Whoa.. is this real? An actual 3000W controller for the Bafang Ultra ?

[pennybags]

Looks like Watt Wagons just launched the new controller and can go up to 3000W !

A revolution in riding! Archon X1 controller Arriving May 2020.

We are happy to announce that we are now the exclusive North American distributor of the Archon X1 controller for the Bafang Ultra drives. This completely changes the landscape for powerful mid drives, and brings the riding experience on par with the top mid drive motors in the world. Don't...

wattwagons.com

This is finally real .. and looks like not only are they doing better wattage, but the performance is phenomenally better than stock or ludicrous controllers.

Wow.

 

[pushkar]

Oh .. hey bud.. are you stalking our site and forums???

I just posted a big announcement on our forum https://electricbikereview.com/foru...ller-for-bafang-ultra-and-more-goodies.32535/

Yes, it is true. The new Archon X1 pretty much outperforms any controller by a wide margin. The 3000W option actually needs a custom spider... that took a while to get right!

 

[TomD]

Suhweeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pushkar]

Suhweeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks. Another hard part was making the throttle work with it. We figured it out. This pretty much beats every single mid drive out there, hands down.

 

[Nutella]

Thanks. Another hard part was making the throttle work with it. We figured it out. This pretty much beats every single mid drive out there, hands down.

How are bike drivetrains making out with that much power?

 

[pushkar]

Since this is fully custom, i am restricting the throttle to 90Nm of torque. This is not the standard bafang firmware - the old firmware / cable etc don't work. We have a roadmap to offer OTA updates to the controller - hopefully by the end of the year. This way you can use an app (still TBD), make changes and just update the motor over bluetooh or wifi.

 

[Ken M]

Since this is fully custom, i am restricting the throttle to 90Nm of torque. This is not the standard bafang firmware - the old firmware / cable etc don't work. We have a roadmap to offer OTA updates to the controller - hopefully by the end of the year. This way you can use an app (still TBD), make changes and just update the motor over bluetooh or wifi.

Why allow 3000W of power and then limit the torque to 90Nm when the stock internal controller has a peak torque of 160nM?

Maybe you put all the tech into the PAS programming but I tend to think I'm better with a throttle than any programmer will be at predicting the assist level that I want. Seems that an alternative way to spell PAS is egos. Sorry I'm trying to make light of this but I honestly question the idea that taking imput from sensors and creating a control algorithm will really beat a good rider that can feather a throttle to get the exact assist they want at all times. Sorry if I hurt the feelings of any programmers out there that would be out of a job if all commuter ebikes were throttle-only.

 

[pushkar]

Why allow 3000W of power and then limit the torque to 90Nm when the stock internal controller has a peak torque of 160nM?

We are only limiting the "throttle-only" mode to 90Nm. This is done to ensure it doesn't damage the drive train (Rohloff). This does not restrict the top speed or gearing etc ... you can still get to your top speed, but in a more deterministic smooth ramp up. Further, with this new controller, the recommended way to use the throttle is to just gun it.

With PAS (regular pedaling) there is no limit. You can go up all the way well north of 200Nm depending on SOC, battery capacity, assist etc no problem. The default controller averages around 140Nm with peak of 160Nm.


Please let me know if this helps clarify this a bit further.

 

[Ken M]

We are only limiting the "throttle-only" mode to 90Nm. This is done to ensure it doesn't damage the drive train (Rohloff). This does not restrict the top speed or gearing etc ... you can still get to your top speed, but in a more deterministic smooth ramp up. Further, with this new controller, the recommended way to use the throttle is to just gun it.

With PAS (regular pedaling) there is no limit. You can go up all the way well north of 200Nm depending on SOC, battery capacity, assist etc no problem. The default controller averages around 140Nm with peak of 160Nm.


Please let me know if this helps clarify this a bit further.

That makes sense. So I'm assuming that the throttle torque can be limited from stall to some speed but the torque at say 20mph is as much as the PAS could provide at 20mph (just clipping the max torque at the slower speed to protect the Rohloff....good idea!).
Thanks....

 

[Ken M]

Oh, I do understand the appeal of PAS because it does provide the true sensation of riding a bike with superman legs but after riding a cargo bike I was using for a while in throttle only mode I found I could just get the assist I wanted while keeping my legs working enough to get any level of exercise I wanted. Having both on your great ebike makes sense.

 

[pushkar]

That makes sense. So I'm assuming that the throttle torque can be limited from stall to some speed but the torque at say 20mph is as much as the PAS could provide at 20mph (just clipping the max torque at the slower speed to protect the Rohloff....good idea!).
Thanks....

yeah.. very very close to it. We will also try to make some / all of this user configurable by end users. Still on the roadmap and a lot has to be worked out but we can do it in the lab.

 

[TomD]

 

[TomD]

Pushkar, is there a reason for the $500 up charge for the 1000 watt version? I wouldn't think there is that much difference from 750 watt other than programming? Or does the 1000 watt necessitate other upgrades like battery to handle the extra juice? Makes more sense for the 3000 watt version.

 

[Explorer-1]

Seems like even the top battery is only able to maybe in theory reach 3000W on a full charge for a brief second, but probably not given the loaded voltage and heat buildup in motor, and other losses. Seems the proper rating is no more than 2500W.

I like the direction, but why does marketing BS always have to be so high even when it is a good product? Well one reason is to try to justify the price.... the others are just as sad....

 

[17Stratton]

Oh .. hey bud.. are you stalking our site and forums???

I just posted a big announcement on our forum https://electricbikereview.com/foru...ller-for-bafang-ultra-and-more-goodies.32535/

Yes, it is true. The new Archon X1 pretty much outperforms any controller by a wide margin. The 3000W option actually needs a custom spider... that took a while to get right!

Can you the Archon 1 be retrofitted to any existing Bafang Ultra motor?

 

[pushkar]

@Timpo You are right. I will update description. Trail is a better one.

 

[pushkar]

Pushkar, is there a reason for the $500 up charge for the 1000 watt version? I wouldn't think there is that much difference from 750 watt other than programming? Or does the 1000 watt necessitate other upgrades like battery to handle the extra juice? Makes more sense for the 3000 watt version.

The additional controller adds a lot to my cost and the 1000W version is closer to the true final price. I am making the 750W available at a lower price through the promo period.

The 3000W version actually need s a different battery pack, a new spider, a couple of new parts on it (still being done).

 

[pushkar]

Can you the Archon 1 be retrofitted to any existing Bafang Ultra motor?

Technically yes, but not user serviceable at the moment. The price may only work if I sell the whole motor + kit with it.

 

[pushkar]

Seems like even the top battery is only able to maybe in theory reach 3000W on a full charge for a brief second, but probably not given the loaded voltage and heat buildup in motor, and other losses. Seems the proper rating is no more than 2500W.

I like the direction, but why does marketing BS always have to be so high even when it is a good product? Well one reason is to try to justify the price.... the others are just as sad....

With the shark pack, you can get 120 seconds of 3000W . With the Xtour and UC Pro and the Titan pack, you can get substantially loger term 3000W performance.

I don't want to do do false advertising. The product achieves what is mentioned. We cannot defy laws of physics, and I don't want to claim it does. PLease let me know where you think we can word it better and I will make those changes.

 

[17Stratton]

Technically yes, but not user serviceable at the moment. The price may only work if I sell the whole motor + kit with it.

Thanks Pushkar.