2022 - Top 12 Bafang Ultra M620 Ebikes
- Thread starter Ebiker33
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Just bought a new Rize RX for $2899. Seemed like a decent value. It's not top shelf components but man, after riding 250 watts for the last 4 years on my Yamaha/Haibike I'm all smiles.. The ultra motor is just amazing.. The only thing I don't like is motor run on after you stop pedaling. I'll get used to it but it shouldn't do that IMO. Bike arrived in perfect condition but I can't get the front fender to fit w/o it rubbing the tire. 1st world problems
Chapooski
Member
I was hoping a dedicated cargo bike would show up in this list, but I haven't noticed one yet.
A bike such as this:
https://lectricebikes.com/products/...0akNIw5l83pMZwVX0bKET4O9SaakvXeBSndsdv2LvtK_M
with the Bafang M620 would seem like a good idea.
A bike such as this:
https://lectricebikes.com/products/...0akNIw5l83pMZwVX0bKET4O9SaakvXeBSndsdv2LvtK_M
with the Bafang M620 would seem like a good idea.
Unfortunately I think manufactures are shy to put the M620 in their bikes for legal reasons. Of course they can always add the disclaimer "for off road use only" as many do but that's a bit of a joke when you see urban bikes with the M620, obviously made for street or trail use
Chapooski
Member
I would even be happy with a 750 watt Bafang BBS02 running on 52 volts as an option on one of these dedicated cargo bikes.
ProphetZarquon
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Same data can (& does, when installed) get sent over UART: CANBus does not carry any different type of data (data is independent of how it's carried); UART & CANBus are just protocols by which data is carried.
CANBus can use fewer wires, but the main reason OEMs like it, is the protocol's device-ID keying scheme which makes it super simple to build systems that reject 3rd party parts / diagnostic etc.
It's often considered unnecessary, because the consistency of cells is currently much better than it used to be... If you look at the shelf life of storage devices, you can see a great example of extremely consistent products that then became much less consistent in recent years. Manufacturing lines experience wear, & the same practices that lead companies to continue using worn machines, lead companies to skimp on quality control.
So, right now, it's pretty easy to get well-matched cells that can be grouped together reliably... but 1) that hasn't been especially true in the past; 2) there seems ample evidence it can't be taken on faith going forward; 3) the higher the cell capacity, the more significant charge-acceptance mismatch that can occur...
It's usually not at all necessary, it costs extra material & labor to produce, & battery monitoring actually saps enough power that per-cell monitoring can be relatively inefficient, but I'm mostly referring to what I'd like if building my own pack, where I'm not inclined to leave anything (even my own testing) to trust. On a manufactured pack... none of my current ebike batteries have a per-cell BMS, & the wall unit that does, uses old used cells, & it's been years since I saw a high-count pack sold with per-cell BMS advertised, for exactly the reasons above (parts, labor, drain, cell consistency). Yet, on a pack of really high capacity cells... yeah, I'd still want per-cell monitoring.
ProphetZarquon
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Are there any?
ProphetZarquon
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Aside from calibrating the controller's expected baseline from the torque sensor, I'd say that adjusting the delay, decay timing, & decay rate, of the m620, to reduce run-on (without constantly disengaging→engaging→disengaging the motor's tiny pawl clutch) was the most singularly efficacious adjustment I made to our (UART) m620 powered bike. Getting the pedal response just right, meant adjusting some settings multiple times due to adjusting a related setting as well, but oh man it was worth the time & effort:
Whereas the m620 initially felt jerky & over-aggressive – not very fluid, & lots of undue drivetrain\frame stress – it now feels just as smooth & proportional as any Bosch etc I've been on, with my only real complaint being that it's very inefficient at low voltages. (As in, getting more range per Watt-hour, from ~400W than ~300W, when running on more meager voltages below ~50V!!! The m620 gives much more efficient power at 52V than 48V. Low V high A = heat!)
Gionnirocket
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Yes I understand that... But do you know anyone with a UART motor that has battery communication? Supposedly a Bafang branded UART battery would communicate but as far as I know up until the release of CANbus they were not exporting battery/motor sets.
Gionnirocket
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It'll cost you...
Bafang Ultra Motor M620 /G510 kit 1000W 48V 52V -Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com
Bafang Ultra Motor M620 /G510 kit 1000W 48V 52V. If you are looking for high power motor for your ebike, the Bafang Ultra motor is suitable for you.
www.greenbikekit.com
But depending on how much you hate your current setup.. it may be worth it
ProphetZarquon
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I mean, before ebikes were commonly mass-manufactured, many of the batteries I saw had either no BMS at all, or a full BMS, with per-row BMS seemingly rare by comparison...
Pairing a specific line of batteries to a controller is mostly new with the advent of CANBus usage, but CANBus is in no way a pre-requisite to BMS usage; it's not coincidence that manufacturers concerned enough about liability to include a BMS, are also those more likely to employ CANBus to deter unlicensed modification.
For decades, UART serial communication's been used to carry all kinds of data with BMS data being no exception; ebike manufacturers tending to introduce BMS & CANBus at the same time, has plenty to do with business strategy but nothing at all to do with the capability of either protocol.
TLDR: UART m620 displays\controllers accept BMS data if it's provided. UART already supports BMS data; CANBus adoption is contemporaneous but not prerequisite with BMS usage.
(As for per-cell vs per-row BMS, my understanding is that low voltages are of less concern, hence wiring only each parallel set... Per-cell BMS probably is overkill for almost all use-cases; I just love detailed info & tend to be paranoid (& have had a lot of "rare" faulty goods), so I like the idea of it more than is reasonable & would opt for per-cell monitoring in any situation where it isn't simply prohibitive... & in the case of ebike batteries, it would be pretty prohibitive because I don't think any are made that way anymore (for the quite valid reasons we've discussed here).)
Gionnirocket
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I'm in total agreement that UART is more than capable of transmitting BMS info.
And that UART is more than capable of the programming needs of a controller and that the manufacturer move to CANbus is more about product control and lock down.
That's why I've decided to stay UART for now.
But in my search over the years and battery purchases... No one offered a UART BMS and was led to believe the only one doing so was Bafang itself but only available in China.
I still don't know of anyone selling.. or anyone who has purchased a battery that has a UART BMS that can be used with the Bafang UART display to see battery info.
Y SOC MV
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