Newbie looking for advice

huckleberry

New Member
Region
USA
Hi all,

I'm seriously considering purchasing an ebike as a car replacement for my daily commute to the city. I've dabbled in mountain biking some years prior, but have never really been an avid "cyclist" and would really appreciate some advice on which brands and specific models to consider.

Some context: I live in the PNW and will have to ride through hills typical of the region -- climbing around 600-700 feet of elevation on the way there and 300 on the way back, on hills ranging from 10-20% grade (EDIT: estimate, think San Francisco-level hills), for total distances of 25-35 miles (accounting for extra grocery runs, errands, etc.) There's a brief compacted dirt path on the way to work, but I don't plan to be doing any serious offroading and would only need suspension to blunt the impact of potholes. I'm decently fit and healthy; measure in at just under 5 feet and around 100 pounds; and am technically capable of making it into the city without any electrical assistance. The ride back up the hills is brutal, though, and by the time I get home my crotch and calf muscles feel like they've taken an assault from a jackhammer.

I'm looking for a fast, powerful ebike that can let me glide up hills without running myself ragged; can handle relatively long distances on a single charge; and runs at, around, or slightly above $2k. I don't want something that looks or feels like a motorcycle; I enjoy pedaling and would like something bike-adjacent, just with sufficient juice to take the load off my legs. I also need to be able to physically fit on the frame—anything designed for people 5'5'' and above and my legs will be dangling off the sides like a toddler's.

I conducted cursory research into the best electric bikes for extended distances and steep hills before I came to this forum, and everyone seems to be recommending a mid drive motor, cautioning away from using wattage as a reliable metric to determine motor power, and advising against buying from an online vendor without the possibility of reliable service and maintenence from a LBS. I have a LBS that specializes in Specialized (lol) but from my understanding they're the creme-de-la-creme of the market and cater more towards avid cyclists and hobby enthusiasts. They also cost a pretty penny—I simply don't think I need to purchase a bike exclusively outfitted with high-end premium components to adequately meet my needs.

Thus far, I've tried out the Aventon level 2 and pace 500.3, a Gazelle medeo t9, a Velotric T1ST, and an Electra valego! The Aventon level2 zoomed up the couple hills I tried it on, but feels very much like a motorized vehicle and less like a bike. I'm also deeply concerned about the dozens of 1-star reviews on Trustpilot regarding Aventon repeatedly failing to honor warranties or replace broken components, and I'm slightly wary of attempting a round-peg-square-hole approach by attempting to use a hub drive motor for hill climbing. Even on my relatively brief test runs the battery drained alarmingly quickly. I absolutely despised the cruiser-style handlebars on the pace 500.3; I'm far more accustomed to the aggressive positioning on a mountain bike and feel off-balance and unsteady when pulled away from my center of gravity into an upright posture. I enjoyed the middrive motor on the Gazelle, but found it to be underpowered and slightly unwieldy—ironically, the pace seemed to pack more of a punch when accelerating. The Velotric T1ST barely registered as an electric bike to me, even at the maximum level of assist and at the lowest possible gear. The Electra valego! had many of the same issues as the Gazelle—large, unwieldy, and underpowered, with those repulsive cruiser-style handlebars.

Anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for specific brands or models I should look into? I'm open to buying something used or secondhand to cut costs if need be, but I'm genuinely completely overwhelmed by the number of considerations I need to take into account and would really appreciate some expert advice. Thank you!
 
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The ride back up the hills is brutal, though, and by the time I get home my crotch and calf muscles feel like they've taken an assault from a jackhammer.
> Calf/Achilles/Shin Pain
> This comes commonly from a saddle position that is too high and likely too far back.
> This position sees the calf being constantly flexed both in the down and upstroke, overusing the calf muscle.
> This pulls on the tendons and attachments around the calf, causing the pain.

The Aventon level2 zoomed up the couple hills I tried it on, but feels very much like a motorized vehicle and less like a bike.
Matches my experience with Aventon.

One general bit of advice is that if you plan to transition more and more to human power, make sure the bike is geared to make that work, and rides comfortably without assist. A lot of commuter style ebikes are geared for speed and rely on assist at the low end.
 
I'm thinking, if you just want "sufficient juice to take the load off" the legs, then don't necessarily be put off by an ebike that feels "underpowered." On a mid drive motor the more torque you produce, the more the motor will help out, so with the Gazelle (for example) I think the only way to really know how it will do on hills is to ride some hills. It might turn out to be acceptable.... and then again, it might not... but if there's any way to rent or borrow or trial one and ride a couple of your usual hills on your route, that would be best.

As many miles as you will put on your ebike, a LBS (or local individual?) that will work on it is probably a huge, huge consideration. Either that, or develop some skills in that area so you can DIY.

Honestly, in your situation (5' and with preferences born of experience) my first thought would be to find someone who will take a bike you know you'll love and convert it for you. That way you could have a light weight frame in the configuration you like best, and decide what components will be added to it. For the distance I'd suggest two batteries unless you can recharge at both ends of the commute. Those are my (not terribly experienced, but terribly opinionated! :D ) thoughts.
 
and I'm slightly wary of attempting a round-peg-square-hole approach by attempting to use a hub drive motor for hill climbing.
I use a 1000 w 48 v geared hub motor for climbing 77 hills in 30 miles on my way to summer camp. Rollers. Geared hub motors will not climb 1000' in an hour, they will overheat & burn the winding. Sounds as if your route is well under that. I have a 840 wh battery and get the red light up the 74th hill. That is with 60 lb groceries, 15 lb tools tire tubes rain gear water. Hub drives can wear out the gears in ~5000 miles, but they only cost $300 or less and a built wheel can be changed in an afternoon. Chain that lasts 5000 miles is a plus of hub drive. My chain is 8 speed, which is wider than 9-10-11-12 speed chain.
If you are going to shop for groceries, a stretch frame cargo bike is more stable. Your weight on the front, the cargo on the back tire. Putting the groceries in a front basket is the other solution, but you have to steer the weight, which I did not like when I was trying to use a MTB. In the rear on a MTB, you will end up with 120 lb rear 20 lb front without you on the bike. This makes the front wheel snap sideways on bumps and obstructions.
Popular in your area, yubabikes kombi with a shimano mid-drive. A cost cutter hub drive that has few problems reported is the blix genie availble with dual battery. Note battery range is cut by 1/2 below 50 deg F, in my experience. .
 
One general bit of advice is that if you plan to transition more and more to human power, make sure the bike is geared to make that work, and rides comfortably without assist. A lot of commuter style ebikes are geared for speed and rely on assist at the low end.
Agree with every word of that. Once I lowered the gearing on my 500W hub-drive (now 10 speeds, 26-100 gear-inches), it's been fine on our steep hills. But I don't mind working up a sweat and going as slow as it takes.

For me, the main thing is to keep cadence well above 60 RPM, and the ebike gives enough assist to make that happen.
 
I made three bikes similar to what you are looking for. They are mid-step commuters with 2.35 tires so they do not need a suspension and can ride anywhere except the most extreme off road conditions. This one has a comfortable riding position with an 85Nm mid-drive. The starter bikes were about $600 before accessories and conversion. They are Marin Stinson 2's. The one in photo got a rack and panniers for shopping and commuting. They come with an 11-47 cassette of gears, which is a very wide range. The Medium fits just about everyone. This one is the XL; I also built a Small. That ridder went to a high-end bike store and spent $3500 on a bike that could not take hills. I got her money back and we went across the street to the Marin dealer, picked up her Stinson 2, then I did the conversion. She loves it.
 

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I made three bikes similar to what you are looking for. They are mid-step commuters with 2.35 tires so they do not need a suspension and can ride anywhere except the most extreme off road conditions. This one has a comfortable riding position with an 85Nm mid-drive. The starter bikes were about $600 before accessories and conversion. They are Marin Stinson 2's. The one in photo got a rack and panniers for shopping and commuting. They come with an 11-47 cassette of gears, which is a very wide range. The Medium fits just about everyone. This one is the XL; I also built a Small. That ridder went to a high-end bike store and spent $3500 on a bike that could not take hills. I got her money back and we went across the street to the Marin dealer, picked up her Stinson 2, then I did the conversion. She loves it.
That does look like an appealing option—how much do you charge for your converted bikes?

Also general update: I test-rode a Rove e+ and loved it, aside from the lack of a rack or kickstand and the 20mph motor cutoff. Thus far it's the best in-store option I've tried.
 
@huckleberry, The woman who purchased that sized small bike was sold a Rove e+ with a five-year maintenance plan. She was told that it could take hills. It could not take the hill where she lives over looking the sea in Marin County, California. She had to walk the bike a mile. She already had one of my converted bikes and knew what it can do, but wanted a more comfortable bike that can do more than smooth tarmac. If you are local and read reviews on Google Maps we can discuss the details of your needs. Look for PedalUma eBikes, about 45 miles north of the Golden Gate. She saved a ton, got a more capable bike, and one that is not proprietary, so that in five-years if she needs a new battery, any same voltage battery from any source will work. And if in ten-years she needs a new motor, any universal fit motor will work as technology improves. Every part is interoperable, non-proprietary, and open source. Her bike is more like Wiki, Linux, or Firefox, than Apple. Two local places are qualified to work on the motors, and turnaround time is same or next day. With most local bike shops they need to send motors to a service center and that can take twelve weeks.
 
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