Hydra has landed!

Just spoke with the LBS that is helping me with the Hydra. No joy I’m afraid. Tried swapping to a different cassette and also moving the chain ring outboard with spacers but could not get any real improvement on the skipping issue in the smallest cog, really the smallest two cogs, so bike will be as I dropped it off. I never really thought the cassette was the issue but thought it was worth a try. The opinion seems to be that the motor is just too much for the small cogs, there is zero issue under any torque in the other gears.
I have the Garbaruk system coming in next week and will throw that on and hope for the best.
Good news is that almost all of my riding is on trails where I am not in the 11/12 cog range.
 
I tested the M8100 derailleur with the 11-51T cassette. I could only make the 11T skip once on two passes before the battery hit the 50 amp shut down. The B screw is adjusted closer than recommended. This is only a problem if you're pedalling slowly and downshift 4 gears at once causing the cage to crash into the cassette.
IMG_20211116_201833~2.jpg


Here is the supplied M8000 for reference.
IMG_20211030_172042~2.jpg
 
TDA78 said:
I tested the M8100 derailleur with the 11-51T cassette. I could only make the 11T skip once on two passes before the battery hit the 50 amp shut down. The B screw is adjusted closer than recommended. This is only a problem if you're pedalling slowly and downshift 4 gears at once causing the cage to crash into the cassette.
View attachment 107242

Here is the supplied M8000 for reference.
View attachment 107243
Click to expand...
Great news. To be clear you were riding fast in the 11t and experienced only a single skip? How’d you get your hands on a M8100?!?
 
To @TDA78 's point about multiple shifts causing skipping - some of the ebike specific shifters limit shifting to 1 click at a time to prevent this. I know the EX1 does this, I think the M8130 does as well. While the motor can spin fast happily or deliver max torque from a standstill, still probably smart to treat it like an engine with a transmission - except instead of releasing the magic smoke or making peanut butter, if you goof up you may or may not sacrifice a foot to the machine gods or shoot a chainlink into your ass. Going fast in the smaller cogs shouldn't be an issue but accelerating any more than gently in the 11T should be avoided.

I'm kind of wishing I snagged the M8100 RD because it looks awful slick, but whatever. I like my giant Garbaruk pulleys. They go tinnnngggggggg like a tuning fork when I spin them with my finger. How much did you pay for the M8100? I wonder if WW would be able to just switch over now if supply allows it. You don't need the long cage version since these are all 1x groups
 
Lsthrz said:
Just spoke with the LBS that is helping me with the Hydra. No joy I’m afraid. Tried swapping to a different cassette and also moving the chain ring outboard with spacers but could not get any real improvement on the skipping issue in the smallest cog, really the smallest two cogs, so bike will be as I dropped it off. I never really thought the cassette was the issue but thought it was worth a try. The opinion seems to be that the motor is just too much for the small cogs, there is zero issue under any torque in the other gears.
I have the Garbaruk system coming in next week and will throw that on and hope for the best.
Good news is that almost all of my riding is on trails where I am not in the 11/12 cog range.
Click to expand...
Has anyone tried a Box 9 setup or similar on a Hydra?
 
I did realize I forgot to enable the clutch on my derailleur, but I wasn't on any rough terrain when the skips happened, I was on flat road pedaling hard with high assist.

I'm hoping some more B screw adjustment might help, but I don't want to mess up the rest of my now-aligned shifting lol.

TDA78 said:
I was going 31 mph in sport 5 and pedalling as hard as I could when the skip happened.

BikeComponents.ca has a few.
Click to expand...
Does it matter that it's a 12 speed derailleur with the 11 speed cassette?
 
Last edited:
@kwseattle the M8000 shifter determines the range & spacing, so the 12spd derailleur would only have the range of movement to cover 11 gears, at 11-spd spacing. I'm not up to date on everything but I think all Shimano derailleurs use the exact same pull ratio so they can be mix n matched - that or the Shimano MTB range is all the same and then the road range is all the same.

This thread on singletrackworld - several members confirm the setup works
 
Sounds like the M8100 is a solution and a big improvement over the skipping with the 8000. I have one on the way.
 
Lsthrz said:
Sounds like the M8100 is a solution and a big improvement over the skipping with the 8000. I have one on the way.
Click to expand...
I'm considering it too... have to remember that we can always sell off our extra parts or keep them as spares.
 
If you are going to ride aggressively at the top of the power, It could be worth increasing front and back sprocket sizes so the smallest cog is not so small...
Or go IGH of course :)
 
TDA78 said:
I tested the M8100 derailleur with the 11-51T cassette. I could only make the 11T skip once on two passes before the battery hit the 50 amp shut down. The B screw is adjusted closer than recommended. This is only a problem if you're pedalling slowly and downshift 4 gears at once causing the cage to crash into the cassette.
View attachment 107242

Here is the supplied M8000 for reference.
View attachment 107243
Click to expand...

Can you tell me what I'd look at in these to photos to see the difference and how the 8100 reduces skipping.
If I have a Shimano 8000 cassette that I can install wouldn't that work best with the 8100 derailleur?
 
@Lsthrz take some pictures and compare the 8100 cage to the Garbaruk cage if you haven't had the opportunity to cancel your order for the Garb when they arrive. More than likely a very similar position of the guide pulley (the one closest to the cogs in the cassette)

@Deacon Blues look at how close the guide pulley on the 8100 is to the cog compared to the 8000. If you were to adjust to get the close on the 8000, it would run into interference issues on the taller cogs. Draw a straight line where the chain is straight between the two (cog & guide pulley) and if you rolled the 8000's pulley back along the chain to the same general position the 8100's is, there would still be a wider gap between the the gears. An easier way to spot the difference is look at the chain link's position where it crosses behind the derailleur hanger. The 8100 is getting at least 1 more tooth of engagement as well. What's the range of your 8000 cassette? If it's 11-46T or smaller you shouldn't need the 8100

I'd hold off on ordering an 8100 if you already have a Garbaruk in hand or on the way until we can see a comparison between that & the 8100 cage. I'm sorry if I wound up with anyone buying a cage and derailleur I swear I didn't come to spend your money and I'm not a Garbaruk sales rep - I swear it!
 
Thanks @loamoaf , I'm right there with you: it looks like the 8100 will be the best solution and I will return the Garbaruk unless I am overwhelmed by the bling factor of the G lol
 
loamoaf said:
I'd hold off on ordering an 8100 if you already have a Garbaruk in hand or on the way until we can see a comparison between that & the 8100 cage. I'm sorry if I wound up with anyone buying a cage and derailleur I swear I didn't come to spend your money and I'm not a Garbaruk sales rep - I swear it!
Click to expand...
Uh huh :rolleyes:
Now you tell me!
 
I've been had!

Good news is if you prefer the 8100 and still want some bling I believe Garbaruk has 14T pulleys for the 12s derailleurs. I think if you're just looking for the pulleys you have quite a few aftermarket options

Once again, I can't emphasize this enough I'm not affiliated with anyone!
 
Acme said:
You had 2300w connecting with six teeth on the cassette, pedaling as fast as you could and it skipped
Click to expand...
That beats skipping constantly in the three highest cogs with the derailleur that came with the bike. We're all curious which derailler/casette combo you received. Ours were mismatched.
 
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