Installed a Rohloff Speedhub 14, IGH on my mid-drive Luna Z1 Ultra Mag

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Very nice that your project came to fruition!
Hope you get put thousands of happy miles on this.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Very nice that your project came to fruition!
Hope you get put thousands of happy miles on this.

Thanks Ravi. Rode it twice today. I friggin' love it.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Updated to original post.
6/19/23 - Recently I have lost the chain a few times when the rear end is bounced really hard. When I installed the Downhill Chain Tensioner I realized it was not as tight as I would have preferred. I may need to remove one or two more links from the chain, to keep the tensioner tight. I may also need to install the Chain Guide which I purchased but did not install yet. I'll try removing the links first and see how it behaves.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Updated to original post.
6/19/23 - Recently I have lost the chain a few times when the rear end is bounced really hard. When I installed the Downhill Chain Tensioner I realized it was not as tight as I would have preferred. I may need to remove one or two more links from the chain, to keep the tensioner tight. I may also need to install the Chain Guide which I purchased but did not install yet. I'll try removing the links first and see how it behaves.

I'd think that the chain could be kept relatively tight since it's now a one to one and only needs a little slack to allow for suspension travel.
I'd also check for tight links and give it a good lube.

In my boredom waiting... I've been reading and watching a few videos and it seems some complain that the hub is noisy.
What's your take?

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I'd think that the chain could be kept relatively tight since it's now a one to one and only needs a little slack to allow for suspension travel.
I'd also check for tight links and give it a good lube.

In my boredom waiting... I've been reading and watching a few videos and it seems some complain that the hub is noisy.
What's your take?

Yeah I did see those complaints. Technically it makes a louder clicking noise when it freewheels when compared to a cassette hub, but it is not that much louder. I can see where somebody might notice the difference, but I cannot see anyone "complaining" about it unless they initially thought it was supposed it be quieter.
Call me biased, but every time I ride this thing my decision is reconfirmed.

The only time I lose the chain is when I jump head on into a curb, and my timing is off, and the rear wheel hits the curb very hard.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yeah I did see those complaints. Technically it makes a louder clicking noise when it freewheels when compared to a cassette hub, but it is not that much louder. I can see where somebody might notice the difference, but I cannot see anyone "complaining" about it unless they initially thought it was supposed it be quieter.
Call me biased, but every time I ride this thing my decision is reconfirmed.

The only time I lose the chain is when I jump head on into a curb, and my timing is off, and the rear wheel hits the curb very hard.

That's good to hear (or not hear : -)
... the complaints seemed a bit exaggerated and microphone placement in a video can be very deceiving.

I think I jinxed myself as shortly after making my previous post I dropped my chain for the first time in +6 months.
I was flying off the gravel track onto the horse trail that's the start of a big hill and I love taking it at speed. But this time there were many more rocks and roots exposed and narrow trenches cut into the path from recent heavy rains. I slammed both fork and shock several times before I slowed but the chain was already off.
Still fun though

 

[Tom@WashDC]

6/23/23 - Updated original post
I was losing the chain occasionally. Removed two links from the chain. I was also getting some "chatter" from the Down Hill Tensioner when running downhill on rocky mtb trails. I read that it may be caused by the top tensioner guide wheel hitting the hub cog. I adjusted the downhill chain tensioner swing arm to give a few more mm of distance. Original Rohloff specs have the guide wheel and cog pretty close.

 

[iamcanadian783]

Tom: I was excited to discover this thread of yours today. I am curious to do a similar rohloff implementation on my bafang ebike.

Thank you for taking the time to detail your install and anecdotes. I eagerly await more updates on your experiences!

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Tom: I was excited to discover this thread of yours today. I am curious to do a similar rohloff implementation on my bafang ebike.

Thank you for taking the time to detail your install and anecdotes. I eagerly await more updates on your experiences

It is my pleasure. I'm glad you find the thread useful to you. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. I'll be updating the thread periodically when I've got some new info or observations to add.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I'd think that the chain could be kept relatively tight since it's now a one to one and only needs a little slack to allow for suspension travel.
I'd also check for tight links and give it a good lube.

In my boredom waiting... I've been reading and watching a few videos and it seems some complain that the hub is noisy.
What's your take?

I did drop the chain a few more times. Removed two more links two weeks ago and it is pretty tight. No problems since then.

 

[J. Dub]

You're the second person I know (well know meaning I've read about, not personally) that has this hub on a Z1. There's a woman on the facebook z1 group as well.
Thank you for this walk through and your insight.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Truly my pleasure. I am so stoked by this hub every time I ride.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Updated to original post above.
8/28/23 - Still have not dropped the chain since removing the last two links. Looks like I will not be installing a chain guide.

Performed my first oil change (easy peasy). The oil goes in clear and this is how it looks after 3,500km of use. This first change is supposed remove the fine particulate filings that accumulate during the break-in period. It's supposed to shift and run progressively smoother moving forward, but is has been running smooth from the beginning.

I love this Rohloff hub. Could not imagine going back to cog/derailleur system.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

8/3/23 - Updated to original post on page 1.
Broke my Downhill Chain tensioner, broke my chain, and lost my rear cog snap ring.

Riding yesterday in the grass on a hill, felt like I hit an object in the rear, not sure what it was (rock, stump, stick), if anything. My crank started spinning freely with no effect on the rear drive, heard a grinding noise in the rear, thought it was the internal gears, then lost the chain. The snap ring that holds the cog in place had come off, the chain apparently broke, got wrapped into the chain tensioner, chain tensioner broke off. Not sure what the cause was. Did I hit something and snap the chain tensioner? Did the snap ring come off first? Did the chain break and cause everything? Most likely had a chain break that seized up in the chain tensioner and put lateral force on the cog causing the snap ring to pop off. I've had a similar experience on my BBSHD and Bafang Ultra where the chain broke, snagged the derailleur and destroyed it. New Downhill Tensioner will be here in 4 days. Luckily, my backup plan (wife's new Frey Savannah) will keep me riding until I make the repair.

 

[smorgasbord]

Seems like you think the chain broke first, and that set off the subsequent events. But, don't chain breaks simply unravel from the gearing? Does the tensioner look like it got hit?

In terms of chains, it's too bad a single speed chain won't work, because those have full bushings for increased strength. They can't use those on derailleur chains because those need some side to side play as you go up and down the rear cog - which you obviously don't have. I do personally wonder about your choice of the KMC chain, on two points:
1) Test Results show that most 12 speed chains outlast 11 speed chains, which outlast 10 speed chains, which outlast 9 speed chains, etc.
2) The 12-speed SRAM XO1 and XX1 chains have been tested to wear the least of any chain.

Now, wear isn't the same as breaking strength, but even across brands (look at the right of chart above) it's clear that 12 speed chains last longer on average. In particular, the Shimano 8-speed chain fared the worst in terms of wear! And if you want to stick with KMC, note that the "e-bike" specific chain did relatively poorly, even compared to other KMC chains.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Seems like you think the chain broke first, and that set off the subsequent events. But, don't chain breaks simply unravel from the gearing? Does the tensioner look like it got hit?

In terms of chains, it's too bad a single speed chain won't work, because those have full bushings for increased strength. They can't use those on derailleur chains because those need some side to side play as you go up and down the rear cog - which you obviously don't have. I do personally wonder about your choice of the KMC chain, on two points:
1) Test Results show that most 12 speed chains outlast 11 speed chains, which outlast 10 speed chains, which outlast 9 speed chains, etc.
2) The 12-speed SRAM XO1 and XX1 chains have been tested to wear the least of any chain.

View attachment 162562

Now, wear isn't the same as breaking strength, but even across brands (look at the right of chart above) it's clear that 12 speed chains last longer on average. In particular, the Shimano 8-speed chain fared the worst in terms of wear! And if you want to stick with KMC, note that the "e-bike" specific chain did relatively poorly, even compared to other KMC chains.

Just some food for thought.

Thank you for that analysis Smorgasbord. The tensioner looks like the chain wrapped around it and grabbed it and pulled it back and upwards.

I did go back and try to parse the sequence of events. I realize I made a serious error starting back about two years ago.

1. Back when I started e-biking, I was riding with a rear hub drive and never broke a chain. Then I moved to a mid-drive. At the time I erroneously believed that using my chain break tool to repair a broken chain by sliding an original pin back into the chain was the way to go. I also used that method on the original chain setup install. That would be Ok in a pinch, if I'm on the trial and have no Master Link. That's not too much of a problem on rear hubs or non-electric bikes, but it's insufficient on a mid-drive.

That's what I've been doing for the last few years. So, my initial install and "on the trail" chain repair always became the "weakest link" in my chain. I've never had a Master Link break with my mid-drive. On this current chain, when I installed the chain, I did not use the Master Link that came with it, I used the Chain break tool to reinsert the OEM chain pin back into a link, creating a weak link.

 

[m@Robertson]

I did not use the Master Link that came with it, I used the Chain break tool to reinsert the OEM chain pin back into a link, creating a weak link.

This was something I had to learn as well. Being old-school, my thinking was a properly inserted pin was the way to go. Maybe it was in the past, but times have changed. Pins nowadays have mushroomed ends for strength that get snapped away when you do a pin removal/replacement, and there's your weak spot. Master links seem weaker in my mind because they are so easy to install, but they are in fact the strongest solution.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

This was something I had to learn as well. Being old-school, my thinking was a properly inserted pin was the way to go. Maybe it was in the past, but times have changed. Pins nowadays have mushroomed ends for strength that get snapped away when you do a pin removal/replacement, and there's your weak spot. Master links seem weaker in my mind because they are so easy to install, but they are in fact the strongest solution.

Yup, That was my thinking. S'pose its ok on a regular bike, but not a mid drive.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

God Damn I love this setup!
The Rohloff with the Bafang Ultra Mag is an incredible combo.

 

[Gionnirocket]

God Damn I love this setup!
The Rohloff with the Bafang Ultra Mag is an incredible combo.

I concur.