Differences between hub motor with Torque sensor vs mid drive motor

[Charlie12614]

I am looking at purchasing a new bike and very interested in something like the new Aventon Pace 500.3. It is a hub motor with a torque sensor. Prior to this I was thinking of just looking at a mid drive as most of those use a torque sensor. I have an old hub motor e-bike with cadence sensor and do not like the feeling of the bike "taking off" when it kicks in at any level. I have driven a mid-drive bike and liked the more natural feel of it which I believe is due to the torque sensing vs the motor itself. So now looking for a new e-bike to drive locally only small distances and therefore do not want to spend a lot of dollars. Saw the new Aventon Pace 500.3 and just wondering how a hub/torque feels and behaves vs a mid-drive/torque. Any thoughts or experience? Thanks in advance. And hope okay to post in this forum as I am only using that vendor's bike as an example of the general question I am asking.

 

[JethroXP]

I have two eBikes, a 750 watt geared rear hub drive and 1000 watt mid-drive, both have torque sensors. I actually prefer the power delivery of the hub drive. Both feel very natural, but the hub drive has a top speed associated with each PAS level, so I can "out pedal" it if I want to, for exercise. On PAS 1 once I'm moving faster than 14 MPH the motor stops assisting, and its 17 MPH at PAS 2, 20 MPH PAS 3, etc. My mid-drive doesn't do that, it keeps providing power assist no matter how fast I pedal, the different PAS levels just determine how much assistance I get. Of course, this could be just the programming that's unique to my bikes, and may not translate to others. Have the Biktrix Juggernaut Hub Duo and the Juggernaut FS Pro 3.

 

[PedalUma]

Welcome @Charlie12614. The Aventon with the rear chain pressure gauge torque sensor at the dropout and a hub drive is a bit mushy in my opinion. There is nothing 'wrong' with it, and budgets do matter. It just is not as nice as some higher end mid-drives. Even the Aventon Level 2 is a bit mushy and can be ghost pedaled. But many people like it that way. I like them to be perky.

 

[gromike]

Well, I just installed a direct drive hub motor with a torque sensor in the free hub. I'm really liking it because it is on the bicycle side of motorized bicycles. I also have a bike with a BBS02 mid-drive motor. It has cadence PAS. That bike works great, but it is more on the motorcycle side of the divide. On the level it's fast enough to ride with the cars.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

"The Aventon with the rear chain pressure gauge torque sensor at the dropout"

Is the torque sensor on the new Aventons at the rear drop out? I thought it was in the bottom bracket.

 

[PedalUma]

I do not know all of them. It could be that the hub-drives now have the Bafang bottom bracket torque sensor. And with the mid-drive torque sensor bikes it is in the motor housing.

 

[rich c]

You still don't have the gearing advantage of a mid drive, with the hub motor. No matter what kind of cadence or torque sensor for the hub motor.

 

[PedalUma]

gearing advantage

That is correct. The motor itself on a hub drive is single speed. The gears are just for pedaling. But with a mid, the motor pulls the chain thru the shift-able gears. Hubs are best for people who are new to bikes and are in flat areas. A mid-drive requires things such as down shifting before slowing and easing off on pedal pressure when shifting. Oh, but they are so much better. A good mid-drive costs about 333 delivered in 3-4 days domestically. A hub laced into a wheel can be over 400.

 

[JethroXP]

You still don't have the gearing advantage of a mid drive, with the hub motor. No matter what kind of cadence or torque sensor for the hub motor.

True, a mid-drive will provide higher performance (at a higher price). However, not everyone needs or wants that. For someone who is not a cyclist, and just wants a fun and simple-to-use bike, I'd recommend a hub drive all day long. The way I've come to think about it is that if all you know is that you want an ebike, you are probably best off with a hub drive. If you have preferred tires, breaks, shifter, etc. then you are probably better off with a mid-drive.

 

[gromike]

From my rather limited experience, a torque sensing hub drive gives a good bike riding experience, though you really need a wide range of gears. It feels like it's in that no pain elevation gain magic bicycle zone. I am pedaling that bike almost non stop and loving it. On my cadence PAS mid-drive, pedaling is more an optional thing. I guess a torque sensing mid-drive is also a magic bike, though with a throttle I would be prone to tilting into motorcycle mode.

 

[PedalUma]

This is a torque sensing mid-drive with a throttle and an internally geared hub. It is posable to have it all. It feels like a bike but amplified, no surge or lurch, immediate, smooth, for her birthday. Then her husband had to get one for Christmas. Better eBikes do not look or feel clunky. Good ones are lithe, and elegant. Pedal speed is the same as chainring speed.

 

[indianajo]

You still don't have the gearing advantage of a mid drive, with the hub motor.

Complete hot air. Only $5000 up mid drive mountain bikes with a 48 or 52 tooth rear sprocket have any gearing advantage. With a drive sprocket of 46 tooth (usual) the different rear sprockets smaller than that increase speed, not torque. I've only owned one hub motor that wouldn't exceed 23 mph in a 26" wheel, and that was a high torque 12t winding Mac (no longer stocked in USA due to 3 class laws). The others would go 25 mph or more on the flat.
The bearings in the hub motors I've owned were 6001, which in a lawnmower quill are good to 3000 rpm. Bicycle wheels rotate up to 240 rpm, no difficulty for electric motors. Even with the rotor rotating 5 x faster than the wheel.
Main difficulty with hub motors, the cover comes unscrewed once a year or so. Use key-tite sealant on the screws, blue lok-tite didn't work.

 

[PedalUma]

Gearing advantages.

 

[PedalUma]

@indianajo, Kindly stop spreading misinformation regarding hub drives and gearing. It is not true and you have been saying the same thing for years.

 

[tomjasz]

You still don't have the gearing advantage of a mid drive

Who needs it with all the raw power of a high-end hub drive? Rhetorical question. I still have gears and multiple assist levels.

 

[tomjasz]

Gearing advantages.

Dont you go finding Heysus on me with a one way view!

 

[PedalUma]

As soon as I wrote that the deities arranged for a single-speed hub-drive to show up. I am not sure how the karmic forces work like that. The owner's name is Jack, so you have to be careful how you greet him from a distance at the airport.

 

[tomjasz]

no longer stocked in USA due to 3 class laws

Not so, availability has nothing to do with class laws.
Throw 72V at a 12T for 31MPH and 35MPH for a 10T. Throw 52V at 8T for a demonic ride.

 

[m@Robertson]

Only $5000 up mid drive mountain bikes with a 48 or 52 tooth rear sprocket have any gearing advantage. With a drive sprocket of 46 tooth (usual) the different rear sprockets smaller than that increase speed, not torque.

Utter nonsense.

 

[PedalUma]

Okay, so here is another difference. That SS-Hub had a rear flat. Changing a flat on a hub-drive is a pain. It involves cutting zip ties disconnecting power, unusual nut sizes, wrestling with a heavy wheel and proper axle rotational alignment to reinstall. So, Jack had a rear flat and took it to someone else. They applied a patch 1/2 inch away from the puncture. When that didn't work they filled the 650B x 2" tube with a family sized (32oz) bottle of Slime. Two pounds of Slime! Because we all know that more is better. Changing a tube on a mid-drive is just like any other bike. That is the whole thing about shifting. As with a sports car you are optimizing the needs for more torque in low gears or more speed in high gears. You wouldn't launch a sports car from a stop in the highest gear, or drive 100 mph in first.