Riese & Müller : Reliability & Support

[steve mercier]

My rack bridge plate broke again on my R+M Charger. I know the drill now so I rode to my LBS and asked the service manager to take a pic and start another warranty claim. It is still under warranty for another 4 months so I am sure they eventually will send my LBS another replacement and in time it too will no doubt crack. Bottom line is that this is a design flaw. I have another good bike now so there is no smoke coming out of my ears . It is a overall a very good bike but if you expect perfection for your money you may be let down.

 

[Bruiser]

My rack bridge plate broke again on my R+M Charger. I know the drill now so I rode to my LBS and asked the service manager to take a pic and start another warranty claim. It is still under warranty for another 4 months so I am sure they eventually will send my LBS another replacement and in time it too will no doubt crack. Bottom line is that this is a design flaw. I have another good bike now so there is no smoke coming out of my ears . It is a overall a very good bike but if you expect perfection for your money you may be let down.View attachment 55880

Hi Steve. That looks very unsatisfactory. Forgive me if I am being obtuse, was it the mounting plate on the frame or on the rack itself that broke? Also do you know if the broken component is steel or aluminium? The reason I ask is because if it is the rack, and it is made of steel, do you think just beefing up the bracket would solve the problem? In your view what is it about the design leads to the component failure? I am genuinely curious about this. I do a (very) small amount of hobbyist metal fabricating and welding at home. I have made pannier frames for a few different motor bikes I’ve owned. I have noticed aftermarket motorbike pannier frames can be pretty light on. So I am wondering if this is the problem here.

 

[Bruiser]

You also mostly hear here from people with problems with them, i'm sure not many people that have had zero problems come onto this forum to say "hey this is great, nothing has gone wrong for xx years/months". If it ain't broke, don't complain about it!
Not sure how many R&M's with E14's have been produced in the last year or 2 but with them producing 200+ bikes per day i''d say it would be a few, narrow that down to outside the EU...

I agree that this is the tendency with a lot of forums. I am also a motorcyclist. On the Advrider forum you could easily believe a lot of bikes are rolling grenades just waiting to go off. So it pays to be cautious about extrapolating a few bad experiences to a whole brand or model range. Having said that, I am still inclined to go down the derailleur path. I like the relative simplicity of the derailleur system. If you maintain your bike and carry a spare derailleur hanger for off road riding, you should be able to manage any shifting issues that arise without too much pain.

 

[webcurl]

The broken rack plate looks to be a pre Charger3 version. Racks have been re-designed & beefed up on the Charger3 & Supercharger2.

Dual battery 1125Wh appears to be available on the Superdelite & Charger3, not currently on the Supercharger2 (may be because of frame geometries, etc.).

As for R&M Rohloff reliability, I have a R&M SC1 (original Supercharger) GX (Rohloff) with manual shift (2 cables coming from the twist shift on the handlebars to the external gear mech of the Rohloff), i like and am used to the twist shift & like it very much. I presume i can shift between 1 to 4 gears at a time faster than the E14.
If i were to buy another R&M now, it would be Rohloff with Gates Carbon Drive and if i chose to stick with the E14 then i would construct protection guards for the shifting cables/mech.
But more likely i would (costly) remove the E14 mech, get a Bosch certified mechanic to remove E14 from the electrical system and install a Rohloff external gear mech and pass through 2 cables from the handlebars where a twist shifter would replace the buttons.
So instead of this: https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/e-14/

These:

Rohloff Twist Shifter Light for Speedhub 500/14 - 2016

Twist shifter for Rohloff Speedhub 500/14. Fits on handle bars with 22,0 - 22,3mm diameter. Available for left or right side.

www.bike24.com

Rohloff Shift Cable Set

Rohloff ▶ Complete shifting cable set with housings and shifting cables for the Speedhub 500/14 gear hub.

www.bike24.com

Rohloff Cable box EX

Cable box for the external gear mech of the Rohloff Speedhub 500/14.

www.bike24.com

and maybe this: https://www.bike24.com/p235419.html?q=rohloff
Might need different grips too!
As i said, costly
And i don't even know if it can be done or if 2 cables can be put through the new frames.

 

[steve mercier]

Hi Steve. That looks very unsatisfactory. Forgive me if I am being obtuse, was it the mounting plate on the frame or on the rack itself that broke? Also do you know if the broken component is steel or aluminium? The reason I ask is because if it is the rack, and it is made of steel, do you think just beefing up the bracket would solve the problem? In your view what is it about the design leads to the component failure? I am genuinely curious about this. I do a (very) small amount of hobbyist metal fabricating and welding at home. I have made pannier frames for a few different motor bikes I’ve owned. I have noticed aftermarket motorbike pannier frames can be pretty light on. So I am wondering if this is the problem here.

HI Bruiser. It is the connecting plate that bridges between the rack and frame. The first one was aluminum and this replacement was steel. The rack is rated at 25kg and I never approached that. When this one broke I had 2 batteries and some clothing on it. I do not know why it breaks. I can theorize that there is too much vibration etc... but I am not a mechanical engineer. The bike has 21,000 km on it so they have lasted on average about 10,000 before breaking.

 

[Bruiser]

HI Bruiser. It is the connecting plate that bridges between the rack and frame. The first one was aluminum and this replacement was steel. The rack is rated at 25kg and I never approachd that. When this one broke I had 2 batteries and some clothing. I do not know why it breaks. I can theorize that there is too much vibration etc... but I am not an mechanical engineer. The bike has 21,000 km on it so they last on average about 10,000 before breaking.

Hi Steve thanks for the reply. Just looking at the photo it looks to me like the plate is only supported by two bolts near the fracture point. Plus there are no washers underneath to spread the load. If there is movement/vibration at a pivot point, then clearly the metal fatigues over time. Although you shouldn’t have to, it looks like the design could be rectified with thicker plate steel. That‘s just speculation on my part though.

 

[steve mercier]

Hi Steve thanks for the reply. Just looking at the photo it looks to me like the plate is only supported by two bolts near the fracture point. Plus there are no washers underneath to spread the load. If there is movement/vibration at a pivot point, then clearly the metal fatigues over time. Although you shouldn’t have to, it looks like the design could be rectified with thicker plate steel. That‘s just speculation on my part though.

Yes when it breaks next time my son will own the bike by then and he can deal with it (-:

 

[webcurl]

Similar things have happened to the Supercharger. But as i said the new Supercharger and Charger have completely different racks & rack mounts.
Translate this thread if you wish:

Riese & Müller Charger/Supercharger Gepäckträgerbrüche - sonstige(s)

Damit man mal eine Übersicht über die Anzahl der Brüche hat, bitte keine Diskussion, sondern lediglich Bilder und kurze Info zum Bruch der Streben oder zum Bruch des Schloßhalters. Im anderen Thread geht das unter. Wäre schön, wenn die Betroffenen sich hier kurz verewigen würden...

www.pedelecforum.de

 

[jim6b]

Yes I believe he did. He posts in this thread
Our Rides in Words, Photos, Videos & Maps

Really? How would one know? And if one knew, to search through how many posts?

 

[steve mercier]

Similar things have happened to the Supercharger. But as i said the new Supercharger and Charger have completely different racks & rack mounts.
Translate this thread if you wish:

Riese & Müller Charger/Supercharger Gepäckträgerbrüche - sonstige(s)

Damit man mal eine Übersicht über die Anzahl der Brüche hat, bitte keine Diskussion, sondern lediglich Bilder und kurze Info zum Bruch der Streben oder zum Bruch des Schloßhalters. Im anderen Thread geht das unter. Wäre schön, wenn die Betroffenen sich hier kurz verewigen würden...

www.pedelecforum.de

Really? How would one know? And if one knew, to search through how many posts?

Just look at the most recent pics and you will see him and his bikes. Or click on members and look at his latest activity. David Berry is a prolific contributer!

 

[jim6b]

That's not question presented by the op in this thread.

 

[steve mercier]

That's not question presented by the op in this thread.

I am sorry I do not understand. David Berry is the OP. David Berry has subsequently posted pics of his homage on many cycling trips under the thread OUR RIDES IN WORDS PHOTOS VIDEOS AND MAPS .... That is why I answered your question which was " Have to wonder whether the op ever got his bike fixed? "

 

[steve mercier]

Similar things have happened to the Supercharger. But as i said the new Supercharger and Charger have completely different racks & rack mounts.
Translate this thread if you wish:

Riese & Müller Charger/Supercharger Gepäckträgerbrüche - sonstige(s)

Damit man mal eine Übersicht über die Anzahl der Brüche hat, bitte keine Diskussion, sondern lediglich Bilder und kurze Info zum Bruch der Streben oder zum Bruch des Schloßhalters. Im anderen Thread geht das unter. Wäre schön, wenn die Betroffenen sich hier kurz verewigen würden...

www.pedelecforum.de

I can say that if I were to replace my Charger with another hardtail I would give Moustache a try this time ,replacing the GT tour with a similarly equipped 2019 Samedi Xroad 7 https://www.fullycharged.com/moustache-samedi-27-xroad-7-ebike-2019 since it has the identical Bosch motor and powerpack. These bikes are assembled in France and the overall quality appears very good after the first 1,000 km.

 

[jim6b]

Thanks for explanation. A clarification the "how of it" was my focus, should have been clearer.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Akrotiri]

A Superdelite (warm silver matt) I just ordered is available for pickup at my local bike shop and I was informed the paint is chipped in certain places, what should I do? Small chips but it will only get worse. Has anyone successfully color-matched this color? Does R&M have a touch-up sku? $11K is Rolls Royce pricing for an e-bike and I expected it to arrive pristine, regardless of how much I mess up the finish while riding in the future.

That doesn't look like $11k welding either.

 

[webcurl]

That doesn't look like $11k welding either.

They do give a 5 year warranty on the frame though.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Once again my Homage, a beautiful but seriously flawed ebike, is kaput. I've lost count of how many times this bike has suddenly stopped in the middle of a ride! Error Code 532 this time.

Breaking down seems to be what my Riese & Müller's Homage does best – especially when it is ridden on the rough tracks that it's Control Technology suspension was designed to smooth out!

All of my Homage's woes relate to electrical connection problems which, I think, are properly attributable to R&M rather than to Bosch or Rohloff.

To me appears that piggybacking a second battery on the loose-fitting lid of the primary battery compartment was a catastrophic design blunder. Why didn't R&M position the downtube battery's cover on the side – even underneath the down tube – like most other makers do? Or put the second battery on the pannier rack?

Distance ridden: 17,600 km.

 

[webcurl]

Once again my Homage, a beautiful but seriously flawed ebike, is kaput. I've lost count of how many times this bike has suddenly stopped in the middle of a ride! Error Code 532 this time.

Performance: Fehlercode 532 - (keine Unterstützung mehr) - sonstige(s)

Hallo zusammen, ich fahre bei jedem Wetter mit meinem zwei Jahre alten Bosch-Pedelec mit Powerpack 400. Zuverlässig dann, wenn es richtig kalt wird (ab ca. 0 Grad nachts abwärts) bekomme ich folgendes Fehlerverhalten: - Akku wird beim Hochfahren mitunter garnicht erkannt. Mehrfaches aus- und...

www.pedelecforum.de

 

[E-Wheels]

Once again my Homage, a beautiful but seriously flawed ebike, is kaput. I've lost count of how many times this bike has suddenly stopped in the middle of a ride! Error Code 532 this time.

Breaking down seems to be what my Riese & Müller's Homage does best – especially when it is ridden on the rough tracks that it's Control Technology suspension was designed to smooth out!

All of my Homage's woes relate to electrical connection problems which, I think, are properly attributable to R&M rather than to Bosch or Rohloff. Significantly, no failure has been covered by warranty. I stress 'significantly' because the theme of this thread is reliability and support and, in my experience, these are deficient.

To me appears that piggybacking a second battery on the loose-fitting lid of the primary battery compartment was a catastrophic design blunder. Why didn't R&M position the downtube battery's cover on the side – even underneath the down tube – like most other makers do? Or put the second battery on the pannier rack?

I think it's time to pay Giant, Specialized or Trek a visit.

Distance ridden: 17,600 km.

Given the problems you have had with your R&M, are you staying with the Bosch system on your next ebike

 

[steve mercier]

Once again my Homage, a beautiful but seriously flawed ebike, is kaput. I've lost count of how many times this bike has suddenly stopped in the middle of a ride! Error Code 532 this time.

Breaking down seems to be what my Riese & Müller's Homage does best – especially when it is ridden on the rough tracks that it's Control Technology suspension was designed to smooth out!

All of my Homage's woes relate to electrical connection problems which, I think, are properly attributable to R&M rather than to Bosch or Rohloff. Significantly, no failure has been covered by warranty. I stress 'significantly' because the theme of this thread is reliability and support and, in my experience, these are deficient.

To me appears that piggybacking a second battery on the loose-fitting lid of the primary battery compartment was a catastrophic design blunder. Why didn't R&M position the downtube battery's cover on the side – even underneath the down tube – like most other makers do? Or put the second battery on the pannier rack?

I think it's time to pay Giant, Specialized or Trek a visit.

Distance ridden: 17,600 km.

David ,so sorry to hear it. Please consider the Moustache lineup if they are available to you in Australia. These bikes are designed and assembled in France. https://moustachebikes.com/en/electric-bikes/