New Stromer ST5 LTD

[AbeK]

Overall these are very good points and mostly my experience mirrors yours.

However,


I don't find Rohloff performance any better than a di2 derailleur setup(actually di2 feels more crisp, it is also several percent more efficient). I like rohloff's gear range and ease of maintenance though. Also I am sure you realize that those two require different shifting techniques on your part. The first time I rode a di2 I was not impressed much, in time though I came to love it.



Yes in terms of comfort and handling rough terrain nothing is like a full suspension. However ST5's front fork is actually a great fork and better at higher speeds than the longer travel forks on mtbs. It is a very beefy high end fork with a short travel. It is stiff but with a bike like ST5 you'd like a suspension which improves handling/comfort at higher speeds yet feel like a solid fork on smooth surfaces like a road bike and it achieves that very well.

Your full suspension mid drive is a very nice/comfortable tourer for average speeds of 18-20 as yo usaid.
ST5 is a different animal as you are experiencing and yes it does feel much lighter than it is.

Enjoy your bikes.

Agree on the suspension. I want it to be stiffer on a performance bike like the ST5. And good point on the di2 vs. Rohloff shifting. I probably need more time with it as I’ve gotten quite comfortable shifting the Rohloff. One thing I like about the Rohloff is the auto downshift when you stop. And the ability to make large gear changes while stopped. On the di2 it’s better to be pedaling when making a large change. I probably just need more practice with the di2.

 

[bluecat]

One thing I like about the Rohloff is the auto downshift when you stop.

OK, it seems you prefer the more lazy riding style. Hopefully, with time, you will unleash the power of your ST5! At the beginning, "fast" means riding with 45 km/h - but with time, it becomes another meaning. A corner ahead, barking at the last point, shifting back a few gears, rolling, accelerating from the center of the corner on, shifting upwards, and gone.

I did this with my old Stromer, but you will do this much faster, then you have the S5 LTD. Then, you understood what the Di2 is good for and why the WREN is like she ist. I wish you all the fun you can get!

 

[Ebiker01]

had no problem getting it to 28 mph and keeping it there.

Could you do a max speed test on a flat road, I get different data from the internet and I would really like to know if can do 31-33 mph for longer then 3-5minutes ? Not under maximal effort on behalf of the rider, about 80-90%.
If you don't feel confident about going faster then 28mph I understand , maybe once you get more comfortable and know the bike try to see if it gets up to those speeds. While I do enjoy 28mph , 31-33 mph feels even better , above 33mph for en ebike it's too risky and a huge battery drain .

Hopefully there won't be any officer on the road with a laser gun to ticket you or any Ebr "officer" to ticket me for asking you to disobey the Clasd 3 speed limit🏍

I'm in the market for my 2nd Class 3 ebike and trying to decide between M1Spitzing R pedelec and Stromer St5Ltd.
Also what is your weight to have this variable input for the speed test.

Thanks , enjoy it and ride it to the max.!!

 

[Johnny]

Could you do a max speed test on a flat road, I get different data from the internet and I would really like to know if can do 31-33 mph for longer then 3-5minutes ? Not under maximal effort on behalf of the rider, about 80-90%.

You should be more specific, what do you consider maximal effort on your part, what is your weight and what grade are you trying to achieve this.

While it is possible to exceed 28 a bit, 33mph would be a stretch, that is well beyond class 3 it would be a legal issue.

 

[bluecat]

trying to decide between M1Spitzing R pedelec and Stromer St5Ltd

Difficult decision between the strongest on the paper and the fastest on the road - and often discussed in the internet. The major problem is: The 45km/h Spitzing is a phantom. It's shown in the internet, but if you check the official dealers, they all have only the slow Spitzing eMTB's. I really hope, you'll find one to test ride for at least our daily track.

The TQ drum motor is a very special construction (single axis) built many years ago. No major ebike company has used it - until a few years ago, Haibike brought it into its 25km/h eMTB Flyon. Then, M1 announced this motor in a 45km/h version in its strongest ebikes. But even this bike has only a 48T chainring (Stromer uses 52T). With other words: If you will maintain 45 km/h, you have to pedal much faster than on a Stromer. The other problem is the loss of torque on such high speed. On the motor axis the unbeatable value - but due to the transmission gearing, at the rear axle values only in the range of a ST5 (Do your own calculation with 48T : 11T).

But this is only paper values and thoughts.

With the ST5, the problem is not to be too fast - then if you do so, you're in the fade out range of the motor. Then, you need much more own force then if you keep the speed slightly below (not more than 45 km/h). However, it was not so difficult for me to accelerate on an open road with one hand at the handlebar while the other hand holds the heavy camera.

 

[Ebiker01]

45km/h

45mph - R pedelec , 1080watts motor. That's what the specs say on paper...

Thank you for the thorough explanation I guess the St5 does the speed that I am looking for based on your picture

Q-For the St5 do you know if they change the controller for the US version because the US version is only 650 watts or how exactly do they adjust that wattage ? I'm looking for the 850 watts version.

 

[Ebiker01]

48T

that can be changed to 50 or 52t.
It is avlb. from March:

 

[Johnny]

Q-For the St5 do you know if they change the controller for the US version because the US version is only 650 watts or how exactly do they adjust that wattage ? I'm looking for the 850 watts version.

As far as I know same controller. Controllers can limit/change the power output you don't need a different hardware for it so its just programming. You can not have the 850 because it is above the legal 750w limit.

If you want a mid drive that is above class 3 why don't you look at WW with an X1 controller and igh?

 

[Ebiker01]

is above class 3 why don't you look at WW with an X1 controller and igh?

For th M1 Spitzing I like the TQ motor/cabron fiber frame and 1080wh battery.

For the St5LTD i like the sleek design, OMNI anti -theft feature , ABS, and a few of the other specs.

The WWagon is too bulky and heavy.

 

[Ebiker01]

850 because it is above the legal 750w limit.

I would only use the 850watts power and higher wattage ebikes for private roads or moto race circuits of course....

 

[bluecat]

It is avlb. from March:

OK If you have this information in your app, it must be true ;-) So please report about your test ride!

Until then, I would suggest you calculate the remaining torque at the rear wheel with all three otprions:

48T : 11T (factory configuration)
50T : 11T
52T : 11T

 

[AbeK]

A question for this group: There’s virtually no information in the ST5’s manual about S mode. Does anyone know what the S support mode actually does? There’s 1, 2, 3 and S. Is it simply a “4,” with more assist than “3,” or is it doing something else?

 

[bluecat]

Is it simply a “4,” with more assist than “3,” or is it doing something else?

As mentioned above (3) is already to strong for only keeping 45km/h. But in a situation as shown in the video, the extra power of (S) would be useful. Or simple if the road goes somewhat uphill or the wind comes from the opposite direction. There is the nominal power (eg. 850W), the average power (maybe 600W) and the peak power (above 1kW). The (S) mode raises the average power.

 

[AbeK]

As mentioned above (3) is already to strong for only keeping 45km/h. But in a situation as shown in the video, the extra power of (S) would be useful. Or simple if the road goes somewhat uphill or the wind comes from the opposite direction. There is the nominal power (eg. 850W), the average power (maybe 600W) and the peak power (above 1kW). The (S) mode raises the average power.

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[AbeK]

Difficult decision between the strongest on the paper and the fastest on the road - and often discussed in the internet. The major problem is: The 45km/h Spitzing is a phantom. It's shown in the internet, but if you check the official dealers, they all have only the slow Spitzing eMTB's. I really hope, you'll find one to test ride for at least our daily track.

The TQ drum motor is a very special construction (single axis) built many years ago. No major ebike company has used it - until a few years ago, Haibike brought it into its 25km/h eMTB Flyon. Then, M1 announced this motor in a 45km/h version in its strongest ebikes. But even this bike has only a 48T chainring (Stromer uses 52T). With other words: If you will maintain 45 km/h, you have to pedal much faster than on a Stromer. The other problem is the loss of torque on such high speed. On the motor axis the unbeatable value - but due to the transmission gearing, at the rear axle values only in the range of a ST5 (Do your own calculation with 48T : 11T).

But this is only paper values and thoughts.

With the ST5, the problem is not to be too fast - then if you do so, you're in the fade out range of the motor. Then, you need much more own force then if you keep the speed slightly below (not more than 45 km/h). However, it was not so difficult for me to accelerate on an open road with one hand at the handlebar while the other hand holds the heavy camera.

View attachment 78927

Just to confirm, I rode my ST5 today on a windless, flat road, I got it up to 29.5 mph. Getting to 28mph was no problem, but the motor assist fades quickly after that and you must pedal hard to go faster. Above 28 mph it really feels like you are pedaling a 65lb bike

 

[Johnny]

Just to confirm, I rode my ST5 today on a windless, flat road, I got it up to 29.5 mph. Getting to 28mph was no problem, but the motor assist fades quickly after that and you must pedal hard to go faster. Above 28 mph it really feels like you are pedaling a 65lb bike

My experience. It begins to cut off from 28mph and completely turns off in the next 2-3mph. At 31mph you are on your own power only.

@bluecat Do you know a tech document that states the exact support power/level at S ? I also find even 3 too much and hardly use it (S even less so since I am happy even on eco) but I'd still like to know the exact level of S.

 

[Ebiker01]

So then the quetsion is what kind of engineering mavericks the brilliant folks @ BH bikes did on the Easy motion Nitro city 2019 ??

Ok, i don't have OMNI, I carry a 2nd 605wh battery in the Ortlieb pannier for rides longer then 20miles b/c i keep it in Pas level 3, i don't have the ABS, don't have the super sleek looks , don't have DI2 allthough it could be installed..

But with medium effort, rider weight(185lb), min. or slight headwind (<5mph), 52T/11 , > 75rpm , on flat roads it does 30,31 mph for extended periods of time... stock controller 18ah, peak japanese Dapu motor of 860watts. 32mph tops with hard pedalling .That xtra mile from 31-32mph requires some work ....
And no it's not ad to sell it , i should buy another one actually.

I still do like the Stromer ST5 LTD , with some work(changing the stock controller) it may do >30mph, but can't take the risk of bricking it completly and void the warranty.


2 other ebikes that are much faster but imo lack the nice looks :

Hilleater Galiano Phaserunner SE 52V

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Ultimate Commuter Pro - Titanium (Out of Stock)

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[bluecat]

Stromer ST5 LTD , with some work(changing the stock controller)

I'm curious to know how you would do this (theoretically, of course)

 

[bluecat]

@bluecat Do you know a tech document that states the exact support power/level at S

No, there is none. All values beyond the official confirmation of the street legal status (COC document )are not published.

 

[Ebiker01]

I'm curious to know how you would do this (theoretically, of course)

Phaserunner_L10

Grin Phaserunner Field Oriented Controller, New V3 Model with WP8 CA Plug - Stainless Silver Shell with Molded L1019 Motor Connector. 90V Max and 96 A Peak Phase Currents (~45A Continuous).If you have a CA-DP you will need the WP8_JST adapter. Full Product Information Page

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Or a smaller one from Grintech if this one doesn't fit inside . I think the stock controller on Stromer is only 18amps ?