ElevenAD
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OMG! Im actually drooling here! Love it!
I hope they dont make these in green, if they do im in trouble!
2022 - Top 12 Bafang Ultra M620 Ebikes
- Thread starter Ebiker33
- Start date
I hope they dont make these in green, if they do im in trouble!
ElevenAD
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Good question but with the current price of a Kindernay i fear we will be waiting a long time for an answer.
Ooo, sweet. That is exactly what I’m looking for.#14 I would add one bike with the note that it's an Ultra hardtail that DOESN'T come with fat tires under it....at a pretty reasonable price.
The Rize RX!
Rize RX: Unleash the Ultimate Power with the Most Powerful E-Bike Mid-Drive Motor
Discover the Rize RX, the e-bike with the most powerful mid-drive motor on the market. Experience unmatched torque, comfort, and extended range up to 80 miles. Embark on unforgettable off-road adventures with our robust 52v system and 1000w Bafang motor. Your journey to the wild starts here...rizebikes.ca
It doesn’t appear the Sondors is an Ultra.
ElevenAD
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It is for sure an Ultra, Sonders just tune theirs down to 750nominal/ 1150peak to reduce component wear.
Also the motor on the Cruiser model has a protective cover over it.
Ah OK. I was skeptical due to the specs and Sondors not mentioning what motor they were running.
The Sondors LX & Crusier along with the Rize RX are top contenders for my next bike.
I assume the motors are all canbus requiring a swap to a UART motor if you want an aftermarket controller.
Ebiker33
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Is there a non-canbus ultra for any 2022/23 model Ebike at this point ?
I know Biktrix was working on something, not sure where Roshan is at with it, but it looks like they started to develop their own in house motors for some models now.
AHicks
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Not that I'm aware of. Frey maybe?
ElevenAD
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Yeah unfortunately by now i think most companies are using the new canbus motors. Maybe contact Wattwagon?
No. On my Rize RX (2021-2022 version), when riding steep uphill with no wind, I can get, maybe, into the low 20s. Like 20-22 mph. With a serious wind it might struggle to reach 20 mph. This depends, of course, on how steep of a hill you're talking about.
On a flat road, with no wind, if I'm peddling hard and the battery is near full, I can reach 36-37 mph, but usually can't go much above 33 mph.
This also depends on wind resistance- I've installed various things that might increase resistance, such as a side mirror, phone holder, pannier bag, etc.
Also, if the battery is low, the max power drops dramatically. Below a reading of around 28% it seems to max out at around 500 watts, and the bike becomes much slower.
Given that the Bafang Ultra is the most powerful consumer ebike motor out there, to ride uphill at 35 mph against wind, I think you'd need something more in the range of an electric motorcycle. 1500 watts / 160 nm won't do that.
taserface
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I asked about this in a Biktrix thread, but this may be a better spot to follow up on this CANBUS stuff...
The CANBUS shift has me quite concerned (as I have always read poor feedback about the stock settings and different bikes/setups warrant different settings), but I don't have a great grasp on the current state of things after trying to catch up (particularly any developments in the last 6-9 months). I'm catching up from ~2017/2018 and am looking to upgrade my old BBSHD bike to something w/ good/smooth/responsive torque sensing...
- Are bike dealers still hamstrung on being able to do any customizations for their bikes? Do they have any means to create their own custom firmware targeted for their SKUs? Is there any transparency about what can/cannot be done being provided?
- Any known plans from Bafang to allow more customization via CANBUS going forward (even if behind a paywall of some sort, etc)?
- Are there any sellers still sourcing UART version... or have better means than others to customize (Biktrix, Frey, etc, etc)?
- Has anyone taken delivery of a Bafang Ultra (or other torque sense CANBUS Bafang model) and evaluated the tuning in recent months (CANBUS model)? Any changes from early stock CANBUS settings/tuning?
I am in the market for an ebike in the 3.5-5k range, but am starting to consider the DIY route or something with a custom controller, etc (EG: maybe Luna Z1 w/ VESC?)... though, would prefer to get one of a handful of Bafang Ultra centric bikes that otherwise check all my boxes and be done w/ it (but absolutely don't want to spend that much money to be locked into something I am not happy with). I was close to buying a Biktrix UB2 last week prior seeing all of this
.
(If anyone else has been in a similar spot with a recent purchase, I'd be interested to know your line of thinking, what you did, and if you are happy w/ your decision or would consider changing anything if you were to do it over, etc.)
(I also just don't understand Bafang's intention with all of this. They have no apparent means to monetize the shift to CANBUS, correct? (at least so far) I understand CANBUS gives them more proprietary control, but what are they gaining in said control without some means to charge users for access, etc? If they paywalled "advanced tuning access" for $99 or whatever, I could at least see the payoff for them... but current state (from what I know) just seems like it is simply worse for all involved (unless I'm missing something).)
Thanks!
The CANBUS shift has me quite concerned (as I have always read poor feedback about the stock settings and different bikes/setups warrant different settings), but I don't have a great grasp on the current state of things after trying to catch up (particularly any developments in the last 6-9 months). I'm catching up from ~2017/2018 and am looking to upgrade my old BBSHD bike to something w/ good/smooth/responsive torque sensing...
- Are bike dealers still hamstrung on being able to do any customizations for their bikes? Do they have any means to create their own custom firmware targeted for their SKUs? Is there any transparency about what can/cannot be done being provided?
- Any known plans from Bafang to allow more customization via CANBUS going forward (even if behind a paywall of some sort, etc)?
- Are there any sellers still sourcing UART version... or have better means than others to customize (Biktrix, Frey, etc, etc)?
- Has anyone taken delivery of a Bafang Ultra (or other torque sense CANBUS Bafang model) and evaluated the tuning in recent months (CANBUS model)? Any changes from early stock CANBUS settings/tuning?
I am in the market for an ebike in the 3.5-5k range, but am starting to consider the DIY route or something with a custom controller, etc (EG: maybe Luna Z1 w/ VESC?)... though, would prefer to get one of a handful of Bafang Ultra centric bikes that otherwise check all my boxes and be done w/ it (but absolutely don't want to spend that much money to be locked into something I am not happy with). I was close to buying a Biktrix UB2 last week prior seeing all of this
.(If anyone else has been in a similar spot with a recent purchase, I'd be interested to know your line of thinking, what you did, and if you are happy w/ your decision or would consider changing anything if you were to do it over, etc.)
(I also just don't understand Bafang's intention with all of this. They have no apparent means to monetize the shift to CANBUS, correct? (at least so far) I understand CANBUS gives them more proprietary control, but what are they gaining in said control without some means to charge users for access, etc? If they paywalled "advanced tuning access" for $99 or whatever, I could at least see the payoff for them... but current state (from what I know) just seems like it is simply worse for all involved (unless I'm missing something).)
Thanks!
AHicks
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No changes in the recent Ultra CANBUS scene, none that I'm aware of anyway. You are just one of a LOT of people wondering why Bafang went this way. There's a theory it was done for warranty purposes, but it doesn't hold much water. When you consider the potential sales that have been lost due to CANBUS for instance, that's a LOT of money. I would think that warranty claims could easily be covered with their profits from those sales.I asked about this in a Biktrix thread, but this may be a better spot to follow up on this CANBUS stuff...
The CANBUS shift has me quite concerned (as I have always read poor feedback about the stock settings and different bikes/setups warrant different settings), but I don't have a great grasp on the current state of things after trying to catch up (particularly any developments in the last 6-9 months). I'm catching up from ~2017/2018 and am looking to upgrade my old BBSHD bike to something w/ good/smooth/responsive torque sensing...
- Are bike dealers still hamstrung on being able to do any customizations for their bikes? Do they have any means to create their own custom firmware targeted for their SKUs? Is there any transparency about what can/cannot be done being provided?
- Any known plans from Bafang to allow more customization via CANBUS going forward (even if behind a paywall of some sort, etc)?
- Are there any sellers still sourcing UART version... or have better means than others to customize (Biktrix, Frey, etc, etc)?
- Has anyone taken delivery of a Bafang Ultra (or other torque sense CANBUS Bafang model) and evaluated the tuning in recent months (CANBUS model)? Any changes from early stock CANBUS settings/tuning?
I am in the market for an ebike in the 3.5-5k range, but am starting to consider the DIY route or something with a custom controller, etc (EG: maybe Luna Z1 w/ VESC?)... though, would prefer to get one of a handful of Bafang Ultra centric bikes that otherwise check all my boxes and be done w/ it (but absolutely don't want to spend that much money to be locked into something I am not happy with). I was close to buying a Biktrix UB2 last week prior seeing all of this
(If anyone else has been in a similar spot with a recent purchase, I'd be interested to know your line of thinking, what you did, and if you are happy w/ your decision or would consider changing anything if you were to do it over, etc.)
(I also just don't understand Bafang's intention with all of this. They have no apparent means to monetize the shift to CANBUS, correct? (at least so far) I understand CANBUS gives them more proprietary control, but what are they gaining in said control without some means to charge users for access, etc? If they paywalled "advanced tuning access" for $99 or whatever, I could at least see the payoff for them... but current state (from what I know) just seems like it is simply worse for all involved (unless I'm missing something).)
Thanks!
Yes, there are brainiacs trying to break the CANBUS code. Some have managed that, but on a very limited basis, not enough to even talk about.
NOBODY can reprogram a CANBUS motor, not even the bike manf's. Anyone that says they can is probably stretching the truth....
Recent M600 motors do seem to have been improved programming - and they're now quiet. I bought one, and it seems to work pretty good - but I still don't think it's up to the standards available with the UART based Ultra's.
utilbike
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FLX Blade Belt Drive 1000W is about to get a promo price drop. Worth a look. https://flx.bike/products/blade-2-0
Ebiker33
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In regards to the M600 is that a factory one with no upgrades or an upgraded one with V2 Peek gear and controller?
AHicks
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All factory, with no aftermarket parts. It's a 2 month old Evelo Atlas. I was prepared to install a PEEK gear if necessary, but this thing is quiet!
Atlas
Get all the features you want to explore 100-mile range in style. Includes the Enviolo CVT gearing system, Carbon Belt Drive, and a phenomenally powerful motor system. Plus 120 N.m. Torque with1200 Watts Peak Power you'll never worry about hills again.
evelo.com
The detuned Sondors Ultra bikes have had rear hub issues. I had an LX on an original preorder, but canceled when can-bus was confirmed. That led to me considering a Frey CC. After reading Tom D's review I ordered one. Full suspension step thru mid drive is Just what a old dude needed. Made sure I got the UART. Definitely my best e-bike purchase ever. I will add a robust IGH like this when it is commercially available. https://www.3x3.bike/en/nine-gear-hub/
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Costco has the Sondors Cruiser for $2799 until 12/18/22. https://www.costco.com/.product.4000091670.html
The 3x3 still can not take 1:1 full torque from the motor + rider according to the peak torque rating. A 200lb rider standing on the cranks at horizontal produces about 160Nm to add to the Ultra's 160nM so total torque exceeds all IGH torque ratings if the drive ratio is not increased for speed (it's the way the industry has been protecting the IGHs while they claim they do it because planet gear designs have underdrive).
Revolute Hub 1 is the most appealing hub at the moment. It has 250 Nm torque rate (Rohloff and Kindernay are rated around 160 Nm) so it is more durable, 3.15 maximum internal gear ratio (Kindernay XIV and Rohloff have 1.47 max internal gear ratio and Kindernay VII has 2.1) so it will go faster, it allows to shift under load (Kindernay and Rohloff are hard to shift under load and not really recommended for longevity reasons), it uses standard interface for the brake disk (Rohloff, Kindernay and 3x3 use proprietary brake disk interface and custom brake disks) so you can use any brake system you like and save money.
www.revolute.de
Revolute
www.revolute.de
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