What's You're Plan For Major Breakdown?

[PCeBiker]

OK, I get what you are saying now.

You may be able to find a gear and chain length that just happens to fit perfectly without having to mess with the axle or adjusters at all.

That would certainly be nice, and KISS at it's best.

And being as you have tons of torque you can probably pick any gear between 2 and 6 (or more?) to make that happen for you, especially if you can find a half link to work with.

My way involves picking gear number 4 (which you say is optimal) and making if fit perfectly using your adjuster slots, but that would be a lot more work especially in the field.

Avoiding the need for an Idler wheel is still probably something that you would want to do.

I don't think that you need to be "changing gears" for your emergency recovery.

One optimal gear should be more than adequate.


Removing the original chain and installing the emergency chain (via the quick link) means that your not sacrificing your original to make an emergency chain in the field either.
There's a pretty good chance that your chain won't be damaged when you break your derailleur, so you can reuse it when you get home and fix/replace your derailleur.

Picking a gear that allows you to pedal with a nice average cadence will allow you to help out as much as possible so that you aren't relying on your throttle too much and decreasing your range so that you can make it home without draining your batteries.

Going slower helps increase your range too and if you do run out of battery, it's best to be stuck in a lower gear so that you can still pedal the bike.

 

[PCeBiker]

There was a fair amount of slop due to getting the thick/thin section of the chain to fit the 44t front gear.

That's new to me.
I didn't know that there was such a thing.
I can see that limiting your options quite a bit.

 

[m@Robertson]

The crappy one has two shelves.
Maybe for a thicker motorcycle chain?

I shouldn't call them shelves. Each of them is a guide. Both are used the same way. The inner one nearest the crank you turn is used to spread the links. If you put a chain on that guide and push on it with the tool's pin ONLY a little, it will spread the chain link and unstick it (only do this if its stuck, and only press a teeny bit until the link is free). It spreads the link because - since the guide is unsupported on both sides - your pin is pushing the link apart. Obviously overdoing this would be bad so do not work on half-turns... just touch it a teeny bit and if it didn't do the trick do it just a hair more and so on until job done.

 

[PCeBiker]

I shouldn't call them shelves. Each of them is a guide.

What I did like about the guide in my crappy tool was that it helped to stabilize and cradle the chain link so the link didn't move around.
But when I started cranking the tool's pin down onto the chain link, the tools pin would wobble around and then push off to the side of the chain links pin.

Some of those chain tools that were pictured, didn't appear to have anything to support the chain link, and I wonder how much I would struggle trying to keep the link stabilized while trying to press the tool's pin dead center on to the link pin, especially with the rounded mushroom head of both the link pin and tool's pin?

 

[PCeBiker]

The major break down that I'm most concerned about is a flat tire, so my plan was to install Tannus inserts and slime in my tubes.

Tannus says that you can ride on a flat tire at 10 km/h without damaging your tire, tube, or rim.

I wanted to ask the community if that is actually true, and is it still true for my 75 pound ebike with 26×4.00 fat tires?


Another hack that I learned about 25 years ago was that if you get a flat tire you stuff the tire full of whatever is available.
It happened to a freind of mine, and we stuffed handfuls of pine needles into the tire, and it worked great !
His tire was all lumpy, but we got ourselves out of the forest and back to our cars.
You can use anything kinda soft that's available. Moss, leaves, grass, crunched up newspaper, twigs, trash from the side of the road, your socks and T-shirt, pretty much anything except sand and gravel.

 

[PCeBiker]

@Nvreloader

I thought up a hack for you to help install your emergency chain,..

A spring loaded chain tensioner.
I bought a spool of shock cord.
It comes in handy for making stuff.
Ordinary rubber bands are made with crappy rubber that disintegrates and turns to mush.
Shock cord uses chemical proof long lasting rubber.

Here it is in action,..

I put that black "master pin" in the middle of the picture.
As you can see, it's binding a little and not draping like the other links.

I realized that I just need to push that black pin out, and the mushroomed pin to the left and simply replace that link with my Missing Link and my chain will be the same length.
I'm keeping the "master pin" though.
It's very special. lol

I can try my new Crank Brothers tool on it for practice.


@Nvreloader
I don't think a half link will work for you?
I think that you'll end up with two skinny slots in a row and you need to alternate them?

EDIT: I found this picture of a half link. It has two consecutive skinny slots.

 

[m@Robertson]

@PCeBiker The binding of the master pin is exactly why you want those two channels on a chainbreaker. Thats what its used to fix.

I suggest anyone thinking about it avoid trying a half-link for any solution with a standard chain. Been there and done that. Half-link chains are great for things like the drivetrain on a Cyclone motor. Where the whole chain is half links and very, very strong.

As for Tannus, there are plusses and minuses. I suggest searching around as there are entire threads dedicated to its discussion. I have stopped adding it to my wheels and instead used thick tubes (Schwalbe Air+ for example) and Flatout Sportsman formula sealant. Not their new bicycle formula. Consider it Slime 2.0 if Slime had continued developing their product beyond what it has been for the last couple-three decades.

 

[PCeBiker]

@PCeBiker The binding of the master pin is exactly why you want those two channels on a chainbreaker. Thats what its used to fix.

That's what I figured but that link is pretty messed up now, and I'm going to replace it with the Missing Link.

When I first tried to remove the link, I was reefing the HELL out of my chain breaker and knew something was going to break. That's when I stopped and figured that maybe it's a directional pin?
So I flipped the chain breaker around and then the pin came out quite easily.

I didn't think of trying to see if one end was bigger than the other at first and it would have been hard to measure that ½ mm difference even with my caliper, especially with the chain on the bike.

I did manage to push the pin the wrong way a smidgen though. Just enough to damage the link. Lol

As for Tannus, there are plusses and minuses. I suggest searching around as there are entire threads dedicated to its discussion. I have stopped adding it to my wheels and instead used thick tubes (Schwalbe Air+ for example) and Flatout Sportsman formula sealant. Not their new bicycle formula. Consider it Slime 2.0 if Slime had continued developing their product beyond what it has been for the last couple-three decades.

Awesome !! Thanks @m@Robertson
That's exactly what I wanted to know!!

Luckily I haven't installed the Slime yet and it is still in the bottle.

I did modify the installation tube by crimping on the needle of a turkey baster from the dollar store to hopefully avoid gunking up my valve stem with goo.

I don't know if it's going to work though? The slime might be too thick to squeeze through the needle?


After watching the video I purchased some Sportsman Flatout to use instead of the Slime.

It's kinda expensive here in Canada but well worth it I figure.
I've already got the Tannus inserts installed so adding the Flatout to my tubes should give me the best protection possible.
I should at least be able to get myself home, and not have to deal with a flat in the field.

 

[m@Robertson]

@PCeBiker I have done *exactly* that same thing with a baster needle, but not for the same reason. Some tubes (Continental in particular) have a flap at the bottom of the valve as it enters the tube proper and you have to push past that flap to get the sealant in. Sometimes it works, but also sometimes the sealant's fibers decide its trying to plug a hole in a tire and then they clump up and you have to pull the whole thing out and try again. Its best to just pull the core of your tire valve and use the open hole vs. the unobstructed tube.

There's no concern about gunking up your valve. Just take a hand towel to it when done. Shove it in a little and wipe. Make sure no one is looking and then blow into it like its a straw. Job done.

There's something else: Slime comes in two versions. The one you have is generally for automotive or utility tires that may or may not have tubes. The version with the red on the label is specific to bicycle tubes. Using the wrong one results in green slime splooged out everywhere and a flat tire. Do not ask me how I know this. This is the right version for bicycle tires.

Tube Sealant - 8 oz.

No more flats! Slime Tube Sealant seeks out and instantly seals punctures in your tubes up to 1/8" (3mm). Install in your bicycles, dirt bikes, wheelbarrows, riding mowers and more, and enjoy two years of continuous flat tire protection. Instantly seals up to 1/8" (3mm) punctures Seals...

slime.com

 

[PCeBiker]

@PCeBiker I have done *exactly* that same thing with a baster needle, but not for the same reason. Some tubes (Continental in particular) have a flap at the bottom of the valve as it enters the tube proper and you have to push past that flap to get the sealant in. Sometimes it works, but also sometimes the sealant's fibers decide its trying to plug a hole in a tire and then they clump up and you have to pull the whole thing out and try again. Its best to just pull the core of your tire valve and use the open hole vs. the unobstructed tube.

There's no concern about gunking up your valve. Just take a hand towel to it when done. Shove it in a little and wipe.

I am intending to remove the valve core and using Q-tips to clean out the valve stem figuring that should help to keep any stuff from getting into valve core.

Make sure no one is looking and then blow into it like its a straw. Job done.

Too funny. lol
I did the same thing to test my vacuum solenoids on my car.
You're supposed to use a vacuum pump/gauge to apply a vacuum and see if it holds pressure.
You just blow on the damn thing to check if it leaks, or suck on it if you need to apply a vacuum.
Gotta be careful when you apply a vacuum though, you could end up with a lung full of gas vapor, or a mouth full of liquid gas if things go really wrong. lol

There's something else: Slime comes in two versions.

They don't have it at my local Canadian Tire, and maybe not in Canada?

All they have is the 2 in 1.
I would have had to have it shipped from the US and then it would cost all most as much as the Flatout.

I just assumed that the Slime and Flatout were the same thing with different levels of hype, so I bought the Slime.

Thanks again for that link.
You caught me just in time. I was getting ready to add the slime.

Luckily I have been distracted by giving my ebike a brain transplant.
I'm installing a KT controller,..

 

[sc00ter]

Major breakdown moment today, just not ebike. My Piaggio Liberty 150 scooter has slowly been developing a problem for awhile now. Today was the first day in a week I've ridden the scooter to work and it died on me. I got it restarted and I'll limp it to a dealer a few miles away.

Who is coming to rescue me? My wife! Thank God she is patient and willing to meet me at the dealership at 5pm. Nice dinner for her tonight!

 

[Nomad]

That's not really too much of a concern of mine.
My ebike weighs about 75 pounds now anyway, an extra pound of few won't make much difference.
I've got Tannus inserts, Slime and a gell seat added to it already.
I don't mind adding a proper tool kit.
I've got a mini hand pump, but it would take about an hour to pump up one of those tires. lol
I'm thinking about a CO2 inflator?

View attachment 146048

I want to add another 10 pound 25 AH battery to the bike as well.
I think that I can attach a second battery to the top down tube?
(I might have to go with a smaller battery though?)

I don't think it's a factor for most people it is just that description suggested it was light.

 

[PCeBiker]

I don't think it's a factor for most people it is just that description suggested it was light.

I know what you mean.
A quality tool has to have more mass to it.
A small dense tool just has the feeling of quality to me.

A Chinese knock-off would be twice the size and half the weight.

I like when they paint the metal black so it looks like hardened steel. lol

 

[Nvreloader]

Well Guys
I got brave today, loosen all the rear axle bolts and the adjustment bolts,
and move the whole section forward almost an inch, it's all 1 piece,
made sure the tire was square and true to the frame etc.

Here is a Second UPDATE for the single gear emergency use,
Remember there is NO DERAILLIER, it has been destroyed and can't be used,
this is single gear EMERGENCY fix/use to get home.

(With rear axle section slide forward about 1".)
When using the 15T rear cassette gear to the 44T main drive gear,
I need 116 links of chain, approximately 3" of chain slop, (up/down).

Going up to the 20T gear, I need 118 links of chain,
approximately 3" of chain slop, (up/down).

Stepping up to the 26T gear, I need 120 links,
approximately 1" chain slop, (up/down).

At the largest 34T gear, I need 122 links,
with approximately 1" chain slop. (up/down).

The difference between the 34T to 15T gear is about 8 links,
depending on where the thick/thin links line up on the front drive gear.

I also found out that I need to add a couple of more tools for this bike,
a GOOD chain breaker pliers, for the quick links, along with a chain holder wire,
it took me over 2 hrs to get the quick links off the OEM chain,
and a 8MM end wrench, for the adjustment nut/bolt on the rear plate,
as there is none in my tool kit.

I am sure glad I am finding this out now............
Tia,
Don

 

[PCeBiker]

Are you intending to make one chain or more?
Are you intending on using more than one gear for your emergency trip?
I assume that you could move that plate back a bit to reduce the slack to exactly the amount you want?

I've never actually removed a quick link before. Perhaps my cheap Chinese chain pliers won't be adequate?
You probably have a much heavier duty chain than I've got though?

 

[fooferdoggie]

what do you do when yo0u break down? man I got there vaccinations at once I was tired yesterday made it through work wife and I had to scramble to get to her vaccination appointment on the tandem and that was too much for me. I feel like I got the flue I am broke down.

 

[Nvreloader]

PC
At this point in time, it's an unknown, it all depends on the chain tensioner
that I got coming, I finally found one that will fit the square frame are of the Wart Hog.
If the chain tensioner will take up the slack/slop out of the chain, I am hoping,
that I can use long enough chain/links to fit and use a couple of the cassette gears, before having to change the setup.

I'll just about have to use more than one gear, if I am the rough stuff,
or pulling up a hill and the derailleur bits the dust, I'll probably be using the
34T gear, going slow etc, when I get out the rough stuff and on the main county roads, I'll be using the 15T- 20T gears to get home, I would imagine.

I wouldn't want to be peddling in the 34T gear for 10+ miles, I cramp up and never walk straight again.......this 75y old body is finally getting use to peddling this 90+# bike around........... LOL
I normally run the 15T to 17T gear = 12-17mph during my normal riding
and use ECO 1 for power when needed.

Tia,
Don

Are you intending to make one chain or more?
Are you intending on using more than one gear for your emergency trip?
I assume that you could move that plate back a bit to reduce the slack to exactly the amount you want?

I've never actually removed a quick link before. Perhaps my cheap Chinese chain pliers won't be adequate?
You probably have a much heavier duty chain than I've got though?

 

[Taylor57]

what do you do when yo0u break down? man I got there vaccinations at once I was tired yesterday made it through work wife and I had to scramble to get to her vaccination appointment on the tandem and that was too much for me. I feel like I got the flue I am broke down.

Translate for me please.

 

[PCeBiker]

PC
At this point in time, it's an unknown, it all depends on the chain tensioner
that I got coming, I finally found one that will fit the square frame are of the Wart Hog.

I was thinking that a chain tensioner wouldn't be KISS and maybe not reliable, but you shouldn't have to mess with your axle and adjuster plate to use it, and if it does fail, you'll still have the option of using your adjusters to take up slack for one of your chain/gear combinations.

 

[PCeBiker]

I will tell you it isn't super lite because of the tool quality but, that is only a factor if you're really trying to save weight.

I meant lighter than a set of full size allen keys, screwdrivers, and chain breaker.

I'll see if I can muster up the 30 ft/pounds of torque needed for my crank bolts using the tool.
It looks like it won't dig into my hand the way a regular allen key would.

I'll connect it to my torque wrench to get a feel for the different torques I need on my bike.