2021–2022 Riese & Müller Homage

[BMWzenRider]

Thanks for sharing your thoughtful posts. I had no idea about eMTB mode and how it differed from the other modes. I am learning every day.

I primarily went with a class 1 because I currently have a class 3 but I almost never ride faster than 20 mph unless going down hill and for your reason, more places to ride and not worry about class 3 restrictions. I hope I don't regret that decision when my bike comes in (3 more months. ugh), but I don't think so. I look forward to your posts about your experiences and pictures here.

You can read more about it here:
Bosch eBike eMTB Mode

 

[Jim Cook]

This summer and fall I plan to ride some multi-day rail/canal trail rides. GAP, Ohio to Erie Trail, and C&O etc. I don't plan to camp, but stay in lodging along the way so I can pack light. Some of the trip segments are 60+ miles and that is what motivated me towards the dual battery version.

I plan to add some panniers and Tannus tire liners. Anyone have Tannus on their ebike and can share their experience?

 

[Jim Cook]

But I do enjoy letting the bike automatically manage the assistance level, which gives one less thing to think about for all but the steepest & longest hills (when I switch to Turbo).

The document you pointed me to says that eMTB automatically switches between tour and turbo as needed. Why would you ever switch into turbo mode?

Does this mean that if you have eMTB mode, you lose sport mode?

I currently have a class 3 Bosch which has eco, tour, sport, and turbo modes, so I understand how those work and how they feel when riding. The eMTB I am still trying to wrap my head around, but it seems cool.

 

[JVBulman]

Yes, eMTB replaces Sport when enabled.

eMTB doesn't switch through modes the way pressing the controller does, rather it utilizes a wider window of assist power that overlaps the windows you would typically find in Sport and Turbo. What you get as a result is something that's a bit more responsive based on your input in terms of the assist provided.

 

[Jim Cook]

Yes, eMTB replaces Sport when enabled.

eMTB doesn't switch through modes the way pressing the controller does, rather it utilizes a wider window of assist power that overlaps the windows you would typically find in Sport and Turbo. What you get as a result is something that's a bit more responsive based on your input in terms of the assist provided.

Seems like it is awesome then. On flat surfaces I usually ride in tour (or eco if I want a little more of a workout), and only on hills do I go higher. So this seems like a perfect solution. Based on one of your previous posts... I see calculated that you can get 80+ miles in emtb mode (of course dependent on terrain). So that makes me confident in my decision on the dual battery. Thanks again for sharing your experience and expertise.

 

[JVBulman]

Seems like it is awesome then. On flat surfaces I usually ride in tour (or eco if I want a little more of a workout), and only on hills do I go higher. So this seems like a perfect solution. Based on one of your previous posts... I see calculated that you can get 80+ miles in emtb mode (of course dependent on terrain). So that makes me confident in my decision on the dual battery. Thanks again for sharing your experience and expertise.

Have you checked this out yet?

 

[Jim Cook]

Have you checked this out yet?

Cool. The calculator says 91 miles in emtb mode. More than enough. Although it would be cool to do a century ride sometime. Maybe next year.

 

[BMWzenRider]

The document you pointed me to says that eMTB automatically switches between tour and turbo as needed. Why would you ever switch into turbo mode?

Does this mean that if you have eMTB mode, you lose sport mode?

I currently have a class 3 Bosch which has eco, tour, sport, and turbo modes, so I understand how those work and how they feel when riding. The eMTB I am still trying to wrap my head around, but it seems cool.

With the new Nyon display and connecting a smartphone you can also pay something like $5-6 to unlock the ability to add additional custom power modes.
That would give you the ability to activate the eMTB mode in place of the Sport mode, and then recreate sport mode power levels in one of the custom mode slots.

 

[Jim Cook]

With the new Nyon display and connecting a smartphone you can also pay something like $5-6 to unlock the ability to add additional custom power modes.
That would give you the ability to activate the eMTB mode in place of the Sport mode, and then recreate sport mode power levels in one of the custom mode slots.

My current bike just has a Purion. I think I will be happy with eMTB on the Homage. eMTB seems superior to sport. But if I don't like it, I can just go from tour to turbo.

 

[Alaskan]

@Jim Cook EMTB is not available as an option in a Class 3 Performance speed motor. It is only available in a CX motor. Personally I prefer Sport over EMTB as it leave more control over electron expenditure in the hands of the rider. The rational behind the creation of the EMTB option is that it frees up the attention and the left hand of a mountain bike rider in varying, technical riding conditions to keep both hands more firmly on the handlebars requiring only shift selection with the right hand and eliminating or, more accurately, automating the assist mode for the rider.

 

[Alaskan]

@Jim Cook EMTB is not available as an option in a Class 3 Performance speed motor. It is only available in a CX motor and its primary design intent is for mountain or off road trail riding.

Personally I prefer Sport over EMTB as it leave more control over electron expenditure in the hands of the rider.

The rational behind the creation of the EMTB option is that it frees up the attention and the left hands of a mountain bike rider in varying, technical riding conditions to keep both hands more firmly on the handlebars requiring only shift selection with the right hand and eliminating or, more accurately, automating the assist mode selection for the rider.

 

[Jim Cook]

@Jim Cook EMTB is not available as an option in a Class 3 Performance speed motor. It is only available in a CX motor. Personally I prefer Sport over EMTB as it leave more control over electron expenditure in the hands of the rider. The rational behind the creation of the EMTB option is that it frees up the attention and the left hand of a mountain bike rider in varying, technical riding conditions to keep both hands more firmly on the handlebars requiring only shift selection with the right hand and eliminating or, more accurately, automating the assist mode for the rider.

Thanks for the info and you bring up a good point about "electron expenditure". However, with a dual batter I am not sure that will be a concern. With my current class 3 Bosch Performance Line Speed I mostly ride in tour mode anyway.

 

[BMWzenRider]

@Jim Cook EMTB is not available as an option in a Class 3 Performance speed motor. It is only available in a CX motor and its primary design intent is for mountain or off road trail riding.

Personally I prefer Sport over EMTB as it leave more control over electron expenditure in the hands of the rider.

The rational behind the creation of the EMTB option is that it frees up the attention and the left hands of a mountain bike rider in varying, technical riding conditions to keep both hands more firmly on the handlebars requiring only shift selection with the right hand and eliminating or, more accurately, automating the assist mode selection for the rider.

With the 4 extra custom ride modes unlocked on my Nyon display, I can have the best of both worlds.
AND, I can customize the assistance to suit my particular bike, gear train, fitness level, and local terrain.

It was only $5.49 to unlock the extra modes,
and it will allow me to experiment with different profiles to dial in the behavior of the motor to what I want,
rather than what Bosch has decided is best for the masses.

In my playing around with the custom modes so far I have found:

• Node "a" on each curve is locked at zero speed, but can be adjusted to any assist percentage.
• You can adjust nodes "b"-thru-"e" on each curve to different speeds in one MPH increments.
• Nodes "a"-thru-"d" on each curve can be adjusted up and down the scale however you wish, including overlapping other curves.
• The final node "e" can be adjusted to any speed greater than node "d" but is locked at an assist level of 0% which cuts out the motor above that speed.
• The farthest you can move any node on each curve appears to be +/-1mph in relation to the node next to it.

That still allows quite a bit of room to play around, and I intend to do so over time just for fun and educational purposes.
You can create some pretty wild curves!

As you can see, you can set the motor cut-off speed to be as low as 2mph.
I do not know why you might want to create a power mode curve like the above screenshot, but you can...

It may be that for the Speed motor owners, showing a park ranger your custom mode screen set to cut off at 20mph might let you talk your way out of a ticket?
(For entertainment purposes only, consult your own counsel, professional rider on a closed course, do not attempt, YMMV.)

----------

I have attached screen shots showing the curves I have come up with as starting points for my custom modes.
To start off:
- For Mode-1: I am going to have a curve which ramps up with speed for riding on mostly level terrain.
(more assist to help overcome increasing aerodynamic drag)
- For Mode-2: I am going with a curve which which tapers off at higher speeds in hilly terrain.
(more assist as you slow down heading uphill, less assist as gravity assists going down the backside).
- For Modes 3 & 4: I am going to keep flat power levels for mode 3 & 4. (255% & 340% respectively)
(but with Mode-3 set at a slightly higher percentage than the 240% that is offered in Sport Mode with the Gen-4 Performance Line motors.)

Time will tell...

 

[Alaskan]

I take a somewhat different approach in my custom ride modes. Even in Eco I like to use a higher level of assist in the "ramp up" speed profile to get more assist getting up to speed and then less assist once at more easily sustained cruising speed. I can keep my Topstone Neo Carbon going 22 mph in Eco but it takes a longer time to get up to that speed with the minimal assist. For safety sake I like having more assist from zero to 12 mph and then taper down the assist.

 

[Jim Cook]

You guys are out of my league. I will be happy with the standard ride modes.

 

[Alaskan]

A caution regarding use of custom assist mode...the system does not provide or show varying range estimates for different assist levels as it does using the factory preset levels Eco-Turbo. This was true for the original Nyon as well.

 

[Jay Kay]

This summer and fall I plan to ride some multi-day rail/canal trail rides. GAP, Ohio to Erie Trail, and C&O etc. I don't plan to camp, but stay in lodging along the way so I can pack light. Some of the trip segments are 60+ miles and that is what motivated me towards the dual battery version.

I plan to add some panniers and Tannus tire liners. Anyone have Tannus on their ebike and can share their experience?

I have been using Tannus for a year now with no punctures. They are not 100% puncture resistant as a couple of others have noted, but pretty damned good. Additionally the riding is more cushioned and sharp hits reduced to dull thuds.

I will always ride with Tannus going forward.

 

[BMWzenRider]

I take a somewhat different approach in my custom ride modes. Even in Eco I like to use a higher level of assist in the "ramp up" speed profile to get more assist getting up to speed and then less assist once at more easily sustained cruising speed. I can keep my Topstone Neo Carbon going 22 mph in Eco but it takes a longer time to get up to that speed with the minimal assist. For safety sake I like having more assist from zero to 12 mph and then taper down the assist.

"Easily sustained cruising speed" is going to be much different for different riders.

With my history of leg injuries, I probably need more help than others.
In particular, my knees cannot handle a lot of pressure, so low input torque is the limiting factor for my riding.

And since aerodynamic drag increases at the square of velocity (F=mv^2) I need more help to maintain speed as the velocity increases.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

It's only money.........my first VW Beetle cost less than $8K (admittedly that was an awfully long time ago)

Must not be that long ago. Small block Corvette Roadsters retailed for $4K USD in the early '60s.
I bought a cherry '67 SB coupe for $7K CDN in the '70s. CN

 

[Jim Cook]

I have a 500wh power tube. Can I carry that along in a pannier and replace one of the 625wh batteries in the Homage if I run low on power?