What is a fair way to compare an Ebike to a conventional bike? An eBike for an Amateur Cyclist.

[BikeMike]

I decided to buy a 2019 Trek Powerfly 5. The bike should arrive in about a week, which gives me enough time to plan some test runs.

Bikes are all about tradeoffs. You gain something from one feature, but lose in another respect. I own an expensive conventional carbon road bike and a very expensive carbon mountain bike. I like both bikes equally, for what they are.

I ran a 25 minute five mile in high school. I have the skill and leg power to push a bike pretty hard.

I expect the bike will perform well on the uphill sections. I expect to lose an equal amount on the downhill parts. I think the bike will be OK, in an overall respect. So, how do you judge an eBike fairly?

I will incrementally expand this topic, as time permits. I would love to get your opinion, to guard against disappointment.

 

[ebikemom]

I would compare it based on the overall riding experience, as well as the functionality of the bike for various parts of one's life (recreational riding, errands, commuting, shopping, etc.).

 

[BikeMike]

I would compare it based on the overall riding experience.

So, I should feel about the same after riding the same route? That would be an unfair comparison for my two bikes.

 

[ebikemom]

On an ebike, you should feel better!!! But I'd consider the other metrics, also. Since it sounds like you are into data, why not keep some? You could note your ride destination, length, purpose, mode of transport, and evaluation, etc.

 

[Countrygent]

Climb the steepest hill close to home on both. Cycle into a strong headwind on both. Get miles away from home and then feel your energy ebbing on both. For my wife and I we rented ebikes in Copenhagen and within about two minutes, after we had tried the levels of power assist for a few blocks, and seen the range estimate on the readout vary between about 50 miles and 20 miles depending on pedal effort ... we had an immediate "AH HA!" moment. If you are a 25 year-old sporty type, fit, who road bikes or mountain bikes for fun and exercise, it might not be so attractive. For anybody who feels somewhat intimidated from going cycling for fear of fatigue, hills, limited range, keeping up with more fit friends ... the benefits are obvious very quickly? We are relatively fit but we are older now. If you are young and fit the bikes are heavy so the bottom quartile or so of power is probably a wash vs. weight. But range and hill-climbing will definitely be fun, unless you are a through-and-through pain lover?

Have a look at this:

 

[BikeMike]

On an ebike, you should feel better!!!

I like the thrill of going fast. That is a sure way to reject the eBike, because it is class 1, or 20mph. Will never happen. I hit 35mph every day.

That is also a sure way to reject my mountain bike. Flat handle bars are inefficient over 25mph. Drop bars have the clear advantage.

 

[BikeMike]

Climb the steepest hill close to home on both. Cycle into a strong headwind on both. Get miles away from home and then feel your energy ebbing on both. For my wife and I we rented ebikes in Copenhagen and within about two minutes, after we had tried the levels of power assist for a few blocks, and seen the range estimate on the readout vary between about 50 miles and 20 miles depending on pedal effort ... we had an immediate "AH HA!" moment. If you are a 25 year-old sporty type, fit, who road bikes or mountain bikes for fun and exercise, it might not be so attractive. For anybody who feels somewhat intimidated from going cycling for fear of fatigue, hills, limited range, keeping up with more fit friends ... the benefits are obvious very quickly? We are relatively fit but we are older now. If you are young and fit the bikes are heavy so the bottom quartile or so of power is probably a wash vs. weight. But range and hill-climbing will definitely be fun, unless you are a through-and-through pain lover?

Honestly, i am 60 years old. I can easily pass by men much younger than me. I get equally burnt by riders half my age. I think age is a poor way to descriminate. I am conditioned extremely well for my area, because i ride at least every other day, all year.

 

[BikeMike]

Climb the steepest hill close to home on both. Cycle into a strong headwind on both. Get miles away from home and then feel your energy ebbing on both. For my wife and I we rented ebikes in Copenhagen and within about two minutes, after we had tried the levels of power assist for a few blocks, and seen the range estimate on the readout vary between about 50 miles and 20 miles depending on pedal effort ... we had an immediate "AH HA!" moment. If you are a 25 year-old sporty type, fit, who road bikes or mountain bikes for fun and exercise, it might not be so attractive. For anybody who feels somewhat intimidated from going cycling for fear of fatigue, hills, limited range, keeping up with more fit friends ... the benefits are obvious very quickly? We are relatively fit but we are older now. If you are young and fit the bikes are heavy so the bottom quartile or so of power is probably a wash vs. weight. But range and hill-climbing will definitely be fun, unless you are a through-and-through pain lover?

Have a look at this:

I have already watched it. I love GCN. That video is not specific enough.

I think if you mean that if the eBike allows me to climb a route that i cannot do on one of my other bikes, then that is conclusive proof?

The Powerfly 5 is a hardtail, which is halfway between both bikes. My Yeti is full suspension. My Specialized Diverge is the other extreme.

 

[BikeMike]

On an ebike, you should feel better!!! But I'd consider the other metrics, also. Since it sounds like you are into data, why not keep some? You could note your ride destination, length, purpose, mode of transport, and evaluation, etc.

That would keep the comparison fair. I hate to be that tedious about riding, because riding is my escape from tedium. It would also be quantative, not qualitative, as you recommend.

If you want to go down the quantative route, i would break the routes by 2.5% grade increments. I have easy access to 2.5, 5.0, 7.5 and 10% grades within a few miles of my place. Some steeper, but I don't think it adds much. A 10% grade means 10x the force. The maximum reasonable grade is 20%. Trains are limited to 12% grades.

One thing I cannot do with my carbon bike is install a rack. So, a big advantage of the Powerfly is getting food from Walmart, 1.5 miles on a continuous 2% grade. My requirement for keeping the bike is that i can pedal the bike uphill without power. I want to judge it from the worst case; the batteries are dead. I get there in under five minutes on my other bikes. I will not compare it on time, only if i can pedal there, or not.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

BikeMike,

I really can't figure out what you are asking for here. My personal guess is that you will figure this all out after riding your Powerfly 5 for fifteen minutes or so much more clearly than anyone here could articulate to you.

Having said that, my own personal experience has been that for a mid-drive e-bike like the Powerfly, you will have a strong advantage over a road bike on the uphills. The downhills might surprise you, since the rolling resistance of a mid-drive is modest and the additional weight of the e-bike does a lot to overcome that higher rolling resistance.

Where an e-bike really bites compared to a decent road bike is on gentler terrain. A modestly strong cyclist can easily pedal a decent road bike quite a bit faster than the 20mph cutoff that is typical of e-bikes in the States (in Europe where a 25kph cutoff is the standard the e-bike disadvantage is even more dramatic). Also the higher rolling resistance of an e-bike is really much more noticeable on a very gentle downhill.

That GCN video really describes a situation where an e-bike has all of the advantages very few of their disadvantages would be apparent in such hilly terrain.

Also, nearly all mid-drive e-bikes have relatively long chain stays. That is great in one sense since it makes the bike more stable and you can really cruise on those downhills like you were on rails. The downside is if you need to be nimble the bike will feel a little ponderous. Since for the most part it is a mechanical limitation that forces e-bikes to have longer chain stays (otherwise when you are slowly cranking up a steep hill the torque of the rear wheel will force the front wheel off the ground) it is kind of an intrinsic limitation of e-bikes.

 

[BikeMike]

BikeMike,

I really can't figure out what you are asking for here. My personal guess is that you will figure this all out after riding your Powerfly 5 for fifteen minutes or so much more clearly than anyone here could articulate to you.

Having said that, my own personal experience has been that for a mid-drive e-bike like the Powerfly, you will have a strong advantage over a road bike on the uphills. The downhills might surprise you, since the rolling resistance of a mid-drive is modest and the additional weight of the e-bike does a lot to overcome that higher rolling resistance.

Where an e-bike really bites compared to a decent road bike is on gentler terrain. A modestly strong cyclist can easily pedal a decent road bike quite a bit faster than the 20mph cutoff that is typical of e-bikes in the States (in Europe where a 25kph cutoff is the standard the e-bike disadvantage is even more dramatic). Also the higher rolling resistance of an e-bike is really much more noticeable on a very gentle downhill.

That GCN video really describes a situation where an e-bike has all of the advantages very few of their disadvantages would be apparent in such hilly terrain.

Also, nearly all mid-drive e-bikes have relatively long chain stays. That is great in one sense since it makes the bike more stable and you can really cruise on those downhills like you were on rails. The downside is if you need to be nimble the bike will feel a little ponderous. Since for the most part it is a mechanical limitation that forces e-bikes to have longer chain stays (otherwise when you are slowly cranking up a steep hill the torque of the rear wheel will force the front wheel off the ground) it is kind of an intrinsic limitation of e-bikes.

That is enlightening. I can be quite specific. As you mention, it will not take more than 15 minutes to pass judgment. I can usually tell within a few minutes.

The real point i am trying to make is: I do not not want to judge too rashly or harshly. Bikes are all about tradeoffs. How should i compare tradeoffs?

To repsond to your point about nimbleness, that is what i love about my road bike. Judging my mountain bike by that standard is unfair. Likewise, my roadbike lacks the traction of my mountain bike's full suspension. I love both bikes, but i do not know how to compare them fairly. I do not try to compare them. I take each for what it is good for. In this respect, nimbless vs. traction is a fair comparison.

 

[CodyDog]

I also am not quite sure what you are asking as well. I think most ebike owners place very little importance on the difference between an ebike and a traditional bike. Based on a few things you have said, perhaps an ebike is not for you. It also sound like you may have buyer remorse or anticipate disappointment.

Putting a motor on a bike simply makes things easier such as cruising, climbing, exercising or riding long distances. For a lot of us, we probably wouldn't be riding or riding as much if our bike didn't have motor assist.

Every time my wife and I get on our ebikes, we smile like a kid. I hope you enjoy your new bike. Let us know what you think when you take a few rides

 

[Nova Haibike]

Bikes are all about tradeoffs...I would love to get your opinion, to guard against disappointment.

If you know bikes are all about tradeoffs, why do you need to guard against disappointment? I think it would really only be a disappointment if you really and truly bought "the wrong bike," as in selecting a carbon road bike to tow a trailer, or a beach cruiser to carve winding roads. Otherwise, you're overthinking it. Just enjoy the ride.

 

[BikeMike]

I also am not quite sure what you are asking as well. I think most ebike owners place very little importance on the difference between an ebike and a traditional bike. Based on a few things you have said, perhaps an ebike is not for you. It also sound like you may have buyer remorse or anticipate disappointment.

Putting a motor on a bike simply makes things easier such as cruising, climbing, exercising or riding long distances. For a lot of us, we probably wouldn't be riding or riding as much if our bike didn't have motor assist.

Every time my wife and I get on our ebikes, we smile like a kid. I hope you enjoy your new bike. Let us know what you think when you take a few rides

Yes, i wonder if an ebike is right for me. An ebike is wrong for me in summer. But, an eBike will greatly ease the 15-25 winter winds. An ebike will shine on some bike paths, but fall short on others.

I think i have been very direct and clear in asking which trails to compare against. I think the trails where my average speed is already 20mph or higher are poor comparisons. So, i should probably only compare on bike paths where my average speed is below 12mph?

 

[rich c]

I decided to buy a 2019 Trek Powerfly 5. The bike should arrive in about a week, which gives me enough time to plan some test runs.

Bikes are all about tradeoffs. You gain something from one feature, but lose in another respect. I own an expensive conventional carbon road bike and a very expensive carbon mountain bike. I like both bikes equally, for what they are.

I ran a 25 minute five mile in high school. I have the skill and leg power to push a bike pretty hard.

I expect the bike will perform well on the uphill sections. I expect to lose an equal amount on the downhill parts. I think the bike will be OK, in an overall respect. So, how do you judge an eBike fairly?

I will incrementally expand this topic, as time permits. I would love to get your opinion, to guard against disappointment.

Curious why you bought it when you need help to guard against disappointment. Didn't you test ride it? Can't say I've ever spent that kind of money and not sure if I would like it.

 

[BikeMike]

If you know bikes are all about tradeoffs, why do you need to guard against disappointment? I think it would really only be a disappointment if you really and truly bought "the wrong bike," as in selecting a carbon road bike to tow a trailer, or a beach cruiser to carve winding roads. Otherwise, you're overthinking it. Just enjoy the ride.

Because my inclination is to take the path i know best. The bike path to my mother's place is most familiar. I would be disappointed by the downhill performance. I always exceed 30mph; 35mph is normal in many stretches. That is what i love about that route.

I know the return leg will be greatly eased. I am not looking to gain comfort from a bicycle. I want fitness.

 

[BikeMike]

Curious why you bought it when you need help to guard against disappointment. Didn't you test ride it? Can't say I've ever spent that kind of money and not sure if I would like it.

No test rides possible. The bike is special order. The policy of my bike shop is to pay in full. They offer a "no-bull" full 30 day refund.

I think the bike will provide utility. I do not know that i can emotionaly relate to utility. Electricity is fine. I have no feelings about electricity.

I do love my conventional bikes.

 

[Nova Haibike]

I would be disappointed by the downhill performance. I always exceed 30mph; 35mph is normal in many stretches.

Nothing will stop you from pedaling a class 1 e-bike past 20, 30, or even 35 mph. I did this even before I installed a dongle to remove the restriction on my own bike. The bike will go as fast as you want it to; the only limitation is your own physical condition.

 

[BikeMike]

Nothing will stop you from pedaling a class 1 e-bike past 20, 30, or even 35 mph. I did this even before I installed a dongle to remove the restriction on my own bike. The bike will go as fast as you want it to; the only limitation is your own physical condition.

Now we getting somewhere. If it is too slow, install a dongle. OK. I'm with you on that.

 

[ebubar]

If you want a true quantitative comparison, go buy some power meter pedals (or an aerodynamic-based power meter like the $300 powerpod), use them on all your bikes and ride them all with the same wattage output from your pedal stroke. This keeps them all on a level playing field. Watts are watts as several on here have said multiple times and you presumably need to use the same consistent level of fitness to generate those watts across all your bikes (sure there will be minor variations, but I suspect wattage is about the closest quantitative tool you have to keep consistent as a control). The question then is what kind of resultant output you'll use for assessing the differences in your comparison. Do you use distance? Speed? Exhaustion over a given distance? KOMs stolen (just kidding on that one...don't be THAT guy)?