New Riese and Müller Delite Review

[Jay Kay]

There's something in what you're saying...

Sam, are you riding any significant hills or mountains there in NZ? How does your R&M perform there? Just curious.

Sam will have ridden some good hills given he rides the Port Hills in Christchurch.

I've ridden up the World's steepest street, here in Dunedin NZ, with my Rohloff fitted Superdelite Mountain - better climbing gear ratio than the standard Superdelite. I didn't even get out of my saddle! 85kg rider.

No leaks on my Rohloff either

 

[Neville Welsh]

I've ridden up the World's steepest street, here in Dunedin NZ, with my Rohloff fitted Superdelite Mountain - better climbing gear ratio than the standard Superdelite. I didn't even get out of my saddle! 85kg rider.

Is that due to different sprockets?

 

[Chibbie]

Thanks for the elaboration on chain/derailleur vs. belt/hub. Sounds like folks are in favor of one or the other depending on their needs and preferences. If I had to make a decision today, I’d be torn: the convenience and simplicity of maintenance of the hub (and ability to shift gears at a standstill) are all very appealing. Then again, if I were to get a Delite, I wouldn’t be using it for real off-roading and such (I have no interest in that, at least not presently nor in the past), so that advantage of the hub/belt setup in terms of keeping muck out is irrelevant for me; and the livelier ride and shifting of chain/derailleur vs. hub/belt is very appealing, as is the fact that anyone with simple tools and enough knowledge can fix a chain/derailleur (probably even lil ol’ me, with enough time and guidance; but more importantly, any LBS).

 

[sammcneill]

Sam, are you riding any significant hills or mountains there in NZ? How does your R&M perform there? Just curious.

There are big mountains in NZ but I don't ride in those specifically. There are some "hills" near me, around 350-400m elevation with biggest incline 15% in places. SC2 charges up there fine on the road - it's incredibly stable coming down off those too - hit 70kph downhill and felt fine given the weight and width of tires.

My Specialized Turbo Levo eMTB goes up the same hill much easier given it's lighter.

 

[sammcneill]

Sam will have ridden some good hills given he rides the Port Hills in Christchurch.

I've ridden up the World's steepest street, here in Dunedin NZ, with my Rohloff fitted Superdelite Mountain - better climbing gear ratio than the standard Superdelite. I didn't even get out of my saddle! 85kg rider.

No leaks on my Rohloff either

yes, spot on - the "creatively" named Port Hills is what I referred to above - not a mountain but definitely steep in places. Not Baldwin Street steep (my daughter is flatting just down the road from there on North Road) but still steep enough you'd want some low gears if you're not going to go up in turbo.

The easy repair anywhere approach of chain/derailleur is definitely a consideration - the reality is if I was going to be biking in some parts of the world I'd want a bike that ANYONE can fix and that's just not the case for hubs/belts so you'd need to plan around that.

interestingly, there is an NZ brand mountain bike company that uses Pinion mid drive hubs and belts:

The Sound of Silence - Zerode Belt drive — Zerode Bikes

Super interesting as this does tend to add more weight, but given the Pinion is centered instead of in the rear wheel means it's distributed better. I've not ridden one but some friends that have reckon they're great!

I think the future of eBikes will definitely be middrive motors with gears in them rather than hubs/derailleurs in the rear wheel....

 

[CyclingDan]

And they have a sporty feel compared to the other transmission options.

That’s good to know. I‘ll probably get a e-mtb for rougher rides, got my eye on a Trek Rail or something like that, but they’re all chain. I can’t find a gear hub dedicated mtb (other than the Super/Delite which to me seems more of an all rounder)

Interesting about the Rohloff oil leak - didn’t know about that. I’ve just heard how bomb proof they are … Rohloff has a FAQ about it

The way that the bicycle is stored may help ease the oils escape in certain circumstances. If the bicycle leans to one side, the entire oil weight can collect over one seal and then, depending upon temperature and machine tolerances, force its way out of the hub. In addition, if a bicycle is transported in a lying position, the oil could escape through this same process. It is also quite possible for oil to get caught between the two lips of the hub seal and then easily escape many hours after the bicycle has been righted again.

This is reasonable, there are going to be mfg tolerances and in a device this small you can’t have big margins on your seals. And putting it in perspective if anybody complaints they’re forgetting that the other choice is a chain which is leaking by design (and picking up dirt in the gearing mechanism while you drive to boot.)

The easy repair anywhere approach of chain/derailleur is definitely a consideration - the reality is if I was going to be biking in some parts of the world I'd want a bike that ANYONE can fix and that's just not the case for hubs/belts so you'd need to plan around that.

CYCLINGABOUT on YouTube is a well known Australian bike tourer who goes everwhere, I mean everywhere in the world on his bike. He swears by an only rides a Rohloff hub on a Koga with belt, and has many videos on how (he believes) it’s superior to all else for world touring. Gets quite nerd in depth for entertaining videos. Separately I found a website of a guy using a Superdelite (or maybe a Delite or a Charger) from Paris to the edge of China. He did have a Bosch issue which necessitated flying back to Paris (from Jordan or somewhere) as that was the closest authorized shop to fix it under warrantee.

 

[sammcneill]

That’s good to know. I‘ll probably get a e-mtb for rougher rides, got my eye on a Trek Rail or something like that, but they’re all chain. I can’t find a gear hub dedicated mtb (other than the Super/Delite which to me seems more of an all rounder)

Interesting about the Rohloff oil leak - didn’t know about that. I’ve just heard how bomb proof they are … Rohloff has a FAQ about it



This is reasonable, there are going to be mfg tolerances and in a device this small you can’t have big margins on your seals. And putting it in perspective if anybody complaints they’re forgetting that the other choice is a chain which is leaking by design (and picking up dirt in the gearing mechanism while you drive to boot.)

I was unaware of that "on a lean" theory which might explain why I don't have a leak (yet!) on my gravel bike - It does not have a kick stand so I lean it against a wall in my garage so it's pretty upright the entire time.

 

[Muso]

I was unaware of that "on a lean" theory which might explain why I don't have a leak (yet!) on my gravel bike - It does not have a kick stand so I lean it against a wall in my garage so it's pretty upright the entire time.

No leaks from mine either - but then again it's new. It doesn't seem like a widespread problem, but that is no consolation to those it happens to. My kickstand is set fairly straight up, too. There's another theory about using less oil to fill it - something like 12ml instead of 25ml or something like that. Apparently it needs even less for full lubrication and the rest is just there to quiet things down a bit.

 

[Muso]

And.....the price was about $1500 !! higher for the Rohloff.

Cripes, it's a bloody expensive bit, innit? I was thinking about the GT, but again, me and derailleurs lol. I considered the Enviolo, and I even test rode one and liked it, but I wanted more gear range and a firmer-feeling driveline. If I were buying my delite for "town and country," that is, no steep 10-15% + hills, I probably would have gone with the Enviolo, saved a heap of money, and been very happy. It's a nice setup. The Rohloff felt crisp and has a bit wider range than either, and I'm used to riding hub shifters. So I looked at the price tag, wept, said fuggit, and placed the order lol.

But it sounds like you haven't had any of the issues that I worried about with the derailleur/chain setup, so I guess they've come a long way (like everything else) in the last 30 years!

 

[Rider777]

Cripes, it's a bloody expensive bit, innit? I was thinking about the GT, but again, me and derailleurs lol. I considered the Enviolo, and I even test rode one and liked it, but I wanted more gear range and a firmer-feeling driveline. If I were buying my delite for "town and country," that is, no steep 10-15% + hills, I probably would have gone with the Enviolo, saved a heap of money, and been very happy. It's a nice setup. The Rohloff felt crisp and has a bit wider range than either, and I'm used to riding hub shifters. So I looked at the price tag, wept, said fuggit, and placed the order lol.

But it sounds like you haven't had any of the issues that I worried about with the derailleur/chain setup, so I guess they've come a long way (like everything else) in the last 30 years!

Yes no issues with the derailleur setup but I do keep the chain clean, replace worn components early, and ride in the desert southwest.
Also......about the ride feel: In addition to the sporty feel, there is also a more direct drive feel to your pedal inputs vs. the Rohloff that I test rode. It's very noticeable IMO. The Rohloff feel is like you're pedaling in light syrup....not heavy.....light. True!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

. I can’t find a gear hub dedicated mtb

Rohloff:

• Less efficient than the chain/derailleur
• Heavy, with wrong weight distribution
• Harder to do any field repair of the rear wheel (a flat)
• Probably susceptible to things that could be picked up and entangled into the drivetrain such as little twigs. It is easy to remove such things on the chain/derailleur system
• If anything goes wrong, hard to find a mechanic to fix the things while the chain/derailleur can be fixed by anyone.

Yes, there are bikepackers who have travelled for half of the world with Rohloff, also on R&M e-bike. However, you will never find a Rohloff on a gravel bike used in ultramarathon races. Your gravel bike weighs 9 kg, you have added a lot of cargo such as several bidons, a saddle bag, a handlebar bag etc, are to ride for 550 km and hopefully win the race and now what? Adding a heavy Rohloff when you often need to lift your gravel bike and carry it through a creek being immersed to your waist in water, or negotiate a huge fallen tree? Come on

 

[sammcneill]

Probably susceptible to things that could be picked up and entangled into the drivetrain such as little twigs. It is easy to remove such things on the chain/derailleur system

Stefan, you’re right on most things but I disagree on this.

Running a belt and Rohloff on my gravel bike there is just no chance of things getting stuck anywhere in the drive train that would be harder to remove than on a chain / derailleur system. On my eMTB I routinely get bits of grass / weeds / twigs in the chain links, in the derailleur wheels, even between the rotors in the cassette… this just can’t happen with a belt / Rohloff.

Keep riding

 

[Ben J]

Thanks for this review. So many R&M "reviews" are just dealers reading out spec sheets. I especially appreciate yours because you bought it for all the reasons I would, and found it to be all the things I hoped it would be.

One question: I saw elsewhere you asked if the HS can be "derated" to 20MPH to be a class 1 bike in situations where that's useful/necessary legally. I didn't see an answer, but I do see you got the HS. Is there a setting to limit the speed? Or did you just decide to go with the HS anyway?

 

[Jay Kay]

Is that due to different sprockets?

Most likely. I was going off the metrics R&M use to define the distance travelled.

1.9m to 10.15m per pedal rotation for the Superdelite, compared to 1.57m to 8.4m on the SD Mountain.

 

[Jay Kay]

I was unaware of that "on a lean" theory which might explain why I don't have a leak (yet!) on my gravel bike - It does not have a kick stand so I lean it against a wall in my garage so it's pretty upright the entire time.

My SD Mountain has no kickstand either, so I have become an expert of placing my bike just so it balances perfectly against anything taller than 30cm

 

[Muso]

Thanks for this review. So many R&M "reviews" are just dealers reading out spec sheets. I especially appreciate yours because you bought it for all the reasons I would, and found it to be all the things I hoped it would be.

One question: I saw elsewhere you asked if the HS can be "derated" to 20MPH to be a class 1 bike in situations where that's useful/necessary legally. I didn't see an answer, but I do see you got the HS. Is there a setting to limit the speed? Or did you just decide to go with the HS anyway?

I went with the HS anyway. There are only a few places here that mandate Class 1, and there is no outward indication, or indication on the display, whether it is Class 1 or 3 - the two models are identical-looking. So I just ride wherever and stay under 20mph/32Km/h if Class 1 is required. Which is not a problem b/c that's actually pretty fast. I only go faster than that on streets with cars, which is why I got the HS. Switching between the two would be a nice feature to add, though, and I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to do in the Nyon computer.

 

[CyclingDan]

Yes, there are bikepackers who have travelled for half of the world with Rohloff, also on R&M e-bike. However, you will never find a Rohloff on a gravel bike used in ultramarathon races.

Agreed, nobody would argue that anything but a derailleur is best for racing because as you say every ounce and % efficiency. But for reliability hub gears appear to be tops, a chain/derailleur will easily gunk up/get wedged while belt/gear hubs go right through it.

However I’m looking for an e-mtb gear hub and belt because I‘d like a mtb that won’t get gunked up. But it appears to be non existent except for the Delites, which are probably good MTB’s but not great, and for my taste too fancy to take out anyhow on a trail where they might get roughed up.

If I decide to do more MTB I’ll get a dedicated (chain) emtb.

 

[CyclingDan]

Dumb question: why do many bike bags have built-in bags? Meaning an inner lining that can nominally carry more stuff (it heightens the bag with the top of the outer bag unzipped), but then the lid of the bag won’t zipper down and flops around, and otherwise they take up more space and are a messy solution it seems to me. I got this Basil bag for the bike that has this inner lining that is another bag, and just seems like a weird solution that makes things harder.

How am I supposed to work with this? One side of the inner bag has a zipper to nothing - just the space between the inner and outer bag, for what reason? And half of the upper edge of the inner bag is a stiff material that keeps a hard edge and doesn’t bend too much.

I got a Basil pannier which is a similar deal.

 

[Muso]

Dumb question: why do many bike bags have built-in bags? Meaning an inner lining that can nominally carry more stuff (it heightens the bag with the top of the outer bag unzipped), but then the lid of the bag won’t zipper down and flops around, and otherwise they take up more space and are a messy solution it seems to me. I got this Basil bag for the bike that has this inner lining that is another bag, and just seems like a weird solution that makes things harder.

How am I supposed to work with this? One side of the inner bag has a zipper to nothing - just the space between the inner and outer bag, for what reason? And half of the upper edge of the inner bag is a stiff material that keeps a hard edge and doesn’t bend too much.

My Basil panniers have that - the stiff part is to roll up and fold over. It's for waterproofing, I assume.

 

[Muso]

300 mile (483Km) Update: Even after sustaining the Force 5 hurricane in my mailbox (the credit card bill lol) and writing the check... I still bloody love this bike! It opens everything up to me. Long rides, short rides, crazy steep hills, terrible roads, train tracks, whatever, I can go anywhere on this thing. Took it in to the shop for the free checkup/inspection/torque&tension check last weekend, and it's pretty much bedded in. I have the seat and handlebars, brake levers, shifter, shocks, etc. all set just the way I like now. Zero problems, all brilliant.

Some notes, having had it for a couple of months now: No problems at all with der Rohloff. The thing's not even broken in yet. No leaks, no problems. And I love it. The gearing is so wide that I could get home even with a dead battery - just slower. 1st gear is crazy low for most hills even without assist, and 14th makes for a pleasant cadence even at top assist speed of 28mph/45kph. Fox suspension is great. I can't compare it to the standard suspension, but I can say I've run it locked out on nice roads, medium on typical city streets, and fully open on crappy roads and dirt roads, and it has performed superbly. I like the adjustability. Brakes: Awesome. I have total confidence. Battery has plenty of juice. I'm not even thinking about getting a second one yet, up to 35-mile/56Km hilly rides no problem. On flat terrain I could easily go far more. Tires - the Johnny Watts tires are great, but I think I'll opt for the Marathons when the knobbly tires wear out. I don't do enough mud and muck, and I'd rather have the smoother tires that will still do fine on dirt roads. Overall - this bike is totally solid. No rattles, totally solid, confident feel. The only stuff that rattles is the various junk I put in my bags.

300 miles in 2 months is really nothing compared to what some of the hardcore types do, but so far all is good. I'm still working out a route to my office. It's only 13 miles/21Km each way, but finding a route off the major car streets has been a bit vexing. Once that's sorted, there's another 500+ miles/month lol.

Anyway, I am pleased. Or as my friends from Jolly Old Blighty would say, I'm chuffed to the bollocks! It was a major purchase for sure, but no buyer's remorse whatsoever. This is a helluva bike.