Whoa.. is this real? An actual 3000W controller for the Bafang Ultra ?

[Explorer-1]

With the shark pack, you can get 120 seconds of 3000W . With the Xtour and UC Pro and the Titan pack, you can get substantially loger term 3000W performance.

I don't want to do do false advertising. The product achieves what is mentioned. We cannot defy laws of physics, and I don't want to claim it does. PLease let me know where you think we can word it better and I will make those changes.

My feeling is all non qualified power rating should be nominal at 60% battery (because most people probably don't run their battery below 20%), and other ratings should be qualified with peak or what ever. The rating should be mechanical, not electrical power input. I appreciate you do your best in a crazy world.

You might also want to review your Q-Factor comments on your new cranks as well. I'm sure you said in 1 that you saved a mm, but they "might" be .1% that could benefit from 1mm or even detect it. So any benefits may be related to something else 1mm over the length of that crank I don't believe would change much either so not sure where the benefit would come from, maybe you mis-spoke on the difference? They look better though I'll admit though, I never tried them, and never did the calculations.


(ps. battery % is so bad of a metric though since often the system will already be limited to 80% true capacity and then the customer limits to 80% of that, and actual capacity is almost always over stated in e-bike/high-power applications)

 

[pushkar]

My feeling is all non qualified power rating should be nominal at 60% battery (because most people probably don't run their battery below 20%), and other ratings should be qualified with peak or what ever. The rating should be mechanical, not electrical power input. I appreciate you do your best in a crazy world.

You might also want to review your Q-Factor comments on your new cranks as well. I'm sure you said in 1 that you saved a mm, but they "might" be .1% that could benefit from 1mm or even detect it. So any benefits may be related to something else 1mm over the length of that crank I don't believe would change much either so not sure where the benefit would come from, maybe you mis-spoke on the difference? They look better though I'll admit though, I never tried them, and never did the calculations.


(ps. battery % is so bad of a metric though since often the system will already be limited to 80% true capacity and then the customer limits to 80% of that, and actual capacity is almost always over stated in e-bike/high-power applications)

You re right.. that's why we specify that it is 3000W peak, and 2300W nominal (76% of true peak).

On the cranks, it is 1mm on each side, and that changes it by 5% overall and it is definitely noticeable. We have not only eliminated the difference in clearance between the default cranks (very very slight on both sides), we have actually reduced the Q factor. The overall change is between 5-10% better performance counting both issues.

For me personally, having balanced, correct length cranks have eliminated (uneven) leg strain issues. I am only making these custom cranks since it had a tangible health benefit for me and a couple of my beta customers.

I believe in user focused innovation. I want to provide the very best that is available to my customers. Some of it may sound a little "flourishy" for sure. I am operating at a price point where my buyers are very well informed, and for them every little detail matters.

I appreciate you looking and your positive feedback. That means a lot!

 

[Explorer-1]

You re right.. that's why we specify that it is 3000W peak, and 2300W nominal (76% of true peak).

On the cranks, it is 1mm on each side, and that changes it by 5% overall and it is definitely noticeable. We have not only eliminated the difference in clearance between the default cranks (very very slight on both sides), we have actually reduced the Q factor. The overall change is between 5-10% better performance counting both issues.

For me personally, having balanced, correct length cranks have eliminated (uneven) leg strain issues. I am only making these custom cranks since it had a tangible health benefit for me and a couple of my beta customers.

I believe in user focused innovation. I want to provide the very best that is available to my customers. Some of it may sound a little "flourishy" for sure. I am operating at a price point where my buyers are very well informed, and for them every little detail matters.

I appreciate you looking and your positive feedback. That means a lot!

Hmm maybe your website is not working correctly on safari on the mac, or maybe I missed something. Still i believe peak should be at 60% battery, or because it is peak quoted both at full and 60% as one data point is not useful.

i must be missing something on your website as you give lots of tech details on the forum, but i didn't find much on the website. I'll check back there.

You're definitely working in the right direction, especially with the new controller. Although you didn't describe it as sinewave, but a modulated controller. If modulated, what is the base waveform, or is it still pulse-width modulated.

Can you tell us which cells you are using in your new Titan battery? Liking the fair price on that.

 

[pushkar]

Hmm maybe your website is not working correctly on safari on the mac, or maybe I missed something. Still i believe peak should be at 60% battery, or because it is peak quoted both at full and 60% as one data point is not useful.

i must be missing something on your website as you give lots of tech details on the forum, but i didn't find much on the website. I'll check back there.

You're definitely working in the right direction, especially with the new controller. Although you didn't describe it as sinewave, but a modulated controller. If modulated, what is the base waveform, or is it still pulse-width modulated.

Can you tell us which cells you are using in your new Titan battery? Liking the fair price on that.

Yup.. this is more a sneak peek right now. I am in the process of updating the site with more details on the performance etc.. wanted to start creating a buzz so people know it's available

Yes it is sinewave - FOC.

Titan will have Samsung 35E for the regular packs (~1100wh), and LG HG2 for the Higher power version (~1000wh).

 

[TomD]

Does it really need the downhill fork? Seems this fork is really pushing the price up a bit. Not that anyone buying this bike is on a budget.

 

[pushkar]

I just noticed on your other page that you have an option for Manitou Dorado Pro, which is a downhill fork.
But you still have the Rockshox Super Deluxe R, which is more for Trail bike / Cross Country bike.

I don't know.. maybe you could offer both Trail ver. and Downhill ver. ?

Sorry, not trying to give you a hard time, it's just that I used to ride MTB a lot and I tend to notice things like that..
But if you ask any MTB rider, one on the main page is definitely a trail bike, not downhill.

Stocks pics. Will be overhauling more details as we get closer to shipping. I will be using "Trail" bike as the word of choice. The Dorado will be available the price I am quoting at the moment. the Yari RC Debon Air option will be slightly cheaper.

Don't worry about the feedback -

I appreciate this.

 

[pushkar]

Does it really need the downhill fork? Seems this fork is really pushing the price up a bit. Not that anyone buying this bike is on a budget.

The Yari RC Debon Air option will be slightly cheaper.

 

[pushkar]

Just curious..

Will Archon X1 upgrade available for current WattWagons owners?
I can see people with fat bikes like CrossTour wanting to upgrade it.

Yes. that upgrade is available for all WW customers. We will prioritize WW customers for the upgrade and I have been in touch with some of them already.

 

[TomD]

The Yari RC Debon Air option will be slightly cheaper.

$1000 less right? Seriously though, I noticed Exess offered the Manitou as a pricey option, wasn't sure how much it truly added to the price. Same for the dropper, it seemed excessively priced as an add on. Adding it all up implied there was only $445 of fat in all the options comparing retail prices. Of course I'm not reflecting priceless WW service.

$6,546 HP-E180
$433 Upgraded controller
$389 Dropper
$989 Manitou
$87 Chain guide
---------
$8444 Total

Watt Wagons:
$7,999 retail comparison
$7,599 (sale)

 

[pushkar]

$1000 less right? Seriously though, I noticed Exess offered the Manitou as a pricey option, wasn't sure how much it truly added to the price. Same for the dropper, it seemed excessively priced as an add on. Adding it all up implied there was only $445 of fat in all the options comparing retail prices.

$6,546 HP-E180
$433 Upgraded controller
$389 Dropper
$989 Manitou
$87 Chain guide
---------
$8444 Total

Watt Wagons:
$7,999 retail comparison
$7,599 (sale)

Man.. wait..my math was wrong... let me up the price to $8,444 for the regular model.

Edit: Done.

 

[TomD]

When I'm on price is right I'll know exactly what to bid for the showcase, ha!

 

[TomD]

Pushkar, does Exess charge $900 extra for 3000W? I was comparing to your 750W price. If I add $900 for the 3000W version I come pretty close to the Exess price in USD so is there really a discount? I realize you may be offering a better warranty, service, etc. among other intangibles but is it really priced ~$900 less than Exess, at least for the 3000W version?

5,890 € Base EXESS HP-E180
+ 390 € upgraded controller
+ 890 € upgraded manitou fork
+ 350 € wireless dropper upgrade
+ 78 € chain guard
------
7598 € (approx $8500)

 

[TomW]

I live in the UK and I'm sending my ultra to Germany today to get a Archon X1 fitted, my original controller has died so had to replace it anyway. I'm only getting the 1000 watt 1600 peak version as my batteries proberbly are not powerful enough for the 3k version.
But I shall post here agin once my bike is back up and running to let you all know what I think, whether it seems smoother, if I get more range or if I notice any other performance gains.

 

[TomD]

Read the link in the OP. Many other benefits. Personally I care more about the refinement and efficiency than power.

 

[TomW]

Timpo,
Yes it has the same output Wattage as the stock controller but to be honest Im not after more power my 160mm Enduro style bike is good for 35 - 40 mph anyway.
My controller has blown so it HAD to be replaced regardless!. And I cannot afford to start replacing batteries etc.
But if what I have read and have been told first hand by the company that makes the controller "Inno-trace" is true I should see other benifits.
Better power curve,
Smoother operation,
Better torque sensing PAS,
Better battery life, (between 15% to 25%)
Better circuit protection (so I do not blow up this one)
and a performance increase even at the same wattage.

I think the standard motor is great and would not do this upgrade unless I had to fix it but I have noticed a few issue's with it.
lumpy power delivery.
Top end power drop off and inconsistancy (kinda feels like the power is pulsed sometimes).
If it gets my bike working ill be happy and if it irons out some if standard motors quirks that will be a bonus.

 

[vincent]

cannot wait to hear your feedback TomW

 

[TomW]

Slow progress at the moment I have the motor back with new controller, but I have issues with the loom and/or the display possibly they caused the original controller to blow in the first place. After about a week of searching for a loom I finally track it down.
I need to give a shout out to Watt Wagons as they seem to be the only people in the world that can supply me one lol.

 

[TomW]

Yay the parts have arrived, stuck in customs for about a week but finally have them, thanks Pushkah and Happy Birthday, hope you had a good one.
Fingers crossed everything will be working again tommorow. Oh a quick question regarding the Archon X1, does it retain the same functionality of the original controller? for example changing wheel size, top speed etc through the display in the the same way?
Anyway looking forward to trying out my upgraded/repaired Ultra system hopefully it will be done and dusted so I can treat it to some nice new wheels and possibly start on a Ultra project 2 maybe a hardtail this time. (maybe your ti frame).
Was thinking of taking my time on the next build but I will buy the electronics now so I will always have emergency spares for the Enduro to give me the ability to get it up and running again in less than 24hrs if it does fail.
But I will take my time on all the rest of the parts waiting for sales etc over the course of the next year or 2.
May attach some photo's of the Enduro bike tommorow, and some short video of it in action(on private land) to show what I have, well if it is working I will

 

[TomW]

It's working!
I decided to change out the andersons coming from the battery before putting it all back together and it was finished today, Unfortunatly here in th UK it has decided to rain for the first time in a month, typical. So a proper test has been delayed.
But I did take it for a short blast and it is functioning, I need to tidy the cables up a bit at the handlebars which I have started doing now.

 

[TomW]

It dried up a bit, so took it for a 10 mile ride, which took me up the biggest hill in my area which it flew up.
Time to go wheel shopping I think
Excuse the photo quality cheap smartphone and not great lighting.
But this is the beast, what can I say spec wise.
A chinese Aluminium frame.
Rock shox Lyryk.
Hope tech Anchors.
XT Groupset.
Race face finishing kit.
and a Archon X1 upgraded Ultra motor.
And soon some better wheels .
And a big smile on my face.
Still need to tidy those cables up tho