What's You're Plan For Major Breakdown?

[PCeBiker]

I think I found a half decent chain breaker ??,..

https://a.co/d/5EOfdBi

 

[6zfshdb]

You can also spend a little more and get a high quality breaker like this one from Park Tool:

Park Tool CT-3.3 5-12 Speed Chain Tool | Tree Fort Bikes

www.treefortbikes.com

 

[PCeBiker]

You can also spend a little more and get a high quality breaker like this one from Park Tool:

That's about $65 in Canada.
Park Tool has a mini for cheaper, but the handles are small and would hurt your hands.

I found this list,..

Best workshop chain tools 2023 | 6 chain breakers rated by our experts

Our favourite heavy-duty chain breakers for the home mechanic

www.bikeradar.com

Topeak sounds like a good compromise.

Everything on AliExpress is like 4 bucks. lol

 

[Nomad]

Crankbrothers M19 is another great choice for a good chain breaker with a lot of the other tools you might find yourself needing.

 

[PCeBiker]

Probike multi tool with chain breaker. Stainless steel, compact 2"x3" short reach but works perfectly well on my 2 Emtbs.

That's a good idea.

Crankbrothers M19 is another great choice for a good chain breaker with a lot of the other tools you might find yourself needing.

I found this list,..

15 BEST Bike Multi Tools [Including Chain Breaker] In 2024

It can come in many shapes and forms, how many tools there are. To cut you some slack on finding the right one, we have made a list of the best bike

activepedal.com

And these,..

$65 plus tax but I get a whole tool kit.


And this for less money with only the tools that I need,..

I'm liking the Crankbrothers.
Small, light, practical and all the pieces are connected so you can't lose them.

 

[Nomad]

That's a good idea.



I found this list,..

15 BEST Bike Multi Tools [Including Chain Breaker] In 2024

It can come in many shapes and forms, how many tools there are. To cut you some slack on finding the right one, we have made a list of the best bike

activepedal.com

And these,..

View attachment 146045

$65 plus tax but I get a whole tool kit.


And this for less money with only the tools that I need,..

View attachment 146046


I'm liking the Crankbrothers.
Small, light, practical and all the pieces are connected so you can't lose them.

I will tell you it isn't super lite because of the tool quality but, that is only a factor if you're really trying to save weight.

 

[PCeBiker]

I will tell you it isn't super lite because of the tool quality but, that is only a factor if you're really trying to save weight.

That's not really too much of a concern of mine.
My ebike weighs about 75 pounds now anyway, an extra pound of few won't make much difference.
I've got Tannus inserts, Slime and a gell seat added to it already.
I don't mind adding a proper tool kit.
I've got a mini hand pump, but it would take about an hour to pump up one of those tires. lol
I'm thinking about a CO2 inflator?

I want to add another 10 pound 25 AH battery to the bike as well.
I think that I can attach a second battery to the top down tube?
(I might have to go with a smaller battery though?)

 

[PCeBiker]

Doing the chainbreaker thing is easy. Vastly easier than breaking the frame and then being sure to torque it back to spec in the field.

@m@Robertson Would breaking the chain and shortening it to fit a single gear while using a quick link and his slider slots to take up the slack be a good approach?

And what gear should he chose?
Does he need more than one gear? He does have A LOT of torque to work with.

 

[Nvreloader]

PC
Upon checking my bike, I found a quick link in the chain,
the chain is captured via the Boogie Wheels in the derailleur,
when this derailleur is destroyed, the OEM chain will Have to be removed
and if not useable, I have 2-116 lick chains and 12 quick links for replacements
to use for the single speed option.

If you look at your Post #70, you will see 2 silver colored Allen head bolts,
these 2 bolts clamp/hold the back section frame plate, that holds the derailleur,
looking at the left hand bolt, directly below it, is the axle bolt,
directly below the axle bolt and at 7 o'clock is the derailleur bolt.

That thickness the plate that the derailleur is bolted to is over .250" thick
in the step down area, the main thickness of this piece is .450" thick.
Any impact damage to the derailleur will destroy it
and not the main clamping piece I am 100 % sure etc.

I have figured out the information on breaking a chain,
I have the tools to do so, I know which gears I want/should use,
depending on riding conditions etc.

But I have a question,
would loosening the 2 silver clamping bolts, and sliding everything forward
as much as possible, cause any headaches/problems with the derailleur set up
and function, as it sets from the OEM setup?

I want to check the number of links needed to fit the 4 gear selection,
as for a Temporary TEST ONLY.
I may have the option to use a couple of premade up short chain options
depending on how the OEM chain tensioners work for the slack chain etc.

Thanks Guys
Your thoughts and suggestions.......
Don

 

[PCeBiker]

But I have a question,
would loosening the 2 silver clamping bolts, and sliding everything forward
as much as possible, cause any headaches/problems with the derailleur set up
and function, as it sets from the OEM setup?

Check to see if the derailleur and hanger move along with the axle as the axle is pulled forward in the slots.

If only the axle moves forward, and not the derailleur, then the derailleur will fall out of proper alignment.
(But it should go back to the OEM setup when the axle is pushed back to it's original position. Use a marker to mark the position of the bolts on the frame to make sure that they are positioned exactly where they were, in case they weren't actually completely "bottomed out" in the slots. And take note of the distance between the tire and the frame on either side so that you can position it exactly where it was by using either the left or right adjuster to center it.)

I want to check the number of links needed to fit the 4 gear selection,
as for a Temporary TEST ONLY.

If you were to set your new chain around the front chain ring and fourth gear without messing with your current setup, you will know the MAXIMUM length that your chain would need to be.
You will lose quite a few links as the axle moves forward and the chain gets shorter.
You can get a rough idea of how much chain length will be lost by measuring the length of the slot (from bolt centers at both ends of the slot) and multiplying by 2 (top and bottom of the chain).
That will tell you the range of how many links are needed to fit the chain ring and fourth gear while having the axle somewhere within the slot. (Keeping in mind a bit of space at either end of the slot for adjustment.)

I may have the option to use a couple of premade up short chain options
depending on how the OEM chain tensioners work for the slack chain etc.

You could just use your original chain after your derailleur breaks, loosen the axle, slide the axle forward in the slot just over half way, cut your original chain to length install the quick link then snug up the chain with your adjusters.
That way your not messing with anything now on your ebike.

Personally, I would want to familiarize myself with the process and make a spare chain and carry it with me. (Your bike already weighs 90 pounds and may have a 150 pound buck on it, so what's another couple pounds of chain in case everything goes to s*it. lol)

You could also familiarize yourself with the torque settings on all your bolts using your tool kit wrenches and check them with a torque wrench at home to get an idea of what it feels like to apply proper torque with the tools that you will be using.

 

[m@Robertson]

This is my KMC chain that I separated using what I think is a chain breaker.
There was a black master pin in the chain that I managed to remove.

View attachment 146032View attachment 146033


I struggled getting the master pin out (mostly because I was pushing it the wrong way at first. lol) but the other links look peened and really difficult to remove.

View attachment 146034

I was thinking that I would need to grind off the top of the pin to remove it if I had to.

Is there a different chain breaker that I can get that will remove those peened pins?
Was I only struggling because I was using a cheap Walmart chain breaker?

OK don't take this as a negative on you, because we all have to start learning somewhere, but you are doing it wrong. Here's the deal:

First of all, that single-speed chain appears to be an old-school type that does not have mushroomed pins, which means you can do the old-school method of pushing the pins out, and then back in again to re-section the chain. The more modern way is to use a master link, but I'll save that for later. For your chain, you went off the rails when you pushed that pin all the way out. Once you do that, getting it back in again is possible but not guaranteed, and a nightmare to make happen. I know a way to reliably do it but its not something I want to teach or you want to spend time learning. Instead what you do is NEVER let that pin go all the way out.

What you can do is practice on a sacrificial length of chain and do only a half-turn at a time. Count your half turns. As the pin gets further and further out, you start testing to see whether it is retracted enough to tease the chain apart. Once you find you can do it (there will still be a small nub of pin still sticking out on the inside) you remember how many turns it took to do that and file that knowledge away.

If you do have mushroomed ends on the chain, then what you do is twist hard and that lip will snap off as a natural part of the separation process. This is the reason you do not re-use chain links after pulling the pins. The pins will go back together but you have created a weak link in your chain by breaking off that little lip. You always re-section with master links. So if you are cutting a chain down to fewer links, thats fine. But if you are adding more back on you need to use a second master link, which is generally considered to be stronger than the actual original chain. BUT I'm not sure that is true with the style of master link you have on that chain. A more typical style of master link is seen on this Z8.3:

https://amzn.to/3jsHyTv

What I see in your pic is sort of an old-school kind of master link and I wouldn't trust it the way I do the snap-lock kind.

And yes you probably will have an easier time in life with a better chain breaker. I use the Park Mini Brute which is very small and fits into a tool bag on your bike. Bigger ones are easier to use but the mini brute is all thats necessary to get the job done reliably.

 

[m@Robertson]

You can also spend a little more and get a high quality breaker like this one from Park Tool:

Park Tool CT-3.3 5-12 Speed Chain Tool | Tree Fort Bikes

www.treefortbikes.com

Thats a bad choice for a noob. Its great but is missing something: lacks the middle 'shelf' that lets you spread a link a tiny bit, and fix a stuck link which happens a lot.

The Park Mini Brute. Notice the two pins sticking up above the chain. Thats a second channel to put the chain so you can spread it a touch.

The big expensive Park shop version doesn't have that. The sliding chrome plate is used for a different purpose.

 

[m@Robertson]

Also

I think I found a half decent chain breaker ??,..

View attachment 146038

https://a.co/d/5EOfdBi

The Topeak chainbreaker is a good, high-quality tool. But its more expensive than the Park, which is top of the line in the same league (compact tools you can carry with you on the bike). It does have the slightly desirable bit of wire to hold the chain links together for you so there's that. I keep a complete tool kit in each ebike I have so thats 9 chainbreakers, so I try and minimize my spend and standardize on just one. I forget which bike has the Topeak in it but I remember it works.

If you are looking for a bigger chainbreaker than the Park mini, the Topeak ain't it. If you need size, go to Amazon and look for the Oumers breaker. They are cheap and will not last forever, but have big paddly arms that will be comfortable.

EDIT: Here is the Oumers breaker in a bundle with their link pliers, which are every bit as good as the Park version and half the price... essentially free in this bundle though.

https://amzn.to/3l0kdZH

 

[fooferdoggie]

Probike multi tool with chain breaker. Stainless steel, compact 2"x3" short reach but works perfectly well on my 2 Emtbs.

too hard to use the tools they are too short to get everywhere. this is how I go.

 

[PCeBiker]

OK don't take this as a negative on you, because we all have to start learning somewhere, but you are doing it wrong. Here's the deal:

First of all, that single-speed chain appears to be an old-school type that does not have mushroomed pins, which means you can do the old-school method of pushing the pins out, and then back in again to re-section the chain. The more modern way is to use a master link, but I'll save that for later. For your chain, you went off the rails when you pushed that pin all the way out.

My chain does have mushroomed pins, except for that single black "master pin" that I figured was the one that I should be pressing out.

Yup, I pushed it right off the rails. lol

I did press it in just enough to clear the outer link and went to rotate that link out of the way and it wouldn't budge. I put pliers on it to try and rotate it and nothing. I thought it must be connected to the outer link on the other side, so I just kept pushing on the pin. I figured that I could push it to the other side until it clicked into the outer link, but there was still a lip in the way and I couldn't get the inner link out, so I just pushed the link onto the train tracks. lol

Once you do that, getting it back in again is possible but not guaranteed, and a nightmare to make happen.

Ohh, it was a challenge. lol
I must have dropped it 5 times when it came flying out of the chain breaker.
I ended up gluing a magnet to the table and stuck the pin on it while I figured out how I was going to get it back in.


In the meantime, I ordered some KMC single speed quick links, then thoroughly cleaned my chain with soap and water, brake cleaner and alcohol and gave it a hot wax treatment on the stove.
(I used my own plastic container because the kit was more money and came with half as much wax.)

I ended up using an adjustable pliers to press the pin back in, taking note of the direction, to install it the way it same way it came out.

I know a way to reliably do it but its not something I want to teach or you want to spend time learning. Instead what you do is NEVER let that pin go all the way out.

I'll keep that in mind, but I'm going to use quick links from now on.

Meanwhile, my chain is still holding with that master pin. I've put around 100 miles on the chain.

What you can do is practice on a sacrificial length of chain and do only a half-turn at a time. Count your half turns. As the pin gets further and further out, you start testing to see whether it is retracted enough to tease the chain apart. Once you find you can do it (there will still be a small nub of pin still sticking out on the inside) you remember how many turns it took to do that and file that knowledge away.

That makes sense. I didn't think of counting.

If you do have mushroomed ends on the chain, then what you do is twist hard and that lip will snap off as a natural part of the separation process.

That didn't look possible.
At least not with my piece of crap from Walmart. lol

This is the reason you do not re-use chain links after pulling the pins. You always re-section with master links. So if you are cutting a chain down to fewer links, thats fine. But if you are adding more back on you need to use a second master link, which is generally considered to be stronger than the actual original chain.

That's good to know.
I assumed the quick link would be the weakest link.

BUT I'm not sure that is true with the style of master link you have on that chain. A more typical style of master link is seen on this Z8.3:

https://amzn.to/3jsHyTv

What I see in your pic is sort of an old-school kind of master link and I wouldn't trust it the way I do the snap-lock kind.

That was a master link that I had in the garage for 25 years.
I thought I could possibly use it if I couldn't get the pin back in while I waited for my Missing Link to arrive.

And yes you probably will have an easier time in life with a better chain breaker. I use the Park Mini Brute which is very small and fits into a tool bag on your bike. Bigger ones are easier to use but the mini brute is all thats necessary to get the job done reliably.

I just ended up purchasing this,..

It will be here on Monday.

Thats a bad choice for a noob. Its great but is missing something: lacks the middle 'shelf' that lets you spread a link a tiny bit, and fix a stuck link which happens a lot.

The Park Mini Brute. Notice the two pins sticking up above the chain. Thats a second channel to put the chain so you can spread it a touch.

s*it !!
I think I'm missing a shelf. lol


EDIT: It looks like the Crank Brothers has a self,..

The crappy one has two shelves.
Maybe for a thicker motorcycle chain?

I made a hook out of a metal skewer from the dollar store.
Metal coat hangers are hard to find nowadays.

 

[indianajo]

This is my KMC chain that I separated using what I think is a chain breaker.

View attachment 146032

Was I only struggling because I was using a cheap Walmart chain breaker?

Yes. that looks like the **** schwinn chain breaker from the grocery store.
Get a citizen's choice, pedros, or full price park breaker from modernbike.com universalcycle.com or equivalent. I've used the first two successfully. Buy them with your tires to save freight.
Those multitools are too short to get proper torque on the axle nuts, seat mounts, steering column, handlebar clamp, brake mounts. At least with my hands. I carry mechaniics length allen wrenches from mcmaster.com lisle or bondrus, 6" or longer 15mm & 17 mm combo wrenches for rear axle, 18 mm for the motor axle. I have an extra long (7") 5 mm ball end allen wrench to adjust the front brake pad without taking the caliper off. I use a kids pencil box to keep the rain off them.

 

[PCeBiker]

EDIT: Here is the Oumers breaker in a bundle with their link pliers, which are every bit as good as the Park version and half the price... essentially free in this bundle though.

https://amzn.to/3l0kdZH

I found that breaker on Amazon and 5% of the peoples aid it broke the first time they used it.

I also ordered this from AliExpress.
It should be here in a few months. lol

I figure that the pliers don't have to be quality, and I've got 5 crappy quick links to get me through until I find a deal on KMC missing links.

 

[PCeBiker]

Yes. that looks like the **** schwinn chain breaker from the grocery store.
Get a citizen's choice, pedros, or full price park breaker from modernbike.com universalcycle.com or equivalent. I've used the first two successfully.
Those multitools are too short to get proper torque on the axle nuts, seat mounts, steering column, handlebar clamp, brake mounts. At least with my hands. I carry mechaniics length allen wrenches from mcmaster.com or bondrus, 6" or longer 15mm & 17 mm combo wrenches, 18 mm for the motor axle. I have an extra long (7") 5 mm ball end allen wrench to adjust the front brake pad without taking the motor off. I use a kids pencil box to keep the rain off them.

I've got the original kit that came with the bike that is reasonable quality, and I added an 18 mm wrench for the rear axle and a little box ended wrench to get more torque on the allen wrenchs.

You have to be careful using the little box ended wrench as an extender.
The box end can spin around, and you end up stabbing the end of the allen wrench into your palm.
I keep crazy glue in my tool kit to seal up the wounds. lol

 

[PCeBiker]

This works too, but it comes with the same warning,..

 

[Nvreloader]

PC
I checked my bike and both of sides are the same as the side you show in the photo,
there is a quick release handle for the axel, it appears that I can loose up all 4 bolts for both sides and slide this whole section forward, after I take some measurements to make sure I get it back into the same position, when finished.

When I posted the first measurements, post #67, that was with just the derailleur attached, but no pressure on the chain, I took the chain off the 44T front drive to release the chain pressure, I just moved the chain onto each back gear and the 44T front gear, and counted the links needed etc.

There was a fair amount of slop due to getting the thick/thin section of the chain to fit the 44t front gear. On the 15T back gear, the 116 links fit perfectly and had about an inch of movement (Up/Down directions), about the normal amount of slack needed.

(Info from the 67 post,)
When using the 15T rear cassette gear to the 44T main drive gear,
I need 116 links of chain,
Going up to the 20T gear, I need 118-119 links of chain,
Stepping up to the 26T gear, I need 121-122 links,
At the largest 34T gear, I need 125-126 links.

The difference between the 34T to 15T gear is about 10 links,
or about 5"- 7" of chain length.
This is with the approximately 3/4" of slack in the adjustment bolts area.

I'll check everything out in the AM, when I can see, shop is dark after sundown,
and COLD, right now.

Thanks Guys,
Don