My Thoughts on Mid Drive..Hub Drive and Throttle

[harryS]

I pretty much think all ebikes are fun regardless of where we put the motor. I don't keep all my bikes in perfect tune, so I still might get a chain coming off and getting stuck between freewheel and frame. With the hub motor, I can always throttle until I get someplace safe to put it back on. When that happens on my mid drive, well it's coast to stop. Safety tip. Always power off bike when you fool around with drive train components.

My bigger hubmotors are 5:1, but the little Q100 motors in our 20" folders are 12:1. We've taken them up the stiffest hills in our area, and on one, so much of the bike weight was over the drive wheel that the pedals in concert with the motor pulled a wheelie.

I'm prepared with linear tubes, 17mm and 18mm wrenches, for the flat tires on our hub motors when we're far from home, but have never had a flat tire yet on any of the ebikes. I've never pulled the motor off my first hub motor conversion from 2015. Lucky.

 

[vincent]

I don’t know much about hub motor difference, have owned both mid and hub motors and liked them all

but think maybe the chain breaking issue is just one that gets listed, have talked to people that had the pedal fall off or other things happen where they used the hub motor and throttle to get home

 

[Mass Deduction]

I pretty much think all ebikes are fun regardless of where we put the motor. I don't keep all my bikes in perfect tune, so I still might get a chain coming off and getting stuck between freewheel and frame. With the hub motor, I can always throttle until I get someplace safe to put it back on. When that happens on my mid drive, well it's coast to stop. Safety tip. Always power off bike when you fool around with drive train components.

My bigger hubmotors are 5:1, but the little Q100 motors in our 20" folders are 12:1. We've taken them up the stiffest hills in our area, and on one, so much of the bike weight was over the drive wheel that the pedals in concert with the motor pulled a wheelie.

I'm prepared with linear tubes, 17mm and 18mm wrenches, for the flat tires on our hub motors when we're far from home, but have never had a flat tire yet on any of the ebikes. I've never pulled the motor off my first hub motor conversion from 2015. Lucky.

For sure there are mechanical problems that could bring you to an immediate stop with a mid-drive, I don't deny it. I myself have had my chain fall off on a Brose bike, until I figured out where to get an appropriately-sized narrow-wide chainring to solve the problem (thanks in part to a poster on this forum!). I think those problems are relatively rare and the odds of them happening if you keep the bike in good tune are very low IMO, and they're at least equal to the odds of a broken spoke in a hub motor IMO. So I'm just suggesting some balance in the discussion is all, and not getting people unduly concerned about either problem (chain breaking, spoke breaking, etc.). Sure, they could happen, but they're all sufficiently rare as to be a minor point in a purchasing decision IMO. But if you are going to mention it, mention it in a balanced way by bringing up both sides of the coin.

 

[Camac]

I think this chain breaking thing is s bit of a red herring. Over the last 4 years I have had 60 to 80 people turn up each Wednesday for a group ride. We have ridden thousa ds of miles amd only once have we had a chain break. And that was on a poorly maintained regular bike. Yes it would have been a problem for this woman, where it happened, and for her level of skill. But she wouldn't have ridden there on her own and we had others in the group with a chain breaker and an extra link.
I tjink the odds of having a chain break are about the same as breaking a fingernail when putting on your riding gloves.

 

[Camac]

A PS. During the riding we have had 2 broken legs, 1 broken ankle, 1broken collarbone and nose amd 1 broken neck (along with the regular scrapes and bruises)

 

[Mass Deduction]

A PS. During the riding we have had 2 broken legs, 1 broken ankle, 1broken collarbone and nose amd 1 broken neck (along with the regular scrapes and bruises)

The general lack of broken chains you've experienced fits with how rarely we see it in our repair shop.

And, wow, your group rides are apparently pretty intense!

 

[AHicks]

Or reckless was my first thought. After considering it for a minute, with that many people the law of averages is bound to have some effect....

 

[Camac]

99% of the riders are retirees and most are competant riders. Some of the tracks are a little "challenging".

 

[tomjasz]

I think this chain breaking thing is s bit of a red herring.

There are a few red herrings with mid drives. One yahoo with a blog beat his BBSxx to death and cried when the plastic gear failed, sending the entire BBSxx fan club looking for a steel gear. When in FACT the plastic BBSxx gear it the slowest-selling repair parts and I have my spare after I ate herring 5 years ago...unused. Riders were treating a BBS01 or 02 like scooter motors. Don't bather shifting when coming to a stop and take off in 12T X 42T from a dead stop.

 

[BBassett]

Just a first time owners 2 cents worth. Last Sat as I arrived to work my left pedal fell off. Thinking no big deal as they had loosened a few times previously and I had always been able to tighten them. Well after 1,300 km this time I realized the aluminum crank was stripped.

If not for the rear hub motor and throttle I would have been dead in the water. Was able to zip over to Canadian Tire and buy some JB Weld epoxy and then throttle home and make a temporary repair. That would not have been an option with mid drive and no throttle.

Ordered new cranks and pedals and will look into if this might be covered by warranty, although I am doubting it even though I did check the issue of pedals loosening previously. For me a hub drive and throttle certainly saved the day....

P.M.C.S. Preventative Maintenance Checks and Services... ask any military member. Go over your bike prior to every ride. Get in the habit. If you stop for lunch before you take off give the bike a quick look over. I agree that a throttle is very useful and any ebike without one is less for that.

 

[Mass Deduction]

P.M.C.S. Preventative Maintenance Checks and Services... ask any military member. Go over your bike prior to every ride. Get in the habit. If you stop for lunch before you take off give the bike a quick look over. I agree that a throttle is very useful and any ebike without one is less for that.

Lots of people seem to value a throttle, and I'm genuinely curious as to why. If I'm tired/sick I'll just pedal very gently. If I'm feeling my Wheaties I'll pedal hard. But short of a mobility impairment, I can't imagine a scenario where I'd prefer to not pedal at all.

 

[BBassett]

Lots of people seem to value a throttle, and I'm genuinely curious as to why. If I'm tired/sick I'll just pedal very gently. If I'm feeling my Wheaties I'll pedal hard. But short of a mobility impairment, I can't imagine a scenario where I'd prefer to not pedal at all.

Oh man, A throttle changes most aspects of using a motor, especially with the large BaFang mid-drives. Try it sometime and I bet you start to see their value. I disconnect it when riding in National Parks and the second I can I re-connect it. Maybe when you are covering 80+ miles a ride it becomes more useful, not sure, but I wouldn't own an ebike without one.

 

[Mass Deduction]

Oh man, A throttle changes most aspects of using a motor, especially with the large BaFang mid-drives. Try it sometime and I bet you start to see their value. I disconnect it when riding in National Parks and the second I can I re-connect it. Maybe when you are covering 80+ miles a ride it becomes more useful, not sure, but I wouldn't own an ebike without one.

I have tried e-bikes with throttles many times, from BionX hub motor bikes back in the day to modern and powerful Bafang mid-drives (both hub and mid-drive) today. And 80+ mile rides aren't uncommon for me, I did a tonne of rides that long or longer this past summer. My longest single day ride in 2019 was 290 km/180 miles. I don't see the appeal at all. Sitting on a bike holding a button is boring to me, whereas moving my legs and feeling "one with the bike" is much more enjoyable.

That's cool if it adds something to the experience for you. I'm not saying it shouldn't! I'm just saying I don't get the appeal at all, and it's not for lack of trying.

One of my coworkers converted a muscle bike with a powerful Bafang mid-drive conversion kit, and he installed the throttle but (aside from testing to see if it worked) never used it. Why would he? The bike went like stink even when he pedalled very gently, so that's virtually the same as a throttle to me.

 

[BBassett]

I have tried e-bikes with throttles many times, from BionX hub motor bikes back in the day to modern and powerful Bafang mid-drives (both hub and mid-drive) today. And 80+ mile rides aren't uncommon for me, I did a tonne of rides that long or longer this past summer. My longest single day ride in 2019 was 290 km/180 miles. I don't see the appeal at all. Sitting on a bike holding a button is boring to me, whereas moving my legs and feeling "one with the bike" is much more enjoyable.

That's cool if it adds something to the experience for you. I'm not saying it shouldn't! I'm just saying I don't get the appeal at all, and it's not for lack of trying.

One of my coworkers converted a muscle bike with a powerful Bafang mid-drive conversion kit, and he installed the throttle but (aside from testing to see if it worked) never used it. Why would he? The bike went like stink even when he pedalled very gently, so that's virtually the same as a throttle to me.

I was that way also for the 1st year of riding. Trying to conserve power, stretch the range. Then after 4 or 5 thousand miles, I found that I could actually stretch my range through the use of the throttle, feathering it on when I want to maintain speed. It's also a real advantage when riding among pedestrians... I can crawl along standing on a single pedal bumping the throttle occasionally, center of gravity low, very stable while weaving through obstacles. Again... I think it's better to have one even if for some reason you chose not to use it.

 

[Mass Deduction]

I was that way also for the 1st year of riding. Trying to conserve power, stretch the range. Then after 4 or 5 thousand miles, I found that I could actually stretch my range through the use of the throttle, feathering it on when I want to maintain speed. It's also a real advantage when riding among pedestrians... I can crawl along standing on a single pedal bumping the throttle occasionally, center of gravity low, very stable while weaving through obstacles. Again... I think it's better to have one even if for some reason you chose not to use it.

If I were in amongst pedestrians, I'd get off and walk along with them until I'm through them and back on the road. I don't understand how feathering the throttle could stretch my range better than pedalling plus assist can? I don't weave through obstacles, I ride roads and well manicured regional trails.

For me, the throttle would just use up more space on my handlebar (which is always at a premium for me), and be one more wire to have to deal with. If I were doing a conversion that came with a throttle, I doubt I'd even install it. If you're getting value out of it then that's great, but I don't see a scenario where I would be likely to get value out of it.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I've used e-bikes both with and without throttles. To be honest I rarely use the throttle anymore even when I have it and I don't much miss it.

There really are two cases where a throttle comes in handy:

1. When you've stopped and forgotten to downshift and need to get going again. To a lesser extent the throttle can help you start on hills.
2. When you are maneuvering the bike at very low speeds or in a tight spot where the pedals could give you too much momentum.

I don't consider the "broken chain" hypothetical a serious one. Chain breaks are exceedingly rare and any number of other more plausible mechanical failures might leave your bike inoperable, hub drive or not. For that matter, it is much easier to fix a flat on a mid-drive bike (largely because you don't need to disconnect the power to the motor, but also because the wheel is much lighter and much easier to pick up and work on without a hub drive in it) -- yet that is rarely mentioned as a disadvantage of hub drives.

Again, I've used both and don't much miss the throttle.

 

[AHicks]

Lots of people seem to value a throttle, and I'm genuinely curious as to why. If I'm tired/sick I'll just pedal very gently. If I'm feeling my Wheaties I'll pedal hard. But short of a mobility impairment, I can't imagine a scenario where I'd prefer to not pedal at all.

If my intent were to not pedal at all, I'd probably stay home. That doesn't mean though, that my throttle isn't used frequently during the course of every ride! For instance, for use when getting the bike moving from a stop. When traveling those first couple of feet, a small tickle of power is very useful while getting your balance. 6' later, you are pedaling smoothly with no further need for the throttle. Or how about getting the bike moving in a hurry, as in when crossing a busy road for instance? Maybe a little burst of throttle for cresting that little rise, rather than changing gears or PAS level?

Very little doubt that if you have one, you'll use it, even if it has nothing to do with with the concept of allowing you to "not pedal at all".

 

[MechaNut]

Lots of people seem to value a throttle, and I'm genuinely curious as to why. If I'm tired/sick I'll just pedal very gently. If I'm feeling my Wheaties I'll pedal hard. But short of a mobility impairment, I can't imagine a scenario where I'd prefer to not pedal at all.

In my case I have chronic tendinitis. As a result I "break" far more often than my bike does. When it flares up every turn of the crank causes large amounts of stabbing pain. Having a throttle gives me the piece of mind that if I have a flare on a ride my bike will get me home or back to my car.

 

[Mass Deduction]

If my intent were to not pedal at all, I'd probably stay home. That doesn't mean though, that my throttle isn't used frequently during the course of every ride! For instance, for use when getting the bike moving from a stop. When traveling those first couple of feet, a small tickle of power is very useful while getting your balance. 6' later, you are pedaling smoothly with no further need for the throttle. Or how about getting the bike moving in a hurry, as in when crossing a busy road for instance? Maybe a little burst of throttle for cresting that little rise, rather than changing gears or PAS level?

Very little doubt that if you have one, you'll use it, even if it has nothing to do with with the concept of allowing you to "not pedal at all".

Your comments are interesting, and I appreciate you taking the time to share them!

I have ridden bikes with throttles, and never found a use for it. I meticulously gear down when at a stop (even to the point that if I come to an unexpected stop, I'll lift the rear wheel off the ground and pedal briefly so that I can gear down), so I'm always in a low gear when the light goes green. My bikes are lightweight, the two I ride most often are 41.5 and 42.5 pounds respectively. So if I need to take off like a rocket when the light goes green, I do so in a low gear, a high level of assist, and I pedal hard, and because of that I fly through the intersection fast and easy.

I wouldn't want to use a throttle and put more stress on the motor when cresting a hill, when I could instead change gears to be more efficient and less stressful on the bike.

I'm getting the impression that there are some people who get some legitimate use out of it, but for reasons that wouldn't benefit me at all. Like I say, I've ridden many bikes with throttles and never found a use for it. Not for where I ride and how I ride, so I have a great deal of doubt that I would use it if any of my regular bikes had it. Ditto my co-worker who did a Bafang conversion, therefore had a throttle, and he never used it either. It's just not at all relevant to some people's riding style I guess.

 

[BBassett]

If I were in amongst pedestrians, I'd get off and walk along with them until I'm through them and back on the road. I don't understand how feathering the throttle could stretch my range better than pedalling plus assist can? I don't weave through obstacles, I ride roads and well manicured regional trails.

For me, the throttle would just use up more space on my handlebar (which is always at a premium for me), and be one more wire to have to deal with. If I were doing a conversion that came with a throttle, I doubt I'd even install it. If you're getting value out of it then that's great, but I don't see a scenario where I would be likely to get value out of it.

Ride more, and gets some practical experience with one and you may feel different. On the BaFang mid-drives I can set the PAS and the throttle to different levels of assist. As far as not riding around pedestrians... hummmmmmmm, try walking your bike across the Golden Gate Bridge sometime, there are muggles everywhere, you may change your mind.