Help finding a mid-drive, torque ebike with a throttle and natural pedal assist?

A lot of the confusion over throttles stems from the fact they are illegal in both the UK and in Europe (EU). An ebike with a throttle is classed as a moped ie a motorbike and needs a licence and vehicle insurance and tax etc etc. That's a market of over 500 million people so international bike manufacturers probably don't use throttles because of the hassle.

That's not say there are no throttle bikes in Europe or UK. There are loads! A lot of the Chinese brands and other brands you see on here. Certainly in the UK given how the police seem to care little if your bike is stolen, they don't (so far) seem to pay any attention to either throttles or the legal speed cut offs, max power etc. At least in my experience. Nor does there seem to be anything stopping companies from selling throttle equipped bikes, which is a bit odd, legally. I mean who is at fault if you buy a bike from a company legally, but riding it unlicensed is illegal? Law not thought out very well. I guess apart from breaking the law the other consideration is if you are involved in a bad vehicle or pedestrian collision and you have a throttle, they'll throw the book at you for riding a vehicle not fit for road use.

So the constant discussion of throttle bikes on here, by US Brands that don't sell or sell very few in Europe sounds odd to my ears, because I have zero experience with them.

Lastly this is off topic but talking about throttles, I'm a huge fan of Jeff Jones bikes and love his recent mad speed experiments with e bikes and building 50mph, basically electric motorbikes!

lmao, do you even ride a bike
 
I feel like you need to own a throttle equipped bike to really understand the benefits.
Having a well calibrated throttle combined with a well tuned torque sensor is a very useful combination. Im thinking of the last few times i touched my throttle and none of them had anything to do with my inability to pedal, ill tap it when climbing on dirt and rock at low speed, it really comes in handy when im shifting my weight and want to keep the pedals fixed for a second, also all of my bikes have low clearance so i will end up hitting the throttle when riding over sticks or rocks that could cause pedal strikes, with the throttle i can keep the pedals at 3&9 until im over the obstacle, not to mention the times i needed to get out of the danger zone when commuting.
A throttle can very handy as long as it is tuned properly, i stress properly tuned.
Maybe they are not something you use every ride but its nice to have when you need it.
Hits the nail on the head. Very well said.
 
I feel like you need to own a throttle equipped bike to really understand the benefits.
Having a well calibrated throttle combined with a well tuned torque sensor is a very useful combination. Im thinking of the last few times i touched my throttle and none of them had anything to do with my inability to pedal, ill tap it when climbing on dirt and rock at low speed, it really comes in handy when im shifting my weight and want to keep the pedals fixed for a second, also all of my bikes have low clearance so i will end up hitting the throttle when riding over sticks or rocks that could cause pedal strikes, with the throttle i can keep the pedals at 3&9 until im over the obstacle, not to mention the times i needed to get out of the danger zone when commuting.
A throttle can very handy as long as it is tuned properly, i stress properly tuned.
Maybe they are not something you use every ride but its nice to have when you need it.
You need to ride a lightweight low power e-bike to really understand what the "natural ride feeling is". Especially if you ride such an e-bike in the OFF mode.
 
UK & EU EBike regs are identical as UK hasn't bothered changing them since Brexit. Throttle bikes are popular in most cities especially with food delivery riders.
 
A lot of the confusion over throttles stems from the fact they are illegal [...] in Europe (EU).
That's not say there are no throttle bikes in [...] UK.

I would not touch the Irish matters here. I did not see throttle e-bikes in Dublin but perhaps I was more interested in the city. I should have said "visit continental Europe" to see how many throttle e-bikes you could spot there. FYI, been to the UK for many times, and in Dublin once.

The little difference between the UK and the continental Europe is both the police and citizens give a s*it in Britain (at least in relation to e-bikes). It was not me to coin the "UK is the US of Europe" :)
 
A good reading, Ras:
 
I'm not sure what that article has to do with e bikes...
I haven't been to Poland but I was in Amsterdam and Strasbourg and Vienna last few years and saw some Chinese type kit bikes there. Amsterdam had a lot. (among a sea of many many bikes) and also Belgrade where I was working last year had loads of uber eats type delivery bikes with kit motors throttles etc. I know Serbia isn't EU yet but it looks likely most cities have them as they are cheap & cheerful for students & gig economy riders. Dublin and Cork definitely do have some, perhaps not as many as London or Belgrade. Anyway Im not sure if this has anything to do with my original post which was to explain to North Americans on here the different legal situation on throttles in different countries. I have a friend who built up a Bafang mid drive based on a 90s MTB. It's solid and useful and he gets great use out of it. And the total build was £800. A bargain! Bit heavy for me but also I can't see myself buying a full fat e bike either. I bought the SL for exercise! Horses for courses. I do think Bafang are getting more and more interesting. Even having an SL motor developed with EU emtb brand Forestal (Eon drive) And having repairable motors can only be a good thing. I'm out of warranty so next time my motor goes phuuuut I'm going to need to find someone to repair it.
 
You need to ride a lightweight low power e-bike to really understand what the "natural ride feeling is". Especially if you ride such an e-bike in the OFF mode.
That may be true, but there are degrees of things, Stefan. I've ridden unmotorized road and mountain bikes for decades and know exactly what they feel like.

My lowly torque-sensing, hub-drive ebike feels natural enough that I never think about it. And the throttle adds capabilities that I could have used many, many times in my pre-ebike days — mainly for safety reasons.

I'll be forever grateful to this lowly ebike for enabling a joyous return to cycling that probably wouldn't have happened otherwise. Bought it at the top of our budget at a time when money was flying out the door to fund our brilliant move to San Diego. A Specialized Turbo Dinero was simply out of the question, then and now.

Should I have waited till I could afford a high-end ebike you'd approve of, knowing that on a fixed income now, that day might never come?
 
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Belgrade.
Please... Are we now talking the Third World? :D

You mentioned Amsterdam. Who needs an e-bike in a totally flat terrain with the typical commute distance of 5 km, ridden in the sea of bicycles? Copenhagen: The only e-bikes there are cargo ones, and these are pedalled. Ever been to Germany? Ever wondered why Germany was the world capital of e-bikes? Man, the German police used to confiscate illegal VanMoofs! Ever been to France? Heard about the EUR30,000 fine for being caught with a hampered speed restrictor? Italy? Belgium? Anything in the Alps? Czech Republic?
 
That may be true, but there are degrees of things, Stefan.
Besides, is it not the fact only the Class 2 e-bikes may have a throttle in the Unites States? And the motor power shall be limited to 750 W?
Many of you people just ignore the law because nobody can enforce the law.

I'm so glad to have met so many fine people here who can do without the throttle despite their age.
My 75 yo friend has just made 4,000 km this year, unpowered. Yet, the throttle is a must for so many North Americans... No wonder. A 90 lb fat tire monster requires the throttle.
 
I'm not sure what that article has to do with e bikes...
I haven't been to Poland but I was in Amsterdam and Strasbourg and Vienna last few years and saw some Chinese type kit bikes there. Amsterdam had a lot. (among a sea of many many bikes) and also Belgrade where I was working last year had loads of uber eats type delivery bikes with kit motors throttles etc. I know Serbia isn't EU yet but it looks likely most cities have them as they are cheap & cheerful for students & gig economy riders. Dublin and Cork definitely do have some, perhaps not as many as London or Belgrade. Anyway Im not sure if this has anything to do with my original post which was to explain to North Americans on here the different legal situation on throttles in different countries. I have a friend who built up a Bafang mid drive based on a 90s MTB. It's solid and useful and he gets great use out of it. And the total build was £800. A bargain! Bit heavy for me but also I can't see myself buying a full fat e bike either. I bought the SL for exercise! Horses for courses. I do think Bafang are getting more and more interesting. Even having an SL motor developed with EU emtb brand Forestal (Eon drive) And having repairable motors can only be a good thing. I'm out of warranty so next time my motor goes phuuuut I'm going to need to find someone to repair it.
The reason you're having trouble understanding his point is that he has none other than to sling what he considers clever insults.
He knows a 75 year old thats rides without, so that's the benchmark.
He saw a 90lb fat bike... All bikes outside of Europe are now that.
His "facts" are selective and narrow. He knows good and well of Specialized battery fires... but he's yet to admit it here publicly.
Now it's my turn.. Ever wonder why there are so many polish jokes 🙃
 
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Besides, is it not the fact only the Class 2 e-bikes may have a throttle in the Unites States? And the motor power shall be limited to 750 W?
Many of you people just ignore the law because nobody can enforce the law.
All true, and the people who feel they can do anything they want appear to be growing in the US — thanks in no small part to certain prominent politicians of the last 10 years or so.

But that's by no means all of us, so please ease up on the wild generalizations.

Moreover, scofflaws and irresponsible bike riders aren't unique to the US. If the EU had none, the bike laws there would probably be a lot less restrictive.

I'm so glad to have met so many fine people here who can do without the throttle despite their age.
And that makes them superior?
 
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