Hydra has landed!
- Thread starter kwseattle
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loamoaf
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@kwseattle sick, hopefully you can get riding without any issues today. Beautiful and sunny out on the east side of the lake and it's holding out tomorrow too! I'll have to check out Jay's Hydra thread to see the throttle, thanks. My Garbaruk came in and it looks snazzy - you definitely want the pulleys, look at them! Very easy install too. I'm using titanium pulley bolts and need to scoop some Ti pins for the cage & stopper post too. I have some black Ti adjustment screws too that I originally got for my SRAM and they fit the M8000 fine, pretty much negate the extra weight of the Garbaruk setup (7.9g more) but I promise you Ti hardware looks great but is the most expensive and superfluous way to bling your ride out and save weight... Probably $320ish to do a full hardware swap with Ti hardware (hollow Ti bolts where possible) on my bike to save.... 560g?
@mmcarm I have a Wolftooth dropper lever bolted to the Magura brake clamp - I can't find the thread on EBR or the ES thread it linked to but I was thinking of something more like the ones on this page that are very slim & low-profile on the bars. I'm mulling an e-clutch trigger on the left side so I can manually cut motor power & shift under regular pedal power until the chain is fully on the next cog to preserve drivetrain and my display is also on the left, so I'm trying to keep throttle on the right side as well (makes shifting while under throttle impossible too) - that second pic with the SW102 is super slick though. It's the display I originally wanter just hate how little info the SW102/X1 display shows!
@mmcarm I have a Wolftooth dropper lever bolted to the Magura brake clamp - I can't find the thread on EBR or the ES thread it linked to but I was thinking of something more like the ones on this page that are very slim & low-profile on the bars. I'm mulling an e-clutch trigger on the left side so I can manually cut motor power & shift under regular pedal power until the chain is fully on the next cog to preserve drivetrain and my display is also on the left, so I'm trying to keep throttle on the right side as well (makes shifting while under throttle impossible too) - that second pic with the SW102 is super slick though. It's the display I originally wanter just hate how little info the SW102/X1 display shows!
Wow that looks amazing! I definitely might have to pick up some of those pulleys soon...
I'm glad the weather is holding up, but unfortunately I've got one more class and two meetings until about 3:30...
I just finished swapping my chainring to the outside of the spider, and included some 2.5mm spacers from Wickwerks to space it out even more. I used an additional set of spacers to keep the guard in place. I used a ~16mm set of chainring bolts from Amazon. The chain cross is significantly reduced in the highest gear, so I'm hoping that fixes the skipping! I also need to adjust the derailleur limit screws because I can visually see that they're off - I should probably do a full derailleur adjustment. I'll try and work on that a bit before my next class because I think that might be contributing more to the chain skipping issue now.
The chain also has much more room between itself and the chainstay which is what I was going for, @pushkar I think in future builds you should consider mounting the chainring on the outside with some spacers to prevent that chainstay rubbing issue - and place some protective film on that part of the chainstay as an additional protective measure.
Kind of hard to see, but here's a closeup of the chainring and spacer stack.
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Deacon Blues
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I'm very interested to find out if these mods has eliminated your chain skipping.
loamoaf
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Deacon did you try flopping your chainring outboard? Even without the spacers it should help the situation and if it does then you could surmise that the spacers to get it set properly would correct it completely. You shouldn't need the cage for skipping but more for getting enough engagement on the smaller cogs to not tear them up (if you have your b screw adjusted to clear the tallest cog properly) - 2 separate issues that have semi-similar symptoms. 'tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick' vs 'tick-ticktick-tick-ticktick' if you want to get into the technical jargon of it all
Lsthrz
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Second that! I just got this in today used and cheap. I have the full system with the big pulleys on its way from Garbaruk (not as cheap) as well. Seems the chainring spacing is the bigger issue though.
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loamoaf
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@Lsthrz take note the eccentric pulley on the Wolfcage won't work the same with the Garbaruk pulley in its stead - you may want to check the fit with the stock pulley on the Wolfcage as well as it may not be big enough to take the 16T pulley. Oh wait I just read you have the full Garb setup on the way too ha. The Wolfcage reuses half of the original cage (easier install without removing the derailleur, when swapping the Garbaruk cage on mine it was clear you can't really swap the whole thing while keeping the derailleur on the bike). So you luck out without having to go through the full derailleur setup on yours.
It's almost 3:30 I expect KW to start updating us soon. Even getting the bike up on a stand and going through the cogs pedaling by hand should give an idea how well it works. Man I'm going nuts waiting on my X1 but interacting with people on the sub while I wait has helped big time hehe
It's almost 3:30 I expect KW to start updating us soon. Even getting the bike up on a stand and going through the cogs pedaling by hand should give an idea how well it works. Man I'm going nuts waiting on my X1 but interacting with people on the sub while I wait has helped big time hehe
Looks like you're getting a handle on it. It'd be great for everybody to hear it's a pretty easy fix.
It started raining IMMEDIATELY after I stepped out the door to go for my afternoon test ride... lol
In other news, SUCCESS! The chain cross is much better in all gears and the skipping seems to be almost entirely eliminated in top gear. There were a few slips on the highest gear but I think I just need to play with my derailleur adjustment some more once I have more time, it's not perfectly aligned yet.
Summary for anyone else having this issue:
In other news, SUCCESS! The chain cross is much better in all gears and the skipping seems to be almost entirely eliminated in top gear. There were a few slips on the highest gear but I think I just need to play with my derailleur adjustment some more once I have more time, it's not perfectly aligned yet.
Summary for anyone else having this issue:
- I swapped my chainring to the outboard position on the spider and added a 2.5mm spacer.
- Replaced the Shimano Deore XT (M8000) derailleur cage with a Garbaruk 11 speed cage.
Lsthrz
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Great to hear @kwseattle though I’d like for you to get some better weather soon for more testing.
Lol, me too... It's not supposed to rain tomorrow and I'm less busy so I should be able to ride for a bit!
loamoaf
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I will take my paycheck from WW in the form of 1 (one) shipping confirmation for my order 
glad to hear this got it sorted, just leaves the question as to what happened with the chainline stuff on these recent bikes in the first place. I've already let work know I will be playing in the mountains tomorrow to enjoy the sun, doctor's orders!
glad to hear this got it sorted, just leaves the question as to what happened with the chainline stuff on these recent bikes in the first place. I've already let work know I will be playing in the mountains tomorrow to enjoy the sun, doctor's orders!
@pushkar can this be best practice for new builds going out? I'm lazy and don't want to do this after receiving the bike.
Acme
Well-Known Member
Pushkar‘s bikes are a special item in the world of the bikes. They are heavier than a Levo but they have twice the power. They are not going to be as refined as a product that was designed by a team of engineers in Switzerland. He has done work testing and strengthening the Dengfu frame for the Hydra as well as designing the other frames he is offering. Beyond that he is stuck with using parts that are available. He does the best he can to run his business but he doesn’t personally assemble every bicycle, he is constantly improving however. I have an understanding what he is going through because I to on my own small business.
if you’re not gonna be happy with a product that’s less than perfect I suggest you buy an off-the-shelf and euro style ebike. They are not perfect either but they are certainly better with alignment issues etc. You can go right back to the shop you purchased it at and hopefully they will make it right for you. If you really want power of the Bafang ultra with the German controller you’re going to have to be a lot more involved and able to work through small issues.
just my opinion
You think my ask is not a fair one? It's not like I'm beating them up, just asking for process improvement based on field feedback - you said he's constantly doing that, right?
Lsthrz
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Have to agree with @slocoach here - he is just suggesting WW take this feedback and incorporate into their design and future productions plans.
I think we all appreciate that we are working with Watt Wagons vs Specialized here - or I would hope so.
Improving a design that has the chain eating into the carbon chain stay and an inability to use all the gears smoothly on a bike is just valuable feedback to WW. I haven't seen anyone (recently
) on this thread vilifying @pushkar or the Company. In fact, I'd say it's been a pretty positive 'how can we make this better' input from a number of us.
I think we all appreciate that we are working with Watt Wagons vs Specialized here - or I would hope so.
Improving a design that has the chain eating into the carbon chain stay and an inability to use all the gears smoothly on a bike is just valuable feedback to WW. I haven't seen anyone (recently
) on this thread vilifying @pushkar or the Company. In fact, I'd say it's been a pretty positive 'how can we make this better' input from a number of us.Test run review:
Derailleur needs some slight adjustments to lock into every gear correctly but the
Went out for another ride today - almost drove out to a bike/hiking park but I can't really figure out their e bike rules so I just rode locally. I did another full derailleur adjustment because it was skipping in a couple of lower gears, everything seems smooth now except every once in a while on higher power settings in the highest gear it'll slip a tooth. Thinking maybe the b screw adjustment might help with that one, but it doesn't seem to make a huge difference on high gears since the gap is much larger. I could also just be exceeding the torque limits of a gear designed for low torque/high speed.
@loamoaf going to have to get some more park trail advice from you!
Derailleur needs some slight adjustments to lock into every gear correctly but the
Definitely agreed.Have to agree with @slocoach here - he is just suggesting WW take this feedback and incorporate into their design and future productions plans.
I think we all appreciate that we are working with Watt Wagons vs Specialized here - or I would hope so.
Improving a design that has the chain eating into the carbon chain stay and an inability to use all the gears smoothly on a bike is just valuable feedback to WW. I haven't seen anyone (recently
Went out for another ride today - almost drove out to a bike/hiking park but I can't really figure out their e bike rules so I just rode locally. I did another full derailleur adjustment because it was skipping in a couple of lower gears, everything seems smooth now except every once in a while on higher power settings in the highest gear it'll slip a tooth. Thinking maybe the b screw adjustment might help with that one, but it doesn't seem to make a huge difference on high gears since the gap is much larger. I could also just be exceeding the torque limits of a gear designed for low torque/high speed.
@loamoaf going to have to get some more park trail advice from you!
Lsthrz
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Hmmmm… so it’s better than when you first got it? Sounds like a step forward but I’m not excited that you are still getting that high gear slip
Significantly improved... But that slip is still happening a little bit. It's no longer rattling with high power in that gear, but it'll just slip a tooth every once in a while. I might actually try and stick my tiny Insta360 camera on there the next chance I can get for some testing, maybe that'll give me some insight.Hmmmm… so it’s better than when you first got it? Sounds like a step forward but I’m not excited that you are still getting that high gear slip
I'm wondering if maybe there's a bent tooth on the smallest cog.
loamoaf
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Using the b-screw to get nice and close to the little cog should help with skipping but there's definitely a limit to what can be asked of such a tiny cog, but cool to hear it's mostly solved. My chainring came in the other day and it looks like I need some 2.5mm spacers to get the chainring on the outside of the spider as it's directional and only has standoffs machined into the ring for mounting inside the chainring. Trailforks seems to help with finding ebike-friendly trails. Looks like in town it's St Edwards State Park & Blyth. You could try your luck at Soaring Eagle too, but I'd try to find if there's any "No ebikes" signs there first. I haven't been in a while. I'm currently trying to snag bobcat I bumped into on a camera trap at St Edwards, it's a nice park but idk how the mtb trails are - but they are ebike friendly. That's probably where I'll be test riding before I set out anywhere else since it's so close. Mukilteo & Whidbey look like they have some decent mtb trails open to ebikes as well. Sucks that a lot of what I see with the filters is mostly access roads or super double triple black diamond kill yourself moto trails.
www.trailforks.com
I do have to agree with others though - on a car analogy this isn't something like stitching on leather seats not being flawless or a little gap in a dashboard panel. This is like the axle is grinding away part of the control arm and if unnoticed/unaddressed will lead to catastrophic failure & likely injury. If they ship a bunch of bikes with this issue and people don't notice it, all it takes is 2 or 3 people getting hurt from the same failure to do in the business either from tarnished reputation, or litigation. Cosmetic issues and minor adjustment is to be expected, but a mismatch like this is a little bit more - a parts compatibility issue - which no bike should ship with. It's definitely important for Pushkar to be aware of these issues as the owner of the business to ensure steps are taken so they don't continue, even if he isn't incredibly involved in assembly it wouldn't be a bad idea to personally test ride each bike. In fact having someone who didn't assemble it inspect and do final QA is a smart idea just for a fresh set of eyes and there is no subconscious bias in favor of the work done (I'm guilty of this too which is exactly why at my job we have very frequent reviews and get constant feedback when necessary)
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I do have to agree with others though - on a car analogy this isn't something like stitching on leather seats not being flawless or a little gap in a dashboard panel. This is like the axle is grinding away part of the control arm and if unnoticed/unaddressed will lead to catastrophic failure & likely injury. If they ship a bunch of bikes with this issue and people don't notice it, all it takes is 2 or 3 people getting hurt from the same failure to do in the business either from tarnished reputation, or litigation. Cosmetic issues and minor adjustment is to be expected, but a mismatch like this is a little bit more - a parts compatibility issue - which no bike should ship with. It's definitely important for Pushkar to be aware of these issues as the owner of the business to ensure steps are taken so they don't continue, even if he isn't incredibly involved in assembly it wouldn't be a bad idea to personally test ride each bike. In fact having someone who didn't assemble it inspect and do final QA is a smart idea just for a fresh set of eyes and there is no subconscious bias in favor of the work done (I'm guilty of this too which is exactly why at my job we have very frequent reviews and get constant feedback when necessary)
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