Help finding a mid-drive, torque ebike with a throttle and natural pedal assist?

[tricycle]

Hello, I am new here, so hi everyone! I am looking at purchasing my second e-bike. For the last two years I have loved using a very early model e-bike, made before pedal assist was a thing, it only had a rear hub throttle. But recently have had to give it to another family member to use. So small talk out of the way, I have tried several different e-bikes in my area, both with and without pedal assist, and with mid drive and rear hub motors. What I learned from these test rides is that pedal assist only begins to feel natural to me when its a mid drive, torque sensor. I tried the trek verve + 3 and it rode like a dream, but the lack of a throttle is a deal breaker. Otherwise I loved that bike, so I hope that helps as far as recommendations. I look forward to your recommendations and any help is much appreciated! Thank you.

 

[Ben J]

There are hub drive torque sensor setups (like Aventon's latest bikes) which are also class 2 (throttle). The torque sensing is not quite as nice, but it is an option.

 

[rtp]

With full suspension, front suspension only, don't care? For what type of riding.
Luna, FLX, and others have various mid-drive torque-sensing bikes. None of the 'big brands' that do big business in the EU will have a throttle option as it's not allowed there in general. I'd take a look at bikes with M600/M610(20), for an 'enough for most people and better range than the Bafang Ultra' option.

 

[rich c]

Natural pedal assist AND a throttle? Now that is an oxymoron statement if I ever read one. "I need a natural pedal assist on my scooter please"

 

[GizmoEV]

Natural pedal assist AND a throttle? Now that is an oxymoron statement if I ever read one. "I need a natural pedal assist on my scooter please"

I disagree, that is not an oxymoron statement. There is no conflict of terms any more than my Pedego Element or Avenue with 5 PAS levels and throttle. Basically, the throttle overrides any pedal assisting setting and would be very useful when the assist level is set relatively low and you suddenly need to accelerate more than you can with the current mode. What @tricycle is looking for is doable and I think what I want in my next eBike.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Natural pedal assist AND a throttle? Now that is an oxymoron statement if I ever read one. "I need a natural pedal assist on my scooter please"

Let's not start another senseless throttle war. Presence of a throttle and how it's used are 2 very different things. Granted, throttles make certain kinds of irresponsible riding easier, but so do ebikes in general.

You may have no personal use for a throttle, but for some of us, it's a valuable tool. Please respect that.

My hub drive bike has a very natural-feeling torque-sensing PAS. The throttle supplements that capability on an as-needed basis.

 

[teskow]

Natural pedal assist AND a throttle? Now that is an oxymoron statement if I ever read one. "I need a natural pedal assist on my scooter please"

Not so. My Juiced combined the two very well. Smooth power delivery feeling very natural.

 

[tricycle]

With full suspension, front suspension only, don't care? For what type of riding.
Luna, FLX, and others have various mid-drive torque-sensing bikes. None of the 'big brands' that do big business in the EU will have a throttle option as it's not allowed there in general. I'd take a look at bikes with M600/M610(20), for an 'enough for most people and better range than the Bafang Ultra' option.

Some level of suspension would be great, I do not plan on doing any "off roading" but I do bike on some more unkempt bike trails in my area. My current mountain bike and the previous ebike just had front suspension and that worked perfectly well. I would mainly use it for those trails and then around my down town area. I do not live in a city and I am located in the USA.

 

[Johnny]

Natural pedal assist AND a throttle? Now that is an oxymoron statement if I ever read one. "I need a natural pedal assist on my scooter please"

Following Rich's gracious introduction to the forums, I believe we can now proceed to address the question posed by OP.

Most of the mainstream torque sensing bikes from big brands are pedal assist only.

You will have that option in smaller brands like Juiced have both torque sensor and throttle. I think recently @Ravi Kempaiah is also offering a similar bike. Bafang mid drive offerings that are mentioned previously should come with the option of adding a throttle.

 

[indianajo]

Natural pedal assist AND a throttle? Now that is an oxymoron statement if I ever read one. "I need a natural pedal assist on my scooter please"

I'm happy to hear that you are always healthy every day. I like to exercise with my bike, but a few days a year I can't even walk without a cane. If I'm 27 miles from home when that happens, begging for a ride to town and leaving my bike out there stranded is the only option. Or let the bike pull me home with the throttle. Taxis will not serve that location. Electric wheelchairs do not have the range and cannot negotiate the ditches along the road. Which is why I electrified my 24 speed cargo bike in the first place. Torque sensing would be really nice.
How did you spend your 20's? I spent mine pounding my knees to the bone for Uncle Sam. My friends and neighbors gave me a draft # of 37 out of 366, to make my future obvious in 1969.

 

[scrambler]

As was said, throttle is usually found on smaller shops, usually combined with a Bafang motor for the torque based pedal assist. Several of these have good reputation, and some are present on this forum, like Bitrix, zen or wattwagons. If opened to the idea there is one chinese manufacturer that has also proved reliable, and it is Frey.

On the affordable side, you also find Evelo and Sondors

 

[Taylor57]

You didnt mention your budget but I have purchased a few ebikes in the last few years. You may want to look at the Frey CC (Full suspension w throttle) if your budget is in the 4500 US range and the Aventon Level 2 if you are in the 2k US range. I have owned both and both were solid...

 

[rtp]

Some level of suspension would be great, I do not plan on doing any "off roading" but I do bike on some more unkempt bike trails in my area. My current mountain bike and the previous ebike just had front suspension and that worked perfectly well. I would mainly use it for those trails and then around my down town area. I do not live in a city and I am located in the USA.

Something like this might be a fit. Lots of other options depending on budget..

F5 Trail - Hardtail Electric Mountain Bike

Our Trail 27.5" hardtail eMtb rocks a 500W Bafang mid-drive motor and handles any terrain with Maxxis off road tires and Suntour front suspension. Explore your world with 4 piston Magura brakes, integrated 840WH lithium ion battery and more.

flx.bike

A ‘bit’ more, possibly overkill but love mine: https://lunacycle.com/x2-enduro-ebike-1/

 

[Taylor57]

Something like this might be a fit. Lots of other options depending on budget..

F5 Trail - Hardtail Electric Mountain Bike

Our Trail 27.5" hardtail eMtb rocks a 500W Bafang mid-drive motor and handles any terrain with Maxxis off road tires and Suntour front suspension. Explore your world with 4 piston Magura brakes, integrated 840WH lithium ion battery and more.

flx.bike

A ‘bit’ more, possibly overkill but love mine: https://lunacycle.com/x2-enduro-ebike-1/

The F5 looks interesting. And under 3k looks like a decent value. Love the throttle option!

 

[ElevenAD]

Natural pedal assist AND a throttle? Now that is an oxymoron statement if I ever read one. "I need a natural pedal assist on my scooter please"

lmao, do you even ride a bike?

 

[ElevenAD]

If your trying to get close to the feel of the Trek i would look for any bike equipped with a Bafang M600, M620 may be more power than you want?
Either way check Frey bike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Natural pedal assist AND a throttle? Now that is an oxymoron statement if I ever read one. "I need a natural pedal assist on my scooter please"

+1.
People who think a mid-drive motor e-bike equipped with a throttle have probably never learnt what the "natural ride feeling" was.

I'm happy to hear that you are always healthy every day. I like to exercise with my bike, but a few days a year I can't even walk without a cane.

If that matters, I can hardly walk but I can pedal a bike. If someone is so ailing they cannot pedal, let them ride on throttle but not expect any "natural ride feeling" experience.

 

[teskow]

I'm happy to hear that you are always healthy every day. I like to exercise with my bike, but a few days a year I can't even walk without a cane. If I'm 27 miles from home when that happens, begging for a ride to town and leaving my bike out there stranded is the only option. Or let the bike pull me home with the throttle. Taxis will not serve that location. Electric wheelchairs do not have the range and cannot negotiate the ditches along the road. Which is why I electrified my 24 speed cargo bike in the first place. Torque sensing would be really nice.
How did you spend your 20's? I spent mine pounding my knees to the bone for Uncle Sam. My friends and neighbors gave me a draft # of 37 out of 366, to make my future obvious in 1969.

It doesn't't seem prudent to be riding a bike 27 miles from home in the condition you are in without someone you can call to rescue you and bike if needed.

 

[rtp]

+1.
People who think a mid-drive motor e-bike equipped with a throttle have probably never learnt what the "natural ride feeling" was.

Untrue, or certainly at least not even as a 'most' let alone 'all' statement.
I can only think of 3 times I've ever touched my throttle on my X2:
1. After it was put together on day 1 just to ensure everything works.
2. On an overly muddy hilly trail that I'd stopped on after wife's bike went down on, happened quickly enough I was stuck in a too high gear, so used to get unstuck and to lower gear then moved on via pedals.
3. Random check of top speed on pedal vs throttle.
That's pretty much it. Just because a bike has a throttle doesn't mean it's used or even as a primary mode of operation. I think I've put the X2 in 'Ludicrous' mode either once or zero times as well. I also made some requests for user-configurable ramps on the LudiV2 controller. Why? I felt the power came on slightly too suddenly in too short of a time initially - still overall very good torque-sensing, but I wanted to 'dampen' it slightly at the start of power/torque.

If that matters, I can hardly walk but I can pedal a bike. If someone is so ailing they cannot pedal, let them ride on throttle but not expect any "natural ride feeling" experience.

Eh. I despise people on Surrons and e-motorcycles tearing crap up and pretending they're on an 'ebike' and screwing things up for analog and more or less bicycle-like ebikes, but no issue on throttles for anyone, as long as they aren't using it to e.g. tear up trails that others use. Also have no real beef with Surrons or faster existing, but clearly they are not remotely bicycle in speed or operation. If someone over-exerts themself on a ride, it would sure be nice for them to at least 'coast it in' via throttle compared to getting stuck.

 

[ElevenAD]

+1.
People who think a mid-drive motor e-bike equipped with a throttle have probably never learnt what the "natural ride feeling" was.

If that matters, I can hardly walk but I can pedal a bike. If someone is so ailing they cannot pedal, let them ride on throttle but not expect any "natural ride feeling" experience.

I feel like you need to own a throttle equipped bike to really understand the benefits.
Having a well calibrated throttle combined with a well tuned torque sensor is a very useful combination. Im thinking of the last few times i touched my throttle and none of them had anything to do with my inability to pedal, ill tap it when climbing on dirt and rock at low speed, it really comes in handy when im shifting my weight and want to keep the pedals fixed for a second, also all of my bikes have low clearance so i will end up hitting the throttle when riding over sticks or rocks that could cause pedal strikes, with the throttle i can keep the pedals at 3&9 until im over the obstacle, not to mention the times i needed to get out of the danger zone when commuting.
A throttle can very handy as long as it is tuned properly, i stress properly tuned.
Maybe they are not something you use every ride but its nice to have when you need it.