My Thoughts on Mid Drive..Hub Drive and Throttle

[BBassett]

There really are two cases where a throttle comes in handy:

To a lesser extent the throttle can help you start on hills. I can see that although I always peddle to start the bike while holding the motor cut-out button (Large Green Button) and then let the PAS engage then feather on the throttle if necessary... but yes it can help if you are willing to sacrifice the power to start the mass moving with the motor.

When you are maneuvering the bike at very low speeds or in a tight spot where the pedals could give you too much momentum. Agreed. Another point is in snow when a smooth steady power without pumping your legs helps to keep a smooth straight line on uber slippery surfaces.

I don't consider the "broken chain" hypothetical a serious one. Chain breaks are exceedingly rare and any number of other more plausible mechanical failures might leave your bike inoperable, hub drive or not. For that matter, it is much easier to fix a flat on a mid-drive bike (largely because you don't need to disconnect the power to the motor, but also because the wheel is much lighter and much easier to pick up and work on without a hub drive in it) -- yet that is rarely mentioned as a disadvantage of hub drives. I carry an extra chain and links so I don't worry about the durability of the chain just the level of wear and that it's well lubricated. I agree that hub-motors make it more difficult to remove the wheel, hell some fat-tire riders repair their flats with the wheel still on the bike rather than taking it off. But the biggest difference is that the weight of the motor isn't suspended with hub-motors and they take an unnecessary beating. I guess it doesn't matter much when and if you specifically buy a bike that's low-rent and considered disposable. "It only costs $999.00 so..." My Rohloff costs more than many low-rent complete production ebikes and there a reason for that.

 

[BBassett]

If my intent were to not pedal at all, I'd probably stay home. That doesn't mean though, that my throttle isn't used frequently during the course of every ride! For instance, for use when getting the bike moving from a stop. When traveling those first couple of feet, a small tickle of power is very useful while getting your balance. 6' later, you are pedaling smoothly with no further need for the throttle. Or how about getting the bike moving in a hurry, as in when crossing a busy road for instance? Maybe a little burst of throttle for cresting that little rise, rather than changing gears or PAS level?

Very little doubt that if you have one, you'll use it, even if it has nothing to do with with the concept of allowing you to "not pedal at all".

Everyone is different. It's funny to me that so many ebike riders talk the same nonsense when discussing throttles that standard bike riders talk about ebikes themselves. Haters gonna hate. 36 miles today in the very low 30s.

 

[BBassett]

I meticulously gear down when at a stop (even to the point that if I come to an unexpected stop, I'll lift the rear wheel off the ground and pedal briefly so that I can gear down), so I'm always in a low gear when the light goes green.

That's where the magic of a Speed-hub comes to play... you shift them when you are off the power so it doesn't matter what gear you are in. I can go from 14th to 1st is a second standing still or moving. Also very easy to keep clean on muddy rides.

 

[tomjasz]

Only egocentric bicycle purists are throttle haters. There's a full range of users out there. Whether they use a throttle or not Is simply none of your business. Go for a ride, your pontificating is tiresome.

 

[BBassett]

Only egocentric bicycle purists are throttle haters. There's a full range of users out there. Whether they use a throttle or not Is simply none of your business. Go for a ride, your pontificating is tiresome.

YEAH!!!!! Whoever he was talking to!!!! Pontificating... good one Tom!

 

[tomjasz]

I have ridden bikes with throttles, and never found a use for it.

You are a completely able rider. Good for you. LOTS of new riders are out because they need assistance and could buy a bike that provides it. Should your grandmother not ride 10 miles with her grandkids if she can only use pedal-assist for 3 of those miles?
eBikes are changing lives for not so able riders.

 

[Mass Deduction]

Only egocentric bicycle purists are throttle haters. There's a full range of users out there. Whether they use a throttle or not Is simply none of your business. Go for a ride, your pontificating is tiresome.

You didn't say who you were responding to, but I can only guess it was me given the content of your message.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to be rude to people whose opinions differ from yours (presuming by pontification that you meant "express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic").

If you were referring to me, then you're doing so falsely. Consider that I said:

"That's cool if it adds something to the experience for you. I'm not saying it shouldn't!
[...]
If you're getting value out of it then that's great,
[...]
Your comments are interesting, and I appreciate you taking the time to share them!
[...]
I'm getting the impression that there are some people who get some legitimate use out of it, but for reasons that wouldn't benefit me...."

I don't think the above comments qualify me as a "throttle hater" or of "pontificating" tiresomely.

I did share my opinion and experience, and appreciated others doing the same. I don't think slagging other forum members adds any value to the discourse.

 

[Mass Deduction]

You are a completely able rider. Good for you. LOTS of new riders are out because they need assistance and could buy a bike that provides it. Should your grandmother not ride 10 miles with her grandkids if she can only use pedal-assist for 3 of those miles?
eBikes are changing lives for not so able riders.

I sell e-bikes for a living, so I'm quite aware.

If you read all of my messages, I even acknowledged that things like a mobility impairment are a strong argument for a throttle.

I like to read your posts because you have good information and interesting opinions, but I think insulting other forum participants devalues that contribution.

 

[AHicks]

Your comments are interesting, and I appreciate you taking the time to share them!

I have ridden bikes with throttles, and never found a use for it. I meticulously gear down when at a stop (even to the point that if I come to an unexpected stop, I'll lift the rear wheel off the ground and pedal briefly so that I can gear down), so I'm always in a low gear when the light goes green. My bikes are lightweight, the two I ride most often are 41.5 and 42.5 pounds respectively. So if I need to take off like a rocket when the light goes green, I do so in a low gear, a high level of assist, and I pedal hard, and because of that I fly through the intersection fast and easy.

I wouldn't want to use a throttle and put more stress on the motor when cresting a hill, when I could instead change gears to be more efficient and less stressful on the bike.

I'm getting the impression that there are some people who get some legitimate use out of it, but for reasons that wouldn't benefit me at all. Like I say, I've ridden many bikes with throttles and never found a use for it. Not for where I ride and how I ride, so I have a great deal of doubt that I would use it if any of my regular bikes had it. Ditto my co-worker who did a Bafang conversion, therefore had a throttle, and he never used it either. It's just not at all relevant to some people's riding style I guess.

Here it is again. The realization there are different strokes for different folks, or the fact there may be more than one way to get the job done! We do not all ride the same, or even have the same reasons for being on a bike to start with! There's little right or wrong here. Way more about doing whatever make you happy.....

 

[BBassett]

Here it is again. The realization there are different strokes for different folks, or the fact there may be more than one way to get the job done! We do not all ride the same, or even have the same reasons for being on a bike to start with! There's little right or wrong here. Way more about doing whatever make you happy.....

But I can still argue that it's more beneficial to have a throttle and not use it than to not have a throttle at all. ;-)

 

[harryS]

I was towing my grandaughter with one of the hitchhiker rigs where she sits on back and can pedal. The whole bike assembly is 90 pounds. I'm 190 and she is 35, so we have over 300 pounds to get moving without tipping over. I can do it in first gear, but I don't need a hernia. Throttle sure comes in handy.

 

[Mass Deduction]

But I can still argue that it's more beneficial to have a throttle and not use it than to not have a throttle at all. ;-)

I can't argue with that, @BBassett.

 

[AHicks]

So the bottom line, when asked if you are looking for a bike with a throttle, the correct answer is yes please!

 

[BBassett]

I was towing my grandaughter with one of the hitchhiker rigs where she sits on back and can pedal. The whole bike assembly is 90 pounds. I'm 190 and she is 35, so we have over 300 pounds to get moving without tipping over. I can do it in first gear, but I don't need a hernia. Throttle sure comes in handy.

People will tell you that with a good intuitive PAS the throttle isn't necessary... I like having it there for how I ride.

 

[harryS]

People will tell you that with a good intuitive PAS the throttle isn't necessary... I like having it there for how I ride.

Assumes you have torque sensing. On mine, the pedals gotta move to before the motor starts. I should have my torque sensor bike running this Spring, but I've ridden T/S on demo rides and this feel-the-bike is all emotional silliness anyway. I was giddy earlier this week because my wife asked to go riding and it's $%^#& January. It's like 44F and I am thinking this is great. Well. if it were early October, we'd say it was too cold and stay in.

 

[BBassett]

Assumes you have torque sensing. On mine, the pedals gotta move to before the motor starts. I should have my torque sensor bike running this Spring, but I've ridden T/S on demo rides and this feel-the-bike is all emotional silliness anyway. I was giddy earlier this week because my wife asked to go riding and it's $%^#& January. It's like 44F and I am thinking this is great. Well. if it were early October, we'd say it was too cold and stay in.

The BaFang mid-drives are the same way, no torque sensor, turn the peddles and it applies a predetermined amount of assist at whatever power level you have it set for (I use 9 levels). You don't have to lean into the peddle for more power and/or speed. The throttle can be set for more or less assistance than the PAS at each power lever also, giving you more options on how to ride. That's why the EggRider was so cool. It allows you to make on the fly changes to the controller. Very cool. Changing something, riding, changing it again. Once you have it dialed in... to your riding style the EggRider became more trouble for me than value. I think it's one of the mistakes that the Europeans have designed into their production bikes, not allowing riders to decide how they want to ride their own bikes.

Nein, nein, nein, du sollst das Fahrrad so fahren, wie wir es dir sagen! Keine Wahl für Sie!

Congrats on getting out to ride with your wife. Prove to her she can be comfortable in the cold, don't let her ride in the snow, take a thermos of hot chocolate, and she may start riding with you all the time.

 

[Martinet]

My preference is for a throttle with a quick removal/reinstall feature in case I encounter a trail limited to Class 1.

 

[BBassett]

My preference is for a throttle with a quick removal/reinstall feature in case I encounter a trail limited to Class 1.

Bingo! Give than man a cigar! Class-1 should be the objective or at least achievable in my opinion.

 

[6zfshdb]

I really don't understand this throttle controversy. It is totally a matter of opinion and personal preference. A throttle is a tool which, as mentioned earlier in this thread, can be useful under certain conditions.

If I were younger, I would likely feel that a throttle is a cop out and defeats the purpose of biking for exercise. Now, at 73, I wouldn't own a bike without one. Even though I can still comfortably ride a conventional bike, I don't know for sure just how long that will be the case. An e-bike is an expensive purchase that I want to be able to use for the foreseeable future.

My favorite type of riding is on long trails in some fairly remote areas. Since I'm never sure when my joint issues will flare up, a few years back, I had to give that up for fears of getting stranded by not being able to pedal back. My throttled e-bike changed all that and I'm now comfortable riding my favorite trails again. I can go farther and longer than I ever did before.

In addition to peace of mind, I also find a throttle useful when walking a heavy e-bike up slopes or even stairs.

I hear many say they would never buy a bike with a throttle. That's a shame because you've eliminated a good percentage of otherwise compatible models to choose from. If you want exercise, do what I do and DON'T USE IT. If you lack self control, turn it off or disconnect it.

The only down side to a throttle is it turns a class 1 bike into a class 2. For legal reasons, depending on your location, this could be a factor in where and how you ride. I don't know if simply turning off or disconnecting the throttle makes it legal on class 1 trails.

 

[AHicks]

Bingo! Give than man a cigar! Class-1 should be the objective or at least achievable in my opinion.

The objective should be a change to any law saying throttles are not allowed. That's a poorly thought out dumb a** rule any way you slice it.

The other piece, other than the fact it's a dumb a** rule, is nobody is enforcing it, which would have a lot of people believing even law enforcement thinks of it as a dumb a** rule.....