E-Wheels
Well-Known Member
To save any arguments within this forum, please
, please buy 1x mid drive and 1x hub drive 
There you go....one for each camp....that should fix it....nothing to see here, please move on
Rear hub vs mid drive
- Thread starter John Thompson
- Start date
, please buy 1x mid drive and 1x hub drive There you go....one for each camp....that should fix it....nothing to see here, please move on
John Thompson
Active Member
I am sorry for the can of worms, all.
Cyklefanatic
Well-Known Member
The van is so that when the mid drive fails you don’t have to carry the bike too far.
Cyklefanatic
Well-Known Member
Although a mid drive can be reliable overall direct drives of equal quality will be more reliable.That’s a bit overstated. A well maintained mid drive can be very reliable. A clone hub drive can be very unreliable and easily overheated. Stator Aid injected into a direct drive hub can cool things down considerably. IME there’s really no one size fits all. The devil is in the details. I’m speaking from experience and currently running with mids, DD, and GHD. Each has its place.
View attachment 51262Statorade - Grin Products - Product Info
Statorade is a specially formulated ferrofluid that improves the thermal performance of direct drive hub motors. Just a small amount added to the motor magnets can double the thermal conductivity of the core, allowing the hubs to be driven harder and longer before risk of overheating.www.ebikes.ca
airflow.
The idea behind Statorade is brilliant and simple. A direct drive hub motor generates heat internally at the stator, but this heat has no easy path to escape since it is surrounded by trapped air. It is possible to cool the motor with vent holes and active airflow from outside, but this exposes the motor to the elements. Alternately, filling the motor with oil will cool the stator windings quite well, but with significant increase in motor resistance from fluid drag and an enormous sealing challenge to keep the oil from leaking
With Statorade, only a tiny amount of fluid is needed to achieve the same effect. Nanomagnetic particles suspended in a low-viscosity oil concentrate this liquid in the magnetic air gap of the motor. That is exactly where it needs to be to transfer heat through fluid convection between the motor stator to the motor shell, where the heat can then be easily shed to the environment via passing airflow.
The magnets on the rotor trap the fluid in the gap so that it can’t splash around and leak out through the ball bearings or cable wiring as happens with normal attempts at oil cooling. And it turns out that only a tiny amount of Statorade fluid is needed to achieve heat transfer, resulting in negligible effect on the rolling drag of the motor.
Cyklefanatic
Well-Known Member
Why spoil all of our fun!To save any arguments within this forum, please
There you go....one for each camp....that should fix it....nothing to see here, please move on
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
you do know you can still peddle a mid drive without assist right?
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
I peddle mid drives from Bafang. And you can still pedal any motor but ALL have a degree of resistance.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
yep but you have all that mass of a wheel on that hub drive that you have to overcome and that causes drag.
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
Small geared hub motors are easier to pedal than the Bulls cross mover. Bosch Gen 2 motors have substantial drag compared to geared hub motors like Dapu.
This issue has been overcome in Gen 4 motors.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
not substantial drab but some. but since a rear hub bike tend to have fatter tires and a much smaller gear range I t doubt it matters a huge amount.
It's Ok, they are having fun!
One thing hasn't been mentioned this time (though maybe it was, in several past threads).
If motor fails, you probably won't be able to repair the motor on your own. With mid drive it's not easy to find a $2,000 bike that has a dealers network. Hub models in this price range are more likely to have a dealer.
Now, if there is no dealer nearby or at all - Bafang mid drives are not too expensive (I think $350 for 500W?), but replacing it is not an easy DIY project. A shop could do, if (IF) you find a shop willing to do it. OTH, with a hub you can buy a wheel with motor already laced in, prices ranging from $100 for a no-name hub from no-name online source to $250 for 500W Bafang, shipping included. Just put it in.
I am not advocating one or another, and agree that hubs have their limitations, and Direct Drive hubs will be more limiting yet than geared hubs on a hilly terrain.
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indianajo
Well-Known Member
Very little resistance unpowered from my 1300 W geared hub motor. I ride it unpowered 90% of the time for cardio exercise. The 1500 W DD hub motor unpowered felt like I was in 2 sprockets higher than I really was. Stored DD in the garage.$189 wasted. As far as road failures, if the covers are screwed on & the bearings are okay, I've pedaled the geared hub 11-25 miles home after 2 battery failures and a rained out throttle. Bearings are industrial number, new ones from SKF can be bought on Mscdirect.com, not made in ***** of imitation steel. If a plastic gear strips out, can pedal home, no sweat. I ride 36 miles from the LBS, 30 miles from home, 26 miles from nearest source of bike tubes, 4 miles from cell phone service.
Have taken the bike out in the grass on my summer property, chasing a poacher that shot a deer 2 weeks before opening day of bow & arrow season. It is not flat. He got away, carrying the buck over his shoulders through a creek and up the hill in the woods. Also his shotgun. Kind of glad I didn't catch him. Made him work for his venison, though.
Cyklefanatic
Well-Known Member
Just to keep flogging this dead horse. My point is if your planning the road trip of a lifetime to go a thousand km from home then reliability becomes super important because failures happen at the worst possible time place and weather. Flats, chains and cables can be fixed by a reasonably equipped rider by themselves. Circuit boards, gears, bearings and belts no way. So the extra reliability of a direct hub drive outweighs all of its shortcomings on that type of trip.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
that kind of a trip you may be better off not with a e bike. but at least my Bosch I would have a chance of a shop being able to work on it over a hub drive.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
That's just silly. I can name a dozen riders with Bosch mid drives with tens of thousands of miles.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
But a hub, and I ride mid drives has fewer issues. Other than drag. But for those like me that are less than able have a throttle and simple PAS. But bottom bracket torques sensors are an option. Much adieu about nothing, IMO. Again, what's imprtant is what you need. And I like them all. Ebike whore!
$2K budget. What Bosch...
It's nice when you can find a shop willing to work on Bosch. Though this is a cold comfort when you are stuck with a failed motor a few dozen miles away. What you need in this situation is a pedaling-friendly ebike, not too heavy and without motor resistance. Then you'll buy a new hub without having to look for somebody willing to work on it
Car is more reliable and comfortable but this would be an unfair comparison.
It's nice when you can find a shop willing to work on Bosch. Though this is a cold comfort when you are stuck with a failed motor a few dozen miles away. What you need in this situation is a pedaling-friendly ebike, not too heavy and without motor resistance. Then you'll buy a new hub without having to look for somebody willing to work on it
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
I just tested it went from Ecco to off and it was only a slight difference. I rather get my bike worked on then trying to hunt around for a new rear wheel that will work. and what if another electrical component goes bad on that bike? the problems are endless.$2K budget. What Bosch...
Car is more reliable and comfortable but this would be an unfair comparison.
It's nice when you can find a shop willing to work on Bosch. Though this is a cold comfort when you are stuck with a failed motor a few dozen miles away. What you need in this situation is a pedaling-friendly ebike, not too heavy and without motor resistance. Then you'll buy a new hub without having to look for somebody willing to work on it
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
I make approximately two trips like that a year on a Bosch CX mid drive. So far I haven't had any problem except for a couple of flat tires. Now I'm fussy about starting those long trips with new tires and I don't even have the flats.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
I have several hub drives and several friends with hub drives, All are now in their 4th year. I road mine all winter, except the weeks after eye surgery. What's to fix? Both LBS here will happily build a wheel. All that left is a controller. I've moved to Baserunners, potted controller with a wide range of voltage levels. I completely understand your position. But it's YOUR opinion and your choice. The idea that a hub drive is somehow inferior or difficult is just your opinion and not the reality for MANY riders.
And another can of worms...
While I admire bikes with Bosch motors, the lack of a throttle kills them for me. I'm less than able and some days pedaling is impossible. I continue to look for a used Bosch bike but it can never be my primary ride.
IMNSHO ALL motors have their place.
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