How to build a quality eMTB using Dengfu frame and Bafang motor

[Johnny]

Motor
Underwhelming. Even though Bafang claims 95Nm, it was less punchy than Bosch or Brose.

Just watched this, he also claims that Bafang is smoother and more bike like compared to Bosch, Brose etc. Things are changing I guess.

I am not sure what exactly "punchy" means. I wish he actually designed his tests better. For example I like to see him riding a longer uphill at a somewhat constant cadence and report the time he got with different bikes.

On a side note, the torque ratings are meaningless. For mid drives, maximum Torque at the crank means very little without torque vs cadence graph and this is another example why one should not make a decision based on this number.

If motor manufacturers just gave Torque or power vs rpm graph, one could have and accurate assessment of a bike's performance without riding it.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Just watched this, he also claims that Bafang is smoother and more bike like compared to Bosch, Brose etc. Things are changing I guess.

I am not sure what exactly "punchy" means. I wish he actually designed his tests better. For example I like to see him riding a longer uphill at a somewhat constant cadence and report the time he got with different bikes.

On a side note, the torque ratings are meaningless. For mid drives, maximum Torque at the crank means very little without torque vs cadence graph and this is another example why one should not make a decision based on this number.

If motor manufacturers just gave Torque or power vs rpm graph, one could have and accurate assessment of a bike's performance without riding it.

He also doesn't mention anything about tuning the motor to his needs which is easily done with the Ultra. I think he'd be able to add all the punch he wanted.
I know I had to remove some of the punch from my BBS02B... too aggressive from the factory for my needs.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Rob did another test with Bosch Gen4 and the updated Bafang M500 on the same Chinese carbon frame received from Dengfu.
The video can be seen be here:

 

[Akrotiri]

No surprise here except for the bafang loving crowd.

Hopefully this second video puts to rest the Bosch vs Bafang threads. Clearly Bosch is the better motor. Bafang motors are viable and fun as all e-bikes are but Bosch performs at a much higher level.

 

[Gionnirocket]

No surprise here except for the bafang loving crowd.

Hopefully this second video puts to rest the Bosch vs Bafang threads. Clearly Bosch is the better motor. Bafang motors are viable and fun as all e-bikes are but Bosch performs at a much higher level.

So putting Bafangs #2 motor against Bosch's best is some kind of victory?
Then add that the Bafang motor cost is what? 50% - 75% less?
We know for sure who his sponsor is... Great Test!
I guess the Bosch crowd sees what they want to see.

 

[Akrotiri]

So putting Bafangs #2 motor against Bosch's best is some kind of victory?
Then add that the Bafang motor cost is what? 50% - 75% less?
We know for sure who his sponsor is... Great Test!
I guess the Bosch crowd sees what they want to see.

If the sponsor of the video has anyone it’s Bafang.

Bafang went out of their way to send him the motor because they saw his first video where he gave the first Bafang motor lukewarm reviews on his DIY build. It’s also the only bafang motor that is certified in Europa and the UK.

He says all this in the beginning of the video.

No one ever claimed Bosch motors are cheaper so the price thing is irrelevant. This video talks about performance and lack thereof from the Bafang compared to the vastly superior Bosch.

 

[Gionnirocket]

If the sponsor of the video has anyone it’s Bafang.

Bafang went out of their way to send him the motor because they saw his first video where he gave the first Bafang motor lukewarm reviews on his DIY build. It’s also the only bafang motor that is certified in Europa and the UK.

He says all this in the beginning of the video.

No one ever claimed Bosch motors are cheaper so the price thing is irrelevant. This video talks about performance and lack thereof from the Bafang compared to the vastly superior Bosch.

You conviently ignored my first line which is the main point and reinforcing my last point in that the Bosch crowd sees what they want to see.

 

[Johnny]

Rob did another test with Bosch Gen4 and the updated Bafang M500 on the same Chinese carbon frame received from Dengfu.
The video can be seen be here:

While I wouldn't be surprised if bafang inflated the torque numbers, his testing procedure is flawed.

 

[Akrotiri]

You conviently ignored my first line which is the main point and reinforcing my last point in that the Bosch crowd sees what they want to see.

I don’t make personal attacks and presume what people think they see intentional or not or whether their biased or not when it comes to products.

What I know is that Bosch makes superior motors than Bafang and this video was further evidence of that.

I’m not surprised the Chinesium made Bafang motor is garbage.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I don’t make personal attacks and presume what people think they see intentional or not or whether their biased or not when it comes to products.

What I know is that Bosch makes superior motors than Bafang and this video was further evidence of that.

I’m not surprised the Chinesium made Bafang motor is garbage.

If that video is what qualifies as evidence to you... Then it makes sense that the EU needs to be highly restricted.

 

[reed scott]

Bosch makes fantastic electrical products. The whole construction industry knows and believes this. The bosh hammer drills are truly amazing machines. But when comparing small impact drill/drivers the cheaper Home Depot Ryobi is a better machine. Much more powerful and if drilling steel or driving self drilling screws into steel will get the job done faster and easier . The Bosch version will last longer but given the life span of such devices you can just keep buying Ryobi replacements for less than the cost of the Boshch machines. As in all things it's horses for courses. I'm an ATV type rider. And a bit of a power junkie. So I prefer the Bafang Ultra motor and especially with the Wattwagons Archon X1 controller. For me and a lot of people around here the Bafang is the 'better' motor. But Bosh makes superior motors. IF you don't mind proprietary everything, high high replacement and rebuild costs that you cannot do yourself and less power. I just have a new ( ish ) motor in reserve and I can swap motors inside of an hour. I can send a motor in for rebuild and get it back inside of two weeks for a few hundred bucks. Or just buy a new motor for a bit more and get one inside a week. So .... 'better' is highly subjective.

 

[Gionnirocket]

And Bosch also has the reputation of being over_designed in some cases. As a building manager in a past life we had a Bosch dishwasher in one of our locations that was 4x the price of a similar Kenmore and it broke down every 6 months and was the cost of the Kenmore to repair each time. Various service techs all told me the same thing... That's a Bosch for you.

 

[Ebiker33]

The Bosh is a great motor, however the M500 is couple levels down in the Bafang family and for the European market not North America, this result does not surprise me at all.

1)Ultra with upgraded controller or tweaked
1b)Standard Ultra
2)M600
3)M500

 

[RunForTheHills]

The Bosh is a great motor, however the M500 is couple levels down in the Bafang family and for the European market not North America, this result does not surprise me at all.

1)Ultra with upgraded controller or tweaked
1b)Standard Ultra
2)M600
3)M500

I watched the second video and he stated that he used the M500 because it is the largest Bafang motor that is compliant with EU laws. So I guess the video is aimed at the EU ebike audience.

 

[Akrotiri]

I watched the second video and he stated that he used the M500 because it is the largest Bafang motor that is compliant with EU laws. So I guess the video is aimed at the EU ebike audience.

In the video at 0:28 he said he used the new updated M500 because Bafang voluntarily sent it to him after they viewed his first DIY video on YouTube where he gave the first non-updated m500 Bafang a lukewarm review.

 

[RunForTheHills]

In the video he said said he used the M500 because Bafang voluntarily sent it to him after they viewed his first DIY video on YouTube where he gave the first Bafang a lukewarm review.

TBH, I didn't watch the first video. In the second video, he replaced the original M500 with an updated M500 that Bafang sent him and said that he chose the M500 because it complied with EU regulations.

 

[Akrotiri]

TBH, I didn't watch the first video. In the second video, he replaced the original M500 with an updated M500 that Bafang sent him and said that he chose the M500 because it complied with EU regulations.

I’m talking about the second video.

He clearly states in the first 30 seconds of the second video Bafang voluntarily sent it to him and he didn’t ask for them to send it. They sent it to him because he gave the first m500 from his first video a lukewarm review.

 

[RunForTheHills]

I’m talking about the second video.

He clearly states in the first 30 seconds of the second video Bafang voluntarily sent it to him and he didn’t ask for them to send it. They sent it to him because he gave the first m500 from his first video a lukewarm review.

That is true, but at 59 seconds in he states that he knows there are other Bafang motors available, but this is the only EU spec motor. It seems like he dubbed that in later, so maybe he is reading this thread and responding to it.

 

[Ebiker33]

I watched the second video and he stated that he used the M500 because it is the largest Bafang motor that is compliant with EU laws. So I guess the video is aimed at the EU ebike audience.

Yes and the video really makes the point well; that under European regulations, it will be harder to climb steep inclines.
Those of us that reside in mountainous regions appreciate that we are not under those laws, or even if we go over the allowed wattage, if we drive slow and respectfully, they are not heavily enforced.
Europe has mountainous regions as well, making their Ebike laws archaic and in need of updating as well, if they could do what America did 750W with throttle it would unify the market and we would have better motors and Ebikes around the world. Because now the self-imposed shackles would be off the other motor companies.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Then let's just say it like it is then... Bosch is the best that the children in the EU sandbox are allowed to play with.