Shopping for a new Full-Suspension Step-Thru E-Bike w/Throttle -- Best Brand/Model?

[BMWzenRider]

Of the ones you posted, I'd vote for the Frey and then the Biktrix. The Frey looks to have some sort of dual-link suspension (which are hard to design and manfuacture, so hopefully they got it right). The Biktrix appears to be single pivot. The Frey has better components. Its a more upright head angle than the Biktrix. Its hard to find people who actually ride these sorts of bikes on the trails you're riding (I'm sure they are capable, but they seem to mainly be bought by people who want a high power comfortable pavement commuter).

Thank you for your input on the models I have under consideration.

The Frey CC has been the one that I have been coming back to look at most, but it does have the highest step-thru section, so not sure how I would get along with that. It is so high that I might be able to get a real eMBT with the same stand-over height.

Yes, the Biktrix is a single point rear swingarm, but does have a slacker head tube (64-deg vs. 68-deg){69-deg head tube angle on the Homage}, for good off-road steering stability.
In addition, the bike comes with a huge 1.3KwH battery with the option to add an extra 1.1KwH second battery pack for extended range.
Also, the fork can be upgraded at time of purchase.

If you're mainly riding moto trails, you may be a good candidate for something like a Sur-Ron or Talaria Sting. Basically a light e-moto. Keep the R+M for pedal days.

The issue with Sur-Ron and similar is that they are not street legal, so I would have to trailer them to any trails.

I have been considered getting an UBCO 2x2, it has many advantages beyond just being street legal, its party piece is 2-wheel-drive with no chain or belt at all to worry about or maintain, and comes stock with rebound adjustable suspension at each end 130/110mm F/R.

On the downside, it only has 17" wheels so it is not as smooth over rough terrain, the cockpit is just about as cramped as the Honda Trail 125 I had owned, and is factory limited to 30mph top speed to be registered as a moped. That 30mph top speed is on level ground, and does not have the torque to maintain that uphill on the street, so it is a bit of a hazard to be riding something that looks like a motorcycle, but is slower than many ebikes.

 

[BMWzenRider]

The requirements of the step-thru place quite a limit on the choice of bike.

I have to say the Frey C-C is the only step thru that, over the years, I have considered acceptable for that style of frame. Its got good suspension components, a motor that is being run well below its hot rod level capabilities and you can expect to last pretty much forever. It also has been out on the market for several years and has had plenty of time to have bugs turn up (haven't seen any). And as noted above, it looks to use a decent level of engineering in its frame design.

For trails, I have to say a step-thru would be far from my first choice of frame design, but the C-C looks to address (as best as can be) the concerns I would have about the frame working on a rough dirt doubletrack.

I am not jumping off of or over anything nor trying to haul an elk strapped over the rear rack, so I think a step-thru frame will be just fine.

 

[BMWzenRider]

It's pretty close to the largest Homage frame. But yeah, if OP is used to a small or medium it's gonna be kind of big. Some of the reviews have also said it is closer to a mid-step than a low step or step through. Hopefully OP's knees are good with that.

FWIW, Frey was very open to upgrading suspension from the factory upon request when they first released the CC. Not sure if that's still the case now that they gave a US warehouse.

The step-over/stand-over height of the Frey CC is why I have not ordered one yet.
As I mentioned in another post, at 25.6" (650mm) I am not sure that it is much better than the stand-over height of a smaller eMBT frame.

My Homage is the small frame (49cm), which has a step-thru height ranging from 20-22" (508-559mm)

 

[BMWzenRider]

One of my favorite books! I like my hobbies with a side of STEM, and the 3rd and 4th editions are great places to start. The 4th edition (Wilson and Schmidt, 2020) has more ebike-specific coverage, though still not much. Nonetheless, great references on the history of cycling technology and the stuff common to all bicycles. Totally data-driven.

Any other books I should know about?

Good luck with your hunt. Odd how you lay out your use case in a thoughtful and clearly knowledgeable way, and some still can't grasp that you might have good reason to want something they don't.

Right now I cannot think of any other books that rival Bicycling Science, but if any come to mind I will let you know.
And thank you for the well wishes on my quest.

 

[BMWzenRider]

Ranger, reading all of your replies and your background you must have considered riding the very BEST, even if you have to ride less miles per session, haven't you?
LIKE SRAM EAGLE powered ?

Actually I consider the Optibike R22 Everest to be the BEST ebike money can buy.
https://optibike.com/

But it is VERY pricey!
And that list price doesn't even include paint, lights, or a kickstand...

With paint, upgraded front brake rotor, fenders, lights, tire inserts, and a kickstand the price goes up to $21,500.

But just look at those specs!
The suspension has 200mm of rear wheel travel with a shock and downhill fork by Fox.
2,500 watt peak power with 190Nm of torque being multiplied through a Rohloff hub, and 3,260Wh of battery!

If it had a lower stand-over and racks I might already own one.
After all, you can't take it with you, right?

 

[scrambler]

The optibike is a beautiful bike, no question, and unless you are really needing the range, you can take it with the standard battery (lighter and "cheaper").
The only drawback is that last time I checked, they do not have a torque based pedal assist, so mostly a throttle bike....

 

[scrambler]

The Bitrix may be a bit smaller frame and better step thru height than the Frey.
You may also be able to retrofit a Rohloff like Zen did on prototype using the same frame for @Gionnirocket

 

[BMWzenRider]

The optibike is a beautiful bike, no question, and unless you are really needing the range, you can take it with the standard battery (lighter and "cheaper").
The only drawback is that last time I checked, they do not have a torque based pedal assist, so mostly a throttle bike....

Their newly released and upgraded motor now includes torque based pedal assist in addition to the throttle for USA models.
The new motor is also allowing them to sell UK/EU compliant models without a throttle and software limited top speed for the pedal assist, but with all the torque still available.

And yes, they do offer two different lower spec versions which still use the same massively powerful motor but with "only" 1,630Wh of battery.
But when you are already spending at least $14k on an e-bike, why not go ahead and get the big battery?

 

[BMWzenRider]

The Bitrix may be a bit smaller frame and better step thru height than the Frey.
You may also be able to retrofit a Rohloff like Zen did on prototype using the same frame for @Gionnirocket

I have no idea why I hadn't thought of simply getting the rear wheel rebuilt with a Rohloff???
That certainly opens up my options!
Thank you!

 

[jabberwocky]

The step-over/stand-over height of the Frey CC is why I have not ordered one yet.
As I mentioned in another post, at 25.6" (650mm) I am not sure that it is much better than the stand-over height of a smaller eMBT frame.

My Homage is the small frame (49cm), which has a step-thru height ranging from 20-22" (508-559mm)

My main concern with the CC is you would be going from a small frame with a 58.5cm/23" TT to a pretty big frame with a 64cm/25.2" TT. Which is a huge difference in fit, even ignoring standover.

The issue with Sur-Ron and similar is that they are not street legal, so I would have to trailer them to any trails.

Strictly speaking, Bafang Ultra bikes generally aren't street legal either (above the power limit, can throttle higher than ebike legal limits). Easier to get away with it since they look more bike-like though.

There are people who have successfully registered Surrons and similar as motorcycles or mopeds.

I have been considered getting an UBCO 2x2, it has many advantages beyond just being street legal, its party piece is 2-wheel-drive with no chain or belt at all to worry about or maintain, and comes stock with rebound adjustable suspension at each end 130/110mm F/R.

On the downside, it only has 17" wheels so it is not as smooth over rough terrain, the cockpit is just about as cramped as the Honda Trail 125 I had owned, and is factory limited to 30mph top speed to be registered as a moped. That 30mph top speed is on level ground, and does not have the torque to maintain that uphill on the street, so it is a bit of a hazard to be riding something that looks like a motorcycle, but is slower than many ebikes.

I'm somewhat skeptical that any hub motor bike (even a 2wd one) will be a good fit for the trails you posted. Slow speed steep grades are where hub motors tend to really struggle, since they are effectively singlespeed and generally geared for standard road cruising speeds.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The new motor is also allowing them to sell UK/EU compliant models without a throttle and software limited top speed for the pedal assist, but with all the torque still available.

Bullshit. You multiply the torque by 6.28 and get the mechanical power far beyond what is allowed in the EU. Illegal.

 

[BMWzenRider]

Bullshit. You multiply the torque by 6.28 and get the mechanical power far beyond what is allowed in the EU. Illegal.

Take it up with them.

 

[BMWzenRider]

My main concern with the CC is you would be going from a small frame with a 58.5cm/23" TT to a pretty big frame with a 64cm/25.2" TT. Which is a huge difference in fit, even ignoring standover.

I understand, and the frame size is why I didn't buy one when they first came out way earlier than the crop of other full-suspension step-thru models now available.

Strictly speaking, Bafang Ultra bikes generally aren't street legal either (above the power limit, can throttle higher than ebike legal limits). Easier to get away with it since they look more bike-like though.

There are people who have successfully registered Surrons and similar as motorcycles or mopeds.

My understanding is that registering bikes without proper VIN is not very easy in my state.
Not to mention, I am planning to move to another state in the next year or two, with no guarantee they would allow it either.
I would be much more comfortable getting something with a factory assigned VIN if I decide to go that route. There are a number of options out there for that.

I'm somewhat skeptical that any hub motor bike (even a 2wd one) will be a good fit for the trails you posted. Slow speed steep grades are where hub motors tend to really struggle, since they are effectively singlespeed and generally geared for standard road cruising speeds.

Yup, I do understand that hub drives are not the best on hills.
I test rode an UBCO 2x2, and it could not maintain speed uphill even on the street.

 

[m@Robertson]

I test rode an UBCO 2x2, and it could not maintain speed uphill even on the street.

You have already figured this out, but I will echo the concern @jabberwocky voiced, from direct experience.

<intermission>

I built a chromoly-framed 2wd bike that has twin geared-hub Bafang G060 motors (rated for 80 Nm each) and mated them to twin 35a controllers and a 52v battery that has a 90a BMS. So... a pretty big kid on the block, so to speak. It made me giggle commuting with it on flat land, and I put around 7000 miles on it over a few years as a daily driver in the table-flat California Central Valley

Then I took it to the Coast and tried it out on the steep but short hills of the Monterey Bay area. What was once an abundance of power became only adequate. And the groaning I could hear from the motors convinced me I would be turning a powerhouse that would last forever into something struggling that would be destined to die early.

So I built another bike with the same fat front hub but a mid drive in the back and it was utterly unstoppable. I've followed that format twice more since then and its been a great success.

</intermission>

 

[Kayakguy]

Hello all,
It has been a while since I have prowled these forums, but I recall just how helpful everyone was when shopping for my current e-bike.
Now I am hoping that the collective wisdom might be able to sort out a good option for a new model.

Current ride is a R+M Homage GT Rohloff Class-1 with dual-batteries.
View attachment 176950
I really love the Homage and intend to keep it.

At the time I bought the R+M, it was the only step-thru frame with full suspension that I could find anywhere, but in the last year they seem to becoming a more popular style of frame/bike, and I am now looking for a stable-mate with a throttle to ride rougher/steeper off-road trails where a throttle will allow me to ride up hills I would otherwise need to dismount for due to pedal strikes on the current bike.
(or, when my knees are just not in the mood to do much pedaling that day...)

My NEEDS:
1 - A Good Quality Full-Suspension! - My knees are bad enough that I can feel every bump through the pedals with a hard-tail, even with a good suspension seat post on pavement.
2 - Step-Thru frame. - (Or, at least, a very low stand-over height) Again, thank my bad knees for that one.
3 - Throttle. - For riding up steep & rutted trails versus getting off to push the Homage because of pedal strikes preventing me from riding.

My STRONG Wants:
4 - Torque Sensor. - I love the natural feel of a torque sensor. Have had one with a rear hub motor as well, and the difference between torque and cadence sensing is magical.
5 - Class-3 (or better) top speed. - Yeah, I enjoy going fast when safe and legal to do so!
6 - Large battery capacity/range. - Would like at least 50 miles throttle-only range if possible. (Carrying a second battery is always an option for longer rides.)
7 - Dropper seat post, or room in the frame to add one.
8 - Large Diameter Wheels - For smoother ride off-road over bumps & ruts.

My Wish-List Perfect Bike desires:
9 - Mid-Drive Motor - To be able to use gearing for hill-climbing.
10 - Internal Geared Hub/B.B. - Such as my current Rohloff or a Pinion unit. - To avoid getting a smashed derailleur off-road.
11 - Belt Drive - Quiet & Clean!
12 - 2-Wheel-Drive??? - For those REALLY steep, rutted, and loose sections...

------------------------------

As far as e-bike options, I do know of a few potential candidates, but wanted to get some feedback from people who might have some experience with those Brands/Models, or if there are any bikes I have missed?
I know that there are a number of moped-style e-bikes out there, some with full-suspension and step-thru, and some with 2-wheel-drive, but I would prefer to find something with larger diameter wheels/tires if possible.

Potential candidates I have found on my own so far, are:
{click on model names to be taken to the website for each}

• Frey C-C
• View attachment 176941
• Magicycle Deer Step-Thru
• View attachment 176942
• Biktrix Juggernaut FS ST
• View attachment 176944
• Eunorau Specter-ST
• View attachment 176945
• E-Cells Step Star
• View attachment 176946
• Himiway A7 Pro
• View attachment 176947
• Cyrusher Trax
• View attachment 176948
• HeyBike Hero Carbon
• View attachment 176949
• HeyBike Horizon (24")
• View attachment 176951

Does anyone have experience owning/riding any of the above?
Are there any that I have missed?
What about experience with the companies if you have not owned/ridden these exact models?
Build quality, customer service, availability of spare parts, ???

------------------------------

Yes, I would consider a light electric motorcycle, IF, it is street legal and has the real-world speed & range I want/need for the trails I ride when out West.

I did buy one of the new Honda CT-125 Trail bikes when they came out in 2018, and while it worked very well as an off-road mule, the ride quality was atrocious (at least for me).
The suspension had very little travel, and bottomed out easily, and the frame was small enough that my knees were practically in my chest, making things feel even worse on my knees because of the extreme bend.
The smaller, moped-sized wheels didn't help with off-road comfort either.
I was also not a fan of the higher pitched drone of the engine while riding, especially when off-road and back in nature.

---------------------------------

Thank you in advance for your advice and experience.

I don't see IGH on any of the bikes you show.,