Rear hub vs mid drive

[tomjasz]

I don't know.

 

[Explorer-1]

Let's go down the rabbit hole.
....

Let's not and say we did.

 

[tomjasz]

While

the GNAC hs some nice features The MAC is a better value IMO. Calculated with a 5% grade

 

[tomjasz]

 

[AHicks]

MAC is a better value no doubt - until you factor in the GMAC features, which are not showing on those charts! GMAC is all about the variable regen/braking. If you have no need for/interest in these, the MAC will work just fine. I'll be the first to admit that. It's a really great drive.

GMAC brings a whole new meaning to regen though. Some use it in favor of a rear brake! Too, it's actually able to replace a significant amount of power into the battery. Chart not able to factor in the GMAC features as regarding consumption I don't believe.

 

[tomjasz]

GMAC is all about the variable regen/braking.

Important for many but a yawn for me. I have the ability to use regen on a mxus drive. I use it for braking. even so I usually forget to turn it on.

 

[tomjasz]

a whole new meaning to...

... pricing too! Sadly I'll need to have a GMAC.

 

[AHicks]

... pricing too! Sadly I'll need to have a GMAC.

True that (expensive!)!

 

[BigNerd]

So I finally tested my rear hub drive Espin Sport up a long incline to see what the 500w motor was capable of. Now, I'm over 250lbs so I was scared I was going to push it because from what I've read here, mid drives are better for heavier riders.

To my surprise, it worked like a champ... even in just PAS 1 this formerly "I don't want to ride it" uphill path that is just over a mile long was nothing for the Bafang motor... didn't even need to go to PAS 2 or 3 but tried it just to see what's what. At PAS 3, I could easily get over 15mph which for uphill is impossible.

So while I was worried about a rear hub drive not being enough for my big body... turns out, it's okay. I just don't know if it can handle a steeper incline or longer one... I only used the power for about 2/3 of the path but as I said, didn't hear any crying from the back of my bike.

One plus for rear hub that some mid-drives don't have is the throttle... went back halfway down to see how my non-ebike partner was doing and from the stop... I could throttle a little bit so I could sync up pedaling on the incline since I forgot to gear down.

 

[Explorer-1]

You don't say what the elevation was over that distance, so no one can really get a sense of what kind of hill you are talking about.

The steeper inclines is where the hub motor will suffer on most bikes. For real mountain biking the mid drive is still preferable in most cases. There are designs that can narrow the gab. There are always tradoffs.

 

[BigNerd]

You don't say what the elevation was over that distance, so no one can really get a sense of what kind of hill you are talking about.

The steeper inclines is where the hub motor will suffer on most bikes. For real mountain biking the mid drive is still preferable in most cases. There are designs that can narrow the gab. There are always tradoffs.

Sorry... according to All Trails it looks like it maxes at 7% but that’s still steep enough to make me not want to ride it with a non ebike. I actually tried it yesterday with my regular MTB as my kid used the ebike and while I can do it, it’s not fun at all.

There is another shorter incline with a 12% grade and I’ll try it out one day but I think it should be ok.

I understand that mid drives are better for mountain biking and real torque but what I’m trying to say is for casual bikers on paved trails that are not too steep or too long, a rear hub is capable enough.

I hope my next one will be a mid drive but it all depends on weight/price.

 

[Lantley]

Sorry... according to All Trails it looks like it maxes at 7% but that’s still steep enough to make me not want to ride it with a non ebike. I actually tried it yesterday with my regular MTB as my kid used the ebike and while I can do it, it’s not fun at all.

There is another shorter incline with a 12% grade and I’ll try it out one day but I think it should be ok.

I understand that mid drives are better for mountain biking and real torque but what I’m trying to say is for casual bikers on paved trails that are not too steep or too long, a rear hub is capable enough.

I hope my next one will be a mid drive but it all depends on weight/price.

In my short time of ownership I tend to agree with this.
I have a hub drive that I am satisfied with. I weigh 300 lbs. and have no issue with local hills and paved roads.
I don't disagree that mid drives systems are superior, however there are many satisfied hub owners who do not feel the need to upgrade.

 

[opimax]

It is not necessarily an “ upgrade ,” for me it was a downgrade for my riding style and terrain...

 

[Hintrod]

Important for many but a yawn for me. I have the ability to use regen on a mxus drive. I use it for braking. even so I usually forget to turn it on.

question how do you turn on regeneration with an MXUS drive?

 

[AHicks]

Regen is a feature offered in many, but not all controllers. To have ANY chance answering your question, somebody would need to know which controller and which display you were using. Unfortunately, there's no "generic" info that would apply.

 

[tomjasz]

question how do you turn on regeneration with an MXUS drive?

More often the question is how to turn it on. A busy day here so I didn't read back, but regen braking is useful. but typically not and "automatic" feature of the DD setup.

 

[BigNerd]

Took that hill again yesterday (I'm not scared anymore!!) and PAS 1 is more than sufficient, it actually goes pretty fast when I gear up to 3rd, didn't even use PAS 2 or higher.

I'm currently using a 500w Bafang (Espin Sport) so I'm wondering if I could use a 250w or 350w rear hub motor and be okay. I was concerned because I'm a big guy but I didn't see any smoke or blood coming out of the rear hub... so would a lower power motor work too?

 

[AHicks]

Assuming the smaller motor did work, no smoke or blood, it would be working closer to the "edge". It would not have the available reserve power of a bigger motor, and there would be little assurance it would increase your available battery mileage.

 

[BigNerd]

Sorry... according to All Trails it looks like it maxes at 7% but that’s still steep enough to make me not want to ride it with a non ebike. I actually tried it yesterday with my regular MTB as my kid used the ebike and while I can do it, it’s not fun at all.

There is another shorter incline with a 12% grade and I’ll try it out one day but I think it should be ok.

I understand that mid drives are better for mountain biking and real torque but what I’m trying to say is for casual bikers on paved trails that are not too steep or too long, a rear hub is capable enough.

I hope my next one will be a mid drive but it all depends on weight/price.

So I went through some hilly area in San Clemente and according to AllTrails, the biggest incline was 13% which was pretty steep. The distance was short but I easily (and I meany easily) went up using only PAS 2. PAS 1 was a bit more effort and PAS 3 would have been too fast. If the hill was even 4 or 5 times longer, I would have no issues... and I'm no lightweight.

I got lub for the hub!

 

[Taylor57]

I took the mid drive (Frey CC) and hub (Espin Sport) out for back to back spins today. I rode the Sport about 15 miles (95% street and sidewalk) and the CC about 10 miles. (50-50 dirt trails/street)
I think I need different tires for my CC as the Schwalbes did not feel super stable in sandy conditions. The Sport just keeps on keepin on and offers a great comfort ride. I of course have added the suspension seat post and suspension stem, but for 1200 bucks vs the 4k I spent on the CC, the value is with Espin...