fat bike advice to my eye doc

[Stefan Mikes]

Shimano lists several customers of their stuff, including Norco.

A user from Canada in these Forums owns a Norco VLT1 Bigfoot. He has used it for winter rides in deep snow or on a frozen lake (studded tyres). In the warm season, he has ridden a Specialized Creo on asphalt or a Specialized Levo for singletrack

 

[Watana Bob]

And we miss that guy and his fantastic photos and ride write ups.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I had to Google that,..


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A bottle of Blue has a different meaning in Canada ,..


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It comes in cans too.

I thought you guys called your cops "Paddy's" ?
As in "paddy wagon" (a box full of drunkards )

I thought Chargeride meant the noise a bluebottle fly makes when trapped indoors against a window -as in describing combination of that irritating noise mixed with a tractor and cobbles!

If you were around from the beginning like I was, you would know the apex of fat tire e-mountain bikes has come and passed. This site alone, when Court was running it, was probably as big an influence on e-fat tired mtb sales in the us as anyone else. It's worth it just to check out his reviews on the Felt Outfitter, Haibike FatSix and Haibike Full FatSix.

E-Fat MTB for me will always be defined as a high end, up-scale components, premium quality mid drive bikes. Everything else is just a cheap, Chinese facsimile of these early, 2016 to 2020 Euro-prototypes.

Dig far enough on the video reviews here to find Court's review of the Felt Outfitter; a hard tail, Rock Shox Bluto, Bosch mid drive....... his review of the original Haibike FatSix and the later Haibike Full FatSix. During that time, Bulls had their Bosch powered Monster fat bikes. All of these bikes equal the top tier of fat tired, e-mountain bikes. I want to think that even Specialized, for a very short time, had a fat tired MTB. But all fell by the wayside; I suppose by small sales. The only mid drive, fat tired ebike that interests me these days would be the Bosch powered Tern Orox; but at that, it's a cargo-styled ebike with an extra long wheelbase.

But that's just my opinion. If the OP is perfectly happy with his Juiced; in the end, that is all that counts! The main thing is that these fat tired ebikes are getting people enthused enough to go off-trail to see what adventures lie ahead and to me, that is the only freaking thing that matters!!!!!

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Very sensible thoughts. And yeah I miss Court's reviews.

 

[Chazmo]

Thanks, everyone! I really appreciate the thoughts.

And, like almost always, you get what you pay for. As I mentioned to my doctor, the ~$2000US range seems to get you a lot of fat bike for the moola. But there are tons of compromises too including the rear hub motor which many of you don’t like. Other compromises too… my Juiced bike, for example, came with a pretty crappy, generic front fork that doesn’t even have rebound control. The thing actually split on me at the crown recently from metal fatigue and I had to replace it! I fully expect that to happen again some time with the replacement that I took from my spare bike at which point I might buy something good. Bottom line is that this segment of the “pretty good” fatty market is getting ruined by super-crappy ~$500 bikes that are, well, mostly not so good. I’ve steered my doc away from those entirely. Of course, “pretty good” is a long way from “great.” I hope someday to be able to compare my riding experience on the fatties I’ve tried with one like Mike Towpath was talking about earlier as well as one of those awesome Norcos.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Hehehe. Love your perspective, Mike. Truth is, I was around long before the beginning. For me it was being around during the strong growth/development of the mountain bike in the Bay Area in the early 1990s. I was there with my CA friends, riding the hills in Marin and getting mountain bike tickets from the water cops for going too fast down the trails of the back side of Mt. Tamalpais. Oddly, they never cited me over for going too fast up the mountain where the hikers and equestrians actually would’ve been spooked! (I was never a fast climber and never threatened a pedestrian or equestrian, just to be clear!!)

In all seriousness, though, I certainly was watching the development of these fat ebikes from afar as, unfortunately, there were no room in my life for biking. I had tried to ride a non-assisted fatty at some family vacation in Maine in the 2000s when I realized you had to be a superman to actually enjoy riding one. But I loved the concept. I really gave up riding almost entirely during those years. It’s only recently, in retirement and divorce, that biking has come back to me and that the fat ebike is the tool.

My unfortunate perspective is that commodity bikes are squeezing out the really good stuff. But I’m not sure what you mean by “apex.” As for technology, it seems like new/cool gear is always popping up, electronics are improving, and hopefully some new battery and motor technologies are on the way. And, as for adoption, well, there seems to be a lot of fat ebikes continuing to crop up. You probably mean high-end / quality… You’re probably right about that, but I’ll stay optimistic since I’m technically a newbie.


Shimano lists several customers of their stuff, including Norco. I haven’t looked around much at many of these, but they seem nice. I haven’t studied Bosch stuff, but now that you mention it, Mike, I’m sure ebike components from them would be wonderful.

I’ll have to root around for those videos from the teens.

Just out of curiosity, Mike, and seriously not to poke the bear, but why are you attached to the mid-drive configuration?

@Chazmo: It's a privilege to be replying to one of the northern Californians who were out there with the first mountain bikes!! I'm a product of my particular environment here in Southern New Jersey; no mountains here, but plenty of deep sand trails in a place called the NJ Pine Barrens. THIS is where the higher end e-fat bikes with mid-drive shine. My first mountain bike was an early 1980's Ross Mt Hood, the black framed/gold anodized rimmed mtb; so I'm almost of your vintage! In 1992, after studying the various bicycling and mountain bike magazines of the day, I went for the Trek 9000; Trek's first foray into dual suspension mountain bikes. Years later, the critics had a field day with that bike, but I sure managed alot of trail miles on her. Still have her, down the cellar, to this day!

Just some unsolicited and solicited opinionating based on your post....... Regards to Norco and their Shimano mid drive motor system....... I don't know if Shimano has gotten the bugs worked out of that motor as I have not been keeping up with the e-mtb forums like I once did. I just recall a heck of a lot of failures to that motor for absolutely no reason at all on the part of the ebike owner. So, buyer beware with any Shimano.

I would not hesitate at all in buying a used Outfitter, Haibike FatSix or Full FatSix or the two Bulls Monster fat ebikes. Just a good look into how the drive systems perform on a test ride; any irregular system codes & any odd noises coming from the motor. Oh, and a good check of the frame in the area of the seat post tube/motor frame/seat stay areas for any cracking indicating a hard life of jumping the bike. The good thing about a fatty is that it's highly unlikely anyone is trying to catch air on a heavy e-fat bike like the ones I mentioned.

Regards to my love for the mid-drive configuration; several thoughts: Bosch, Yamaha and Brose spent a ton of money and tens of thousands of research hours designing, developing and releasing these motors to the public. They all have a relatively long history of reliable service backing them up. Parts are available to repair and refreshen them should a problem arise. My own Full FatSix has close to 20 thousand miles on the bike, battery(s), motor and display with not one failure to note with the exception of my rear spoke magnet coming loose on the spoke on one ride several years ago. For those into mountain climbing, mid drives allow the rider to use the largest rear cassette sprockets available; something not doable on a rear-hub drive. It has been said and written by others that rear hubs are not true mountain goat climbers as they tend to overheat their windings......

For your viewing pleasure on these older Court reviews:

Felt Outfitter:

Haibike FatSix: (Note: later FatSix configurations featured the scaled-down Bosch motor and it's final configuration featured the Yamaha PW:

Haibike Full FatSix:

Bulls Monster ES Hard Tail:

Bulls Monster EFS Full Suspension:

Apologies for the drawn out post!!!

 

[Urbancowboy]

Hi gang,

I wrote the letter below to summarize my thoughts and information on fat ebikes to my eye doctor who’s interested in going down the same route I have. I thought I’d post it here to see if anyone feels there’s elaboration/correction I should make. I express a lot of my fairly novice personal opinions within, so of course you’re welcome to disagree with them. And I’m sure many of you will disagree with my recommendation(s), but I welcome any feedback especially if there’s any obvious brand/choice that I missed.

— letter follows —

I've been composing this for you regarding fat tire ebikes and it's taken me a while to put all my thoughts and info together for you. I hope this is of some value.

First of all, my actual experience is about a year in the making since I bought my bike direct from the manufacturer (Juiced Bikes) last year and assembled it at my house. After putting 1000mi on it through the summer, Juiced shut down and went away. So, I've become something of a do-it-yourself hobbyist now in order to fix my bike (it's had several problems needing surgery) and keep it running for a few years. I've had to buy parts online and even drive to NJ to pick up a spare bike for parts. It's been an adventure in many ways.

I really hadn't ridden my old mountain bike for about 5 years when I started getting excited as electrified fat tire (4"+ wide tires) bikes started getting popular. The whole concept really appealed to me. As a former avid mountain biker, I was interested in the relaxed mountain bike geometry and I knew it would suit me well. There are many other types of ebikes out there, including road, cargo, city-style bikes, and dirt bikes.

When shopping for fatties, there are a few key differences among the choices. Here's where things get dizzying and if you have any questions, just write back. Here's the list of considerations, in order.

1. Prices. All over the map. I paid about $1500 for the bike, new, from San Diego, and I've put about that much into it for a variety of upgrades from the factory and spare parts. My recommendation is for you to plan to spend between $1K and $2K to have a reasonable quality bike, but there are good reasons for spending more (I'll get there) if you know you're going to be in this for, say, 5 years or more. My opinion anyway.

2. Technology/Power. The most recent, bleeding-edge bikes offer 52V batteries and over 1000W of power (usually peaking around 2000). The previous generation (most of the bikes I'll recommend, below) use 48V batteries and give you 750W of power (usually peaking a little over 1000). For rear hub motor bikes I recommend going no less than 750W. For mid-drive you could go lower. And that brings me to the next consideration...

3. Rear hub motor vs. mid-drive. I'm going to recommend a rear hub motor drive for your fatty. But, technical riders and many others love mid-drives motors. There are good reasons for that. Essentially, the mid drive adds power to the pedal crank making you like a superman on the pedals. A hub motor assists with spinning the wheel independently of the crank/gears. Mid-drives are pedal-assist only whereas hub motors can power the bike without pedaling, and many/most come with a throttle. For my purposes, I almost never use the throttle (without pedaling) unless I'm crossing an intersection or just standing up on the bike to give my tush a break. I could certainly use/love a mid-drive, but I'm quite happy with the hub drive.

4. Step thru vs. not. It's quite a bit easier to handle a bike that has no top tube. Some of the bikes I'll point you at below are step thru, most aren't. Mine isn't. But I'll be honest that handling a 75 pound bike and kicking your leg over it while laying it over a little bit takes a bit of getting used to. You seem like a strong guy so it's probably not a necessity, but step thru would be easier to get used to.

5. Rear suspension vs hard-tail. All fatties have front suspension forks (of various quality). Mine was crappy and it broke so I had to replace it recently. Anyway, quality of the fork is definitely something to factor in. But, some bikes (not mine) are offered with full suspension (i.e., rear shock), and I think that's really cool. But, I'm a hard-tail kind of guy and even on my mountain bike I never went full suspension. Having said that, there are a few times that I've been bounced out of my saddle and that can be scary. If I have to buy another bike down the road I may go upscale and may include a full suspension.

6. 26" vs. 20" wheels. I'm just going to recommend getting 26" wheels to you as that's just more mountain-bike-like, but there are plenty of good smaller wheeled models (mostly 20") with 4"-wide tires that might fit the bill.

7. Folding vs. not. There are a number of fat ebikes that fold at the bottom bracket. These are cool, but still very heavy. That can be useful if you have a small storage area for the bike or if you want to put it in a vehicle without a rack. FYI, you'll need a special rack to transport a fatty on your car/truck unless you have another person to help you lift one of these monsters. I don't and I ride from my house every time.

8. Security. Not sure where you live or where you want to ride, but there's a lot of theft going on in the more urban areas. My bike came with a lock and key to remove the battery. It also came with a compartment in the battery to mount an Apple AirTag, which is a tracking device if you're not already familiar with those. I'm a huge fan of the AirTag!

OK, I've given you most of the facets you need to consider. Below is a list I've compiled of fat ebikes that I know about. There are MANY more out there, but here's where I have to warn you. If you buy direct, you may face a situation like I have where an established brand just vanishes off the face of the earth. So, it might be best to poll all the local bike shops and see if you can do test rides and see what they have. I'm still going to recommend direct sale and home delivery to you as that's still the way to get the best technology for a reasonable price. However, if you're willing to spend more for quality, local service then that's totally reasonable.

The most common bikes that I know of out there are the three listed below, which may not have local stores. I'm going to recommend that you shop Aventon, which is perhaps the most popular fat ebike that I know of around here (which is a good thing for parts and service) plus I think there's a shop in Ayer. The Rad is probably the best deal.

aventon: dealer in Ayer. https://www.aventon.com/products/aventure2-ebike?variant=42255489466563
rad: https://www.radpowerbikes.com/collections/fat-tire-electric-bikes radrover (very good deal)

Lectric: https://lectricebikes.com/

Some others that I know of that looked good:

velotric: https://www.velotricbike.com/products/velotric-nomad-1

himiway https://himiwaybike.com/pages/uscenter

Heybike brawn: https://www.heybike.com/products/heybike-brawn-electric-bike?variant=44052297482459

voltbike yukon: https://voltbike.com/products/yukon-750-limited

MS2 All terrain: https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/all-terrain-r750-series/products/all-terrain-electric-fat-bike

If you really want to go high-end, look at the Norco or Specialized. Specialized is not leading-edge technically, but they're extremely well-built, there are stores that carry them, and you'd have a Vado for a lifetime. The Norco is just awesome, but too expensive.

Norco bigfoot (expensive but nice components. (internal battery)

specialized vado (expensive and not bleeding edge) https://www.specialized.com/au/en/turbo-vado-30/p/206163?color=348376-206163

The final thing I want to mention is that the reason a lot of these brands are facing extinction is cheap, poor imports from China. If you look on Amazon, sure, you can get in on this craze for under $500, but these bikes will be in the trash in short order. Just my opinion. But, here for reference. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ebike+fat+tire&crid=3NNGGMF0E3AVD&sprefix=ebike+fat+tire,aps,179&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

I like your post and agree to most everything based on my limited knowledge having owned my eBike for only 2 plus years and just put a little over 2000 Km onto it. Mine is a Fucare Gemini which I purchased directly from Amazon and pay about 2700.** Canadian Dollar for. It has a 750 rear Hub Motor and 20X4" Tires. I just love this Bike and when I had a Problem with it Fucare went out of their way to make it right. Defenitely would buy it again but 26" Tires and a rear suspension would be even nicer.