice. Both bikes were not the Large size that I need (I'm 6'4"), but I got a good feel for them. The Superdelite had the Fox suspension option, and it really does float across the bad roads here in Hollywood. I stayed within a block of the shop so there weren't any really bad roads on my test ride, but I took them up on the cracked, crappy cement sidewalks which are really bad - that Fox suspension is nice. I pretty much decided I was going Rohloff/Fox at that point.

Looking at the price difference between the Rohloff and the Enviolo later, I thought I better at least ride an Enviolo before shelling out the $1,550.00 premium for that Rohloff hub though. So I booked another test ride, because, well, I'm less than 10 minutes away from LA Fly Rides by bike so I can.

So I rode back there a few days later and tried the Enviolo bike (I don't recall the exact model, but it was a hardtail R&M). The Enviolo is really nice. It has a wider gear range than my Current, and it's smooth and quiet.

But I live at the bottom of the Hollywood Hills and I like to ride up them. The Rohloff extends the gear range of the Enviolo on both the low and the high end. So I took the Superdelite Rohloff out again for a direct comparison. But this time I said fuggit and instead of staying right by the shop I took it up to the top of Wilton Place and then up Taft, which is Steeeeeep, and Briarcliff, which is steeeeeep and long - and both streets seasoned with good bits of crappiness that jolt me around on my Current. I can get up those hills with the Current (it's a great bike!), but damn, with the Rohloff they were effortless. And the bike just floated over the cracked concrete, crappy patched potholes, and gutters that beat the crap outta me up there. I swear, the streets of LA could almost qualify as "technical trails" in mountain bike parlance lol. The Rohloff feels crisper than the Enviolo. And that gear range! If I lived and rode where there are only moderate hills, the Enviolo would be great - I did like riding with it and it's a lot less money. But for where I'll be doing most of my riding, I'm confident now that the Rohloff is worth the premium. So I'm glad I tried the Enviolo so I won't have to wonder if I made the right choice.

As for the sound from the motor and the hub: Well, it's a motor. Motors make noise lol. Actually, the Bosch motor is fine. It's perceptibly a little quieter than my Priority Current motor, which may be because it either is quieter, or because the sound is a lower pitch. The Rohloff hub makes normal bicycle noises - a light ratcheting sound like my 10-speed used to make. I guess it's louder than my Shimano hub (which doesn't make any noise), but I don't find it bothersome. At anything over about 10mph the wind noise drowns it out anyway. IMHO, noise complaints about this bike are overblown.

So yeah, that second test ride settled it. I put in an order for a Delite Rohloff HS with the GX and Fox options. It is a truly superb bike. I opted to have it shipped by sea (free!), since I'm dropping so much cash on this thing I had to economize somewhere hahahaha. I have a bike that I love right now, so I can wait. In fact, it will hurt to sell my Priority Current (I don't have room for 2 bikes), but the Delite is in a whole other class.

Unfortunately*, LA Fly Rides Hollywood is moving to Calabasas, about 20 miles west of here. In fact, last Friday (23 September) was their last day in Hollywood. They were getting the bikes ready to move when I was there for my second test ride last Wednesday. Before they told me they were moving, I was really pleased that I would be able to walk there to pick up my bike and ride it home, and have a proper R&M service shop so close I could push my bike back there if I had to. Alas, it is not to be. But at least I had the very good fortune to be able to test ride the bikes in my own neighborhood, on the streets where I ride regularly, before plunking down the hefty sum for one of these Überbikes.

So now the order's in, and now I wait...




*It seems I'm the only one who's disappointed that Fly Rides is leaving Hollywood. They explained that most of their business is in mountain bikes, and there's more mountain biking out by Calabasas than in Hollywood (unless you want to consider the Hollywood Hills sort of a paved mountain lol). And none of the employees lives around here. They were a bit diplomatic about the neighborhood (it is right on Hollywood Boulevard and St. Andrews Pl.), but I have a feeling that clearing the street denizens from the front door and hosing down the vestibule with bleach every morning was not a popular task either... I've lived in Hollywood for 40 years so I've seen the ebb and flow here and I'm kinda used to it lol. Nevertheless, I'm glad I at least got to do my test rides right here where I ride regularly - that was awesome! When I was placing my order, they said they were getting a call later for an order from a guy in Georgia! So I guess I can't complain about driving 20 miles to Calabasas to pick it up. If Georgia Guy is reading this, I did your test rides for you and you're gonna love your Riese and Müller!

You'll be very happy with your Delite with Rohloff E14. Why didn't you go for the Superdelite with Rohloff E14 if you have a lot of hills where you live? I ride the Homage and Superdelite both with Rohloff E14 and have no range anxiety with plenty of battery to get my plus size body up hills.

 

[Neville Welsh]

Congratulations Muso! Really looking forward to seing photos of the bike.