Bafang G062 / G063 Info

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I've had about 6 of these motors, heres some info that may help.

G062 1000 / G062 750 / G063 appear to be very similar motors-

G062.750 and G062.1000 are nearly identical motors. The primary difference being the phase wires. Traditionally the 750 was sold with Z916 phase wires and the 1000 was sold with superior L1019 phase wires, but now both the 750 and 1000 are readily available with L1019 phase wires making no difference. The only other difference I know of is the turn count. The 750w versions often come in 6.5T configuration, and 1000w versions come in 6T configuration (usually but not always). The 6.5T motors actually make more power/torque at a given phase amp (slightly higher turn) but have slightly less copper in parallel. The 6T motors seem to be 15 strands in parallel and 6.5T is 12 strands. Therefore the 6T motor (1000w) may handle slightly more heat before overheating, and may have slightly better overall copper fill and the 6.5T motor (750w) can produce the same power with less phase amps or more power at the same phase amps and have less strain on the phase wires, although will overheat the windings slightly faster at the same phase amps, and slightly worse overall copper fill.

G063 motors typically come in 5.5T configuration, which means they actually produce less torque per phase amp than the G062 series motors. From the photos that I have seen, they seem to have significantly worse copper fill than G062 motors. They also come with L1121 connectors which are less common than L1019, therefore in my opinion making it an inferior motor to the G062.

G062 uses the same gears and same 88mm clutch as the G060 series, but it spins in the opposite direction, so a G060.750 clutch will not work. Grin sells replacement clutches for $60 plus shipping, and if you look very very hard for custom 88mm clutches on Aliexpress you can find the correct one for $20 bucks.

G062 is available in both 12mm and 14mm axles. The 14mm being superior just due to strength. The other benefit is from the motors I have seen, the 14mm axle version has a single locknut on the cassette side rather than 2 locknuts, what this means is you can disassemble the motor without removing the cassette. Risunmotor on aliexpress seems to sell the 14mm axles. The magnets seem to be epoxied better than some of the older versions of the motor but that is just speculation. The phase wires are slightly higher gauge than the standard bafang L1019 cables. I recommend Risunmotor for these reasons (larger axle, single locknut, possibly better glue on magnets, slightly higher gauge phase wires). Grin sells a more expensive motor that includes a temp sensor.

L1019 phase wires seem to be quite adequate. The phase wires are NOT as large as the Grin 4mm2 (12gauge) phase wires, they are a smaller size (2.5mm2 I believe) as its the largest that will fit through the axle with hall wires, in an insulated jacket, however they are quite adequate, even for power levels in the 5000w range, phase amps up to 90+ amps has been reliable.

Overheating the motor- A temp sensor is by far the best way to monitor, but as a crude alternative, if the shell/case of the motor gets to the point where you cannot leave your finger on it for 1 full second (less than 1 second) it has reached the point of overheating where you may experience burned windings. My theory is if you can leave your finger on the shell for several seconds or longer you are okay, for only 1-2 seconds, use caution, and 1 second or less requires an immediate cool down break, or risking burned/melted windings as you have likely hit overheat temperature. When the motor is at these temperatures, running high current (90 phase amps) through the motor for a period of as little as 30 seconds, can melt the windings.

Motor Breakage - It seems around 1500w-2000w motor power is in the safe zone for an L1019 equipped G062 motor. Increasing beyond this amount is where components can start to break. I think phase amps (torque) is more important than total wattage. Phase amps around 60-75 or less I would consider safe for a stock motor. Bafang has around 85nm listed as max torque which would equate to around 75-80 phase amps as a maximum, I find this to be accurate. The nylon gears seem to slip and therefore can strip and disintegrate when going beyond this amount. The gears usually begin to strip within the first 20 miles of running hard, this has happened to me on several motors and several brand new gear sets. I was able to fix the issue by replacing the gears to half steel half nylon has solved this problem and I have not had a gear issue since. However it brings a new issue. With the stronger gears, going beyond the 75 or so phase amps, instead of the gears slipping it seems to put the pressure on the parallel key / drive key / feather key inside the motor where it will shear off entirely, this has happened to me 5+ times. It also usually seems to happen within the first 5-20 hard miles, just like the nylon gear failure. I was able to solve this issue by replacing with a stainless steel parallel key (or a longer parallel key) which has been holding up much better at 90+ phase amps. However it could be a safety concern- the OEM parallel key may be designed to shear off to prevent motor damage or injury if the motor were to lock up, running steel gears and stainless steel key there is a chance the motor could lock up uncontrollably. Both of these upgrades cost around $30 usd total (gears and parallel key), allowing me to go from 60-75 phase amps up to 90+. Running 90-120 phase amps I have had 3 clutches break, it essentially welded itself where the clutch would no longer freewheel and was in a locked position in both directions, the motor functions fine but the freewheel would not engage (same as a welded clutch), this has happened to 3 of my clutches so far. The bike still pedals fine with a welded clutch and virtually no added drag. Bottom line, when going above 60-75 phase amps, there are multiple motor internals that can break and/or may need to be upgraded, however if keeping below 60-75 phase amps you are much less likely to experience these issues. Lastly magnets can come loose which seems to be caused by overheating the motor. You will hear a rattling sound under maximum torque (low rpm usually) when this happens. This will usually but not always occur before the windings themselves melt, somewhere in the 140-160c sustained temperature range seems to be where the magnet glue will melt.

Venting the motor - Venting the motor has made a HUGE increase in performance. I vented both sides of the motor. I ride hard offroad and have not (yet) experienced any catastrophic damage from venting. The performance gains have been massive, 50% or more increase in total performance.

Tire size - Just like venting the motor, the tire size makes a huge difference in performance. You can simulate these results with the grin simulator. The smaller diameter tire the better, in terms of acceleration performance, hill climb performance, and overall motor overheating performance. For offroad use, or hill climbs, depending on RPM, as 23" tire vs 27.5" tire will have overheating improvement gains as high as 50%+ under certain circumstances.

Continuous Wattage: Between the smaller tire diameter and venting, to maximize the performance of this motor, I am able to run a 5000w+ setup, offroad, with a heavy bike, at 30mph continuous. I average 2000w battery and 1500w motor output watts sustained/continuous for 2+ hours and the winding temps typically stay below 120-130c. I have done a 3000ft climb (1000m) around 10% grade at 20-30mph and saw winding temps of about 130c at the top. The stock motor on 27.5 tires going slower pulling less watts, would have required 2 cooldown breaks along the way. I seem to get around the same performance as a 2000w or 3000w DD motor when running speeds less than 30mph. Very solid performance from a "750w" motor.

Voltage - I run mine at 72v. Running up to 60v seems to be fine, at 72v It gets excessively noisy and does not sound good at maximum voltage. I do not have a firm conclusion on this yet, although the bike will run 40+mph, I generally keep mine below 30-35mph to avoid maximum volts/rpm as it does not sound good at maximum RPM at that high of a voltage, but will continue to test this and have not yet had an issue at 72v.

Maximum phase amps - ~75 phase amps seems to be right around the maximum for a stock motor. G062 motors, vented, with small diameter wheels for optimal heat reduction and upgraded gears/drive key. Running 90 phase amps has been mostly reliable for 1000+ miles of hard riding (continuing to test). I switched to a 80a/120 phase amp controller and melted a motor within just a few miles, way too quickly reading temps above 150c. Thinking it could have been a fluke, or controller issue, or a short, I tested another new motor with a new controller at 65a 150 phase amps and the same thing occurred. The motor reaches operating temp/saturation temperature within a just a mile or two at 100-120c, and once warm, the motor seems to overheat under regular/hard riding conditions within as little as 1 mile. Even taking it relatively "easy" the motor would still hit 150c+ temps within < 1 mile or two of saturation temperature, even without uphill climbs. I ended up melting/shorting another set of windings with this setup, and less than 10 miles total on the brand new motor, under "regular" riding conditions. My conclusion is 120-150 phase amps is just too much even for a vented motor. It may work for a drag race, but for any type of normal riding conditions it seems to be much too high, 90 phase amps was the most I have been able to run reliably. On the bright side the upgraded stainless steel gears, drive pin, and stock L1019 connector did hold up to the 150 phase amps, atleast for the short 20 or so miles worth of testing, the motor windings themselves overheating seemed to be the failure point. My windings have typically failed when reading temps between 150-170c and higher.

I am running 72v, 60a (so nearly 5000w peak), 90 phase amp (105nm torque), with the vented motor and smaller wheel size, upgraded gears and parallel key and a 6.5T (high turn motor), and with reasonable temperature monitoring it seems to be somewhat "reliable". This is what I have settled at for now. The limiting factor being primarily the windings themselves. The motor generally does not overheat under regular/hard riding conditions, once the motor is hot, steep climbs (15%+) and deep sand where using full throttle at max phase amps (20mph and below) it will only sustain the heat for about 30 seconds continuous before overheating.

Hope this helps someone!
 
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I think youre the guy.
Nooo windings are past my limit. I do have a melted motor that could use a rewind. I'm no expert in winding. I dont see the point though, it wont add any copper fill? The motors I get are 6.5T (low rpm motors already) so I dont really see the point? But with the smaller tire and venting its like twice as good as the stock motor, I can run it hard and only have to worry about overheating after long sustained 20%+ grades or such. Plus it cools down quicker. Working good finally!
 
This info was great; thanks for the detailed write up.
I personally have a g063 that came with my bike, and I'm looking for a stronger controller to increase performance, but and confused as to how easy or difficult it would be the phaserunner motor cable swapped to the L1121 connector on the motor. Do you suggest I get a phaserunner and just swap the connector? Or get an alibaba controller with the right connector stock?
 
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This info was great; thanks for the detailed write up.
I personally have a g063 that came with my bike, and I'm looking for a stronger controller to increase performance, but and confused as to how easy or difficult it would be the phaserunner motor cable swapped to the L1122 connector on the motor. Do you suggest I get a phaserunner and just swap the connector? Or get an alibaba controller with the right connector stock?
I have not seen any alibaba controllers with an L1019 or L1122 plug, atleast not any controllers larger than 25-30 amp. I use cheap chinese controllers instead of the phaserunner personally. Risunmotor sells a 45amp controller that puts out 60-70 phase amps and is programmable (can increase/decrease the battery current) with a sw900 display, or possibly UKC1 display as well, and it sells for about $60 bucks. I run that controller on a stock motor and havent broken anything yet at those power levels. JN controllers have a 60 amp controller thats 90 phase amps and works great too but is not programmable you are stuck at the full power and cannot decrease. The power is high enough (90 phase amps) that it may break the nylon gears or parallel key inside the motor or it may not, when using that much power. The reason I like the chinese controllers over the Grin controller is they are cheaper if you blow them, they are much cheaper initially (60 bucks vs 400 bucks) and both of those controllers are dual mode which means they can be run sensorless. So in the event that you blow your hall sensors, or need to run new phase wires someday, you can still use the controller and motor. They are also plug and play and do not require computer programming. The downside is they are larger and may be less "clean looking" depending what bike you put them on. What I would do is buy a L1122 cable, cut it in half, and solder the 5-6 hall wires to a hall wire box from aliexpress for ($3), and then use a connector box for the phase wires, or solder the 3 phase wires to the controller phase wires. That essentially will turn the controller into an L1122 controller. With a phaserunner you would have to do the same thing. Probably wouldnt want to cut the cable on your $400 controller, so it would be better to buy an L1019 cable and L1122 cable and solder those two together as an adapter, so that you dont cut the actual controller.
 
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This info was great; thanks for the detailed write up.
I personally have a g063 that came with my bike, and I'm looking for a stronger controller to increase performance, but and confused as to how easy or difficult it would be the phaserunner motor cable swapped to the L1122 connector on the motor. Do you suggest I get a phaserunner and just swap the connector? Or get an alibaba controller with the right connector stock?
Here’s a picture of what it looks like. Less clean than a phase runner but not too bad as you can see the hall sensor is unplugged, as I am able to run this controller sensorless.
 

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Thanks for the suggestions.
Maybe I'm just missing something, but why do I need to break out the hall sensor wires? Looking at the pinouts for both the L1121 connector* and the L1019 (for the Grin controllers) they both have the same pins (except for the temperature pin). Shouldn't I be able to just make my own direct L1019 <--> L1121 cable and drop a Baserunner right in?

For my specific scenario, I'm looking for as close to a drop-in replacement as possible for a Pedal Electric Core. I've been unable to get any data on what the battery performance is beyond 720wh and 48v, so I'm assuming it will be the limiting factor.
I've been considering the Baserunner and having something made by this company on alibaba who are making controllers with the L1121 directly for a reasonable price.
Looks like the Alibaba guy doesn't have anything over 36A, so much less performance than other options, but I'm worried that my battery won't be able to do much more anyway. Any thoughts?

On Risunmotor, I'm seeing a lot of similar looking controllers. It seems like I'd need to swap my display for one of theirs (not the end of the world), but all the controllers seem like I'd need to fully rewire everything vs the controller I linked above or the Baserunner which connect right to my existing hardware (ex-motor cable). I'm not afraid of a little soldering, but I'm short on experience and want to be confident that its going to work well if I just connect things up correctly.

*using the Bafang S307 controller manual which appears to be meant for the G063 motor (honestly would be cool if I could find one for sale somewhere to just get a more or less plug n play option to explore)
 
Thanks for the suggestions.
Maybe I'm just missing something, but why do I need to break out the hall sensor wires? Looking at the pinouts for both the L1121 connector* and the L1019 (for the Grin controllers) they both have the same pins (except for the temperature pin). Shouldn't I be able to just make my own direct L1019 <--> L1121 cable and drop a Baserunner right in?

For my specific scenario, I'm looking for as close to a drop-in replacement as possible for a Pedal Electric Core. I've been unable to get any data on what the battery performance is beyond 720wh and 48v, so I'm assuming it will be the limiting factor.
I've been considering the Baserunner and having something made by this company on alibaba who are making controllers with the L1121 directly for a reasonable price.
Looks like the Alibaba guy doesn't have anything over 36A, so much less performance than other options, but I'm worried that my battery won't be able to do much more anyway. Any thoughts?

On Risunmotor, I'm seeing a lot of similar looking controllers. It seems like I'd need to swap my display for one of theirs (not the end of the world), but all the controllers seem like I'd need to fully rewire everything vs the controller I linked above or the Baserunner which connect right to my existing hardware (ex-motor cable). I'm not afraid of a little soldering, but I'm short on experience and want to be confident that its going to work well if I just connect things up correctly.

*using the Bafang S307 controller manual which appears to be meant for the G063 motor (honestly would be cool if I could find one for sale somewhere to just get a more or less plug n play option to explore)

"Making your own direct L1019" are you saying make this out of the motor cable? Imean you can, but its going to kinda ruin your motor cable if you do it that way. You are going to have a bunch of solder joints and a homemade looking kit and its permanent. If it were me I would solder two cables together as an adapter cable, just to keep things clean and not harm the motor cable, but either way. It also keeps your options open in the future if a L1121 controller does come out in the future or something.

Yeah Idk the battery is probably limited at 20-30amps. Probably dont wanna go above that. Keep in mind you will get more phase amps than battery amps.
 
I mean make my own adapter cable like you mentioned. I can just make the right connections between the connectors on each end of the homemade adapter cable and be good, right? The "connector box for the phase wires" part is confusing me a bit.

Ah a "normal" limit for a battery included in a bike like that is 20-30 amps? Is there any way to measure that? I've looked around online and have only found techniques for measuring the total capacity of the battery, not its continuous amperage (of the BMS I assume?)? Will a more advanced controller (for example the Grin ones which seem to have an autotune) be able to detect the battery properties during set up in any way? (I'll email the Grin people as well to ask, just wondering if you know offhand)
 
I mean make my own adapter cable like you mentioned. I can just make the right connections between the connectors on each end of the homemade adapter cable and be good, right? The "connector box for the phase wires" part is confusing me a bit.

Ah a "normal" limit for a battery included in a bike like that is 20-30 amps? Is there any way to measure that? I've looked around online and have only found techniques for measuring the total capacity of the battery, not its continuous amperage (of the BMS I assume?)? Will a more advanced controller (for example the Grin ones which seem to have an autotune) be able to detect the battery properties during set up in any way? (I'll email the Grin people as well to ask, just wondering if you know offhand)
You dont need a connector box if you are making an adapter cable. The connector box is if you connect a new cable to a controller directly. You could solder the phase wires directly, but a connector box allows them to be connected with ring terminals. The benefit of doing so allow the controller to not be cut/damaged, allows it to be disconnected, and allows it to be switched to other cables in the future if needed. Just like using a hall box connector rather than soldering the hall wires directly.

Sometimes it will say on the battery somewhere. If not you could try and locate the battery fuse and see what amps are listed on the fuse, or go on to a forum from that manufacturer and see if someone else knows. If you try and pull too many amps you would likely blow the fuse. No I dont think the grin controller can do that.
 
This post is incredibly relevant to my current project - thanks for the deep dive, OP.

I have the G062 on my bike, and I'm looking to upgrade to a 35A controller and a couple of 52v batteries so my bike can keep up with my girl's Ariel 52v x.

I noticed that you're speaking of limitations on the motor in terms of phase amps the motor is seeing (keeping them at or below 60), but GPT is giving me a number much lower than 60 and I'm wondering if I'm not asking the question in the right way.

Here's what GPT has to say:
The phase current (I_ph) an electric bike motor sees in a system using a controller rated for 35A and a 52V battery can be calculated using the formula:

I_ph = P / (√3 * V)

Where:

  • I_ph is the phase current in amperes (A).
  • P is the power output of the motor in watts (W).
  • V is the voltage of the battery in volts (V).
  • √3 is the square root of 3, which accounts for the three-phase nature of the motor.
First, you need to calculate the power output (P) of the motor. Since power (P) is equal to voltage (V) multiplied by current (I), you can rearrange the formula to find P:

P = V x I

In this case, you have a 52V battery and a 35A controller. Therefore:

P = 52V x 35A = 1820W

Now that you have the power output (P) and battery voltage (V), you can calculate the phase current (I_ph):

I_ph = 1820W / (√3 * 52V) ≈ 19.62A

So, the phase current that the electric bike motor sees when using a 35A controller and a 52V battery is approximately 19.62 amperes (A). This calculation takes into account the three-phase nature of the motor and the provided voltage and current ratings.

Regarding my target configuration, Is the number 19.62 (I_ph = 1820W / (√3 * 52V) ≈ 19.62A)?

Or is it 60.62 (√3 * 35A ≈ 60.62A)?

Or is it something else entirely? lol

Thanks again for all the info on this motor, and thanks in advance for any clarity you can provide.
 
This post is incredibly relevant to my current project - thanks for the deep dive, OP.

I have the G062 on my bike, and I'm looking to upgrade to a 35A controller and a couple of 52v batteries so my bike can keep up with my girl's Ariel 52v x.

I noticed that you're speaking of limitations on the motor in terms of phase amps the motor is seeing (keeping them at or below 60), but GPT is giving me a number much lower than 60 and I'm wondering if I'm not asking the question in the right way.

Here's what GPT has to say:


Regarding my target configuration, Is the number 19.62 (I_ph = 1820W / (√3 * 52V) ≈ 19.62A)?

Or is it 60.62 (√3 * 35A ≈ 60.62A)?

Or is it something else entirely? lol

Thanks again for all the info on this motor, and thanks in advance for any clarity you can provide.
I'm not an electrical engineer, I'm a ebike hobbyist dirtbiker that breaks s*it :D

I think that is calculating the phase current at max rpm / max voltage. That would be the lowest phase current. The highest phase current is at 0mph right when you accelerate, or low RPMs. That calculation also does not take into affect resistance losses, voltage sag, or what not. The phase current will be limited generally by the controller you use. The grin simulator is an excellent tool to find phase currents, you can plug in your setup and get results the G062 is pre programmed into their system. Its hard to use the grin simulator 100% correct, you really need to know what you are doing, but even if you use it 90% correct, you should get mostly accurate numbers or atleast in the ballpark. 35 amp controllers probably have phase current limits around 50 amps give or take. A 52v battery with 35a or higher BMS is high enough to get 50 amps phase current or more, so it would be the controller limiting your max phase current not the battery. The battery amps dictate how high of an rpm the 50 amps will continue before starting to reduce. For example if you had a 100 amp discharge battery and controller running at 50 phase amps you would get all 50 phase amps up to max rpm, if you are running a smaller battery such as 35 amp discharge battery the phase current would start falling off around 50% rpm which is normal for most ebikes. I know its hard to find the phase current numbers on lots of the chinese stuff. A good way to check is to properly setup a grin simulation and find an incline- if the grin simulator says your setup at 50 phase amps should be able to climb a 15% grade from 0 rpm but not climb a 16% grade from 0 rpm you can go test that in the real world pretty easily, thats how I test some of my controllers to find what phase current they are putting out
 
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I think youre the guy.
I ended up doing MONSTER vent holes (2-3x as large as the previous/JTK's) just for testing to see if it brings temps down significantly or not. I'm also going to try ferrofluid, I know its "stupid" for geared motors, specifically vented geared motors offroad, but going to give it a shot for testing purposes only, along with class H 180C varnish- so it will be monster vents + FF + heat sinks + high temp coating + 22.7" OD tires (and the stainless steel internals).

Additionally im going to custom wind another motor with larger gauge wires and more copper fill.

Stay tuned, lol.

IMG_1294.jpeg
 
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I'm a bit embarrassed to show this, but half hearted wrapping joints that were temporary, but ended up being permanent, got so hot they melted the original bafang high temp insulation, a long hilly push home was my fate.

o
Screenshot_20231107-052315-188.png


Redone and soldered properly now
 
I'm a bit embarrassed to show this, but half hearted wrapping joints that were temporary, but ended up being permanent, got so hot they melted the original bafang high temp insulation, a long hilly push home was my fate.

oView attachment 166043

Redone and soldered properly now
My motors are 6.5T rather than 6T to it helps a little, but ive actually never melted phase wires with the L1019. Even with the vents, the windings themselves typically short before the phase wires do. Then again the venting might help the phase wires too, keeping the internal portion of the phase wires cooler reducing heat buildup
 
Currently running both water and air cooled modded G062 with 8 awg phases. I'm using both L10 & MT60 for phase connectors.
My bike on this link. DYNO day coming soon.

 
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