Warning: this thread contains throttle related content

sheanew

sheanew

New Member
Hello, and thanks in advance for your help!

Summary:
-I'm 5'4" and female
-buying an e-bike to enjoy 25+ mile road rides with my husband- who is extremely fast and incredibly athletic
-budget $3000usd max, but would prefer $2700 range
-no strong preference on frame type- just need it to fit me.

eBikes I've Ridden:
-My Aunt's izip E3 Zuma- (class 2 w/ throttle and cadence assist)
-izip TRLZ (class 1 w/ torque pedal assist)
-TREK Verve 2 (class 1 w/ torque pedal assist) Only rode about 5 minutes

Torque vs Cadence Experience:
I have ridden my aunt's class 2 bike over 100 miles. I don't often use the throttle, but it has really saved the day when taking off uphill at a quick and busy traffic light and outrunning an intimidating loose dog. I tested the izip trlz on a 3-mile ride. I somehow used half of the battery life on it. I wonder if I am too weak and/or petite to optimize torque pedal-assist systems?
I felt like I had to stomp on the pedals to get the assist to engage, then once up to speed, I would continue to pedal to maintain speed and assist would diminish. However the bike would slow, my legs would fatigue and I would have to summon additional strength to stomp down again to get the assist to meaningfully engage. Based on the experience- between torque assist and my the Zuma's cadence assist, I was longing for the steady cadence assist on that 3 mile ride. I find the cadence assist really helps me lock in neatly behind the Husband who is rather steady on his speed. I know cadence assist is not a popular option though, and maybe I've just had an outlier experience? Part of me fears not having the option of a throttle in bad situations, but I know that basing my bike search on class 2 with cadence assist and throttle gives me super limited options, thus the shortlist below.

Shortlist:
-Trek Verve 3
-Trek Verve 2
-Specialized Como 2

Questions:
1. Feedback/thoughts on my cadence vs torque pedal-assist experience outlined above?
2. Thoughts on my shortlist?
3. Is there another bike I should consider? Why?
**And now for the taboo throttle question**
4. How can I determine if adding a throttle is an option to any of the bikes on my shortlist? Is there a general rule that determines compatibility?

Thank You for the help- everyone stay safe.
 
sheanew said:
Hello, and thanks in advance for your help!

Summary:
-I'm 5'4" and female
-buying an e-bike to enjoy 25+ mile road rides with my husband- who is extremely fast and incredibly athletic
-budget $3000usd max, but would prefer $2700 range
-no strong preference on frame type- just need it to fit me.

eBikes I've Ridden:
-My Aunt's izip E3 Zuma- (class 2 w/ throttle and cadence assist)
-izip TRLZ (class 1 w/ torque pedal assist)
-TREK Verve 2 (class 1 w/ torque pedal assist) Only rode about 5 minutes

Torque vs Cadence Experience:
I have ridden my aunt's class 2 bike over 100 miles. I don't often use the throttle, but it has really saved the day when taking off uphill at a quick and busy traffic light and outrunning an intimidating loose dog. I tested the izip trlz on a 3-mile ride. I somehow used half of the battery life on it. I wonder if I am too weak and/or petite to optimize torque pedal-assist systems?
I felt like I had to stomp on the pedals to get the assist to engage, then once up to speed, I would continue to pedal to maintain speed and assist would diminish. However the bike would slow, my legs would fatigue and I would have to summon additional strength to stomp down again to get the assist to meaningfully engage. Based on the experience- between torque assist and my the Zuma's cadence assist, I was longing for the steady cadence assist on that 3 mile ride. I find the cadence assist really helps me lock in neatly behind the Husband who is rather steady on his speed. I know cadence assist is not a popular option though, and maybe I've just had an outlier experience? Part of me fears not having the option of a throttle in bad situations, but I know that basing my bike search on class 2 with cadence assist and throttle gives me super limited options, thus the shortlist below.

Shortlist:
-Trek Verve 3
-Trek Verve 2
-Specialized Como 2

Questions:
1. Feedback/thoughts on my cadence vs torque pedal-assist experience outlined above?
2. Thoughts on my shortlist?
3. Is there another bike I should consider? Why?
**And now for the taboo throttle question**
4. How can I determine if adding a throttle is an option to any of the bikes on my shortlist? Is there a general rule that determines compatibility?

Thank You for the help- everyone stay safe.
Click to expand...

I might be bias but I would suggest a Gepida Fastida but it might be to large for you.
 
Not sure the Trek Verve 2 you've ridden with 295w peak power and 40nm peak torque is a good litmus test for a capable torque sensing mid drive. Similarly, the IZIP TRLZ you rode with 400w peak powe is fairly weak for a rear hub which will be more sluggish from a dead stop due to motor weight in the wheel, granted it has a fairly respectable 60nm of torque. The Brose S motor on the Como is probably the smoothest and most refined torque sensing mid drive out there and doesn't slouch on power with 530w peak power and 90nm torque, roughly double the Trek Verve 2. Test ride the Como if you can and if it doesn't cut it for you then you probably have your answer that cadence sensing is more your style (and you'll probably have throttle as an option to outrun those dogs).
 
I've never ridden a Brose S motor, but my Bosch Performance Line 250W motor with 60nm of torque is very smooth. As you may already know, torque sensing boost is dependent on the amount of force you apply to it. I've never experienced your issue of having to stomp on the pedals to get the assist I needed. I've never ridden my bike standing up as I never needed to. I usually ride on eco mode and that's plenty of power to keep me going at 15-20mph. I don't think I've ever used the highest setting, as even in touring level (next up from eco) would be too much power for me to keep the cadence up to really make use of it since the power cuts off at 20mph.

My guess is that the bikes you've tried with torque sensors are poor examples and not reflective of what you can potentially experience with good implementations.

From your list of ebikes you've ridden:
-izip E3 Zuma- (class 2 w/ throttle and cadence assist) - uses TranzX M16 GTA motor which I've never heard of so I can't speak to it
-izip TRLZ (class 1 w/ torque pedal assist) - is a rear hub motor
-TREK Verve 2 (class 1 w/ torque pedal assist) Only rode about 5 minutes - has Bosch Active Line motor which is the lowest powered motor Bosch offers with 40nm of torque.

None of which are really good indicators.

There's a listing on bicycle blue book for a 2018 Haibike SDURO Trekking 6.0 Low Step (size: S) for $1804 (Around $3000 new) with 1 mi on odometer and comes with a Yamaha PW-SE 250w motor that offers 70nm of torque. I've heard only good things about the Yamaha PW series. It's a good deal if you're willing to forgo the warranty and take a bit of a risk, but the bike seems like it's new.
www.bicyclebluebook.com

2018 Haibike SDURO Trekking Histep 6.0 Low Step

Looking for a de listed? Look no further, the BicycleBlueBook.com Marketplace has a used 2018 one available for purchase.
www.bicyclebluebook.com www.bicyclebluebook.com

Specialized Como 2 is also a decent choice for the money and it's brand new with warranty.
 
I have a Yamaha PW which is simialr to the SE. It's a nice torquey motor but I'm not sure it would be a good fit for the OP as the decay is pretty immediate if you stop pedaling or ease up significantly. I test rode a Brose S a while back and it was just so darn smooth and natural.

I bought my bike on Bicycle Blue Book and would recommend them with the caveat that I paid $777 for a bike that was on closeout elsewhere for 2x the cost. I frequently see them offer bikes for close to the price of new (on closeout). Doesn't seem worth it. For example, Haibike was closing out the Trekking for $2500 with warranty. Not sure $2K + $150 shipping from Bicycle Blue Book is compelling enough unless that's the bike you really want. Edit: Lenny's shows a Haibike 2.0 Trekking low step on their crisis prices page for under $2K.

Too bad the OP missed out on the Como 4.0 sale.
 
Last edited:
sheanew said:
Hello, and thanks in advance for your help!

Summary:
-I'm 5'4" and female
-buying an e-bike to enjoy 25+ mile road rides with my husband- who is extremely fast and incredibly athletic
-budget $3000usd max, but would prefer $2700 range
-no strong preference on frame type- just need it to fit me.

eBikes I've Ridden:
-My Aunt's izip E3 Zuma- (class 2 w/ throttle and cadence assist)
-izip TRLZ (class 1 w/ torque pedal assist)
-TREK Verve 2 (class 1 w/ torque pedal assist) Only rode about 5 minutes

Torque vs Cadence Experience:
I have ridden my aunt's class 2 bike over 100 miles. I don't often use the throttle, but it has really saved the day when taking off uphill at a quick and busy traffic light and outrunning an intimidating loose dog. I tested the izip trlz on a 3-mile ride. I somehow used half of the battery life on it. I wonder if I am too weak and/or petite to optimize torque pedal-assist systems?
I felt like I had to stomp on the pedals to get the assist to engage, then once up to speed, I would continue to pedal to maintain speed and assist would diminish. However the bike would slow, my legs would fatigue and I would have to summon additional strength to stomp down again to get the assist to meaningfully engage. Based on the experience- between torque assist and my the Zuma's cadence assist, I was longing for the steady cadence assist on that 3 mile ride. I find the cadence assist really helps me lock in neatly behind the Husband who is rather steady on his speed. I know cadence assist is not a popular option though, and maybe I've just had an outlier experience? Part of me fears not having the option of a throttle in bad situations, but I know that basing my bike search on class 2 with cadence assist and throttle gives me super limited options, thus the shortlist below.

Shortlist:
-Trek Verve 3
-Trek Verve 2
-Specialized Como 2

Questions:
1. Feedback/thoughts on my cadence vs torque pedal-assist experience outlined above?
2. Thoughts on my shortlist?
3. Is there another bike I should consider? Why?
**And now for the taboo throttle question**
4. How can I determine if adding a throttle is an option to any of the bikes on my shortlist? Is there a general rule that determines compatibility?

Thank You for the help- everyone stay safe.
Click to expand...
I've ridden only 1 ebike, my own, and it uses cadence and has throttle. I would be very hesitant to buy a bike without a throttle - that's because I do only city riding and oftentimes I want to scoot - for example when turning left after waiting for a red light. Cars behind and oncoming traffic either waiting or moving. That's where I want throttle plus pedalling or I'd have to be in quite low gear with highest level cadence assist. Maybe some bikes with torque sensor have that kind of extended pickup, dunno. But I want that pickup without any messing around and then I can add pedalling on top helping it.

P.S. I'd like to have cruise control as well.
 
In terms of other bikes to consider it really depends. Is direct to consumer an opton for you or do you want to test ride before you buy? In your price range you could get a lot of bike, but realistically if you just want a powerful rear hub with throttle there are lots of decent options well under your budget. Don't expect to be riding single track with a rear hub but for tooling around town they will be just fine and quite powerful. Aventon has dealers in many locations where you can arrange for test ride. This model is fairly nice with integrated battery and 3 frame sizes, assuming you aren't looking for a step thru:

www.aventon.com

Aventon Level.2 Commuter Ebike | Free Shipping With Ebike Purchase

Experience reinvented joyriding as you cruise the city with Aventon's Level.2 commuter ebike. ✅ Over 1,800 authorized service dealers & test rides ✅ 2-year warranty ✅ Fast & free shipping ✅ Say yes to adventure.
www.aventon.com www.aventon.com

This might be a more comfortable ride with step thru frame and swept back handlebars but is direct to consumer:

ride1up.com

700 Series - Ride1UP | Best Electric Bike 2021

Ultimate electric bike experience. Rack & Fenders included. Hydraulic brakes, 15ah Samsung battery, Super Moto X tires, a fully integrated frame, and speeds of 15mph
ride1up.com ride1up.com
 
Last edited:
I have this bike but it's a 2019 model so it has cadence https://rizebikes.com/products/city?variant=31497309978755

I love the handlebars adjustability so I can pull them up and back to take pressure of the hands and sit back. The fenders are the best I've ever had, they never rattle. I have 1700 miles in 6 months and the only problem I've had is the brakes leak fluid very slowly at the levers because they got hit..once in shipping and once when I dropped the bike. So I'd say it's been perfect. I could have had the shipper to pay for the hit to the one brake lever ( punctured box) but I didn't notice the slight leak at first. So the fault is not the bike's or the seller's fault.
I got the small frame so I could put feet flat on the ground.
That's something you might need to put as a high priority whichever bike you choose...not too tall for you.
I also had to loosen the front wheel nuts as they were overtightened. It glides very nicely even though daily it goes over very rough pavement. I love the bike. One thing I would recommend is to make the display easily removable so nobody could turn it on when it's locked up or at least programmable to... have it secure locked.
It almost as though they read my wishes when they made the 2020 model

LCD Secure Lock
Worried about someone tampering with your bike? Our latest software comes with a secure lock feature that enables you to set an access code on the LCD screen. When this feature is enabled it will prevent all access to the LCD controls. The bike can only be turned on with the user’s access code.

Cruise control
Trying to enjoy a long ride without having to keep hold of the throttle? This feature enables you to set the cruise of the bike to the desired speed while the throttle is released. Any application of the throttle or brake will exit cruise mode.
 
Last edited:
sheanew said:
I felt like I had to stomp on the pedals to get the assist to engage, then once up to speed, I would continue to pedal to maintain speed and assist would diminish. However the bike would slow, my legs would fatigue and I would have to summon additional strength to stomp down again to get the assist to meaningfully engage. Based on the experience- between torque assist and my the Zuma's cadence assist, I was longing for the steady cadence assist on that 3 mile ride. I find the cadence assist really helps me lock in neatly behind the Husband who is rather steady on his speed. I know cadence assist is not a popular option though, and maybe I've just had an outlier experience?
Click to expand...

Your husband, probably a strong rider, would prefer torque sensing because it feels natural to him to have to work. If you like cadence, that's fine. I like it too. My wife and I don't ride very fast, and in assist level 1, that's enough to take the edge off pedaling.

I got a chuckle when Lenny, the real owner of Crazy Lenny's Ebikes posted here that the majority of his customers like the hub drive bikes with cadence/throttle. I guess that the bliss of the European mid drives with their torque sensing system is lost on casual riders in the USA. It's like stick shifts. Popular in Europe. Americans can't be bothered with it.
 
harryS said:
I got a chuckle when Lenny, the real owner of Crazy Lenny's Ebikes posted here that the majority of his customers like the hub drive bikes with cadence/throttle. I guess that the bliss of the European mid drives with their torque sensing system is lost on casual riders in the USA. It's like stick shifts. Popular in Europe. Americans can't be bothered with it.
Click to expand...
Not sure that Americans can't be bothered with it. There just isn't enough people that know how to drive a manual. These days, the best theft deterrent for automobiles are manual transmission. 😆

I learned to drive on a manual and have had at least one car with manual transmissions most of my life. It's a lot more fun to be more engaged in the driving. But sadly, technology will continue to make driving engagement less and less relevant. 20-30 years from, now I can picture someone making a similar statement.
"It's like automatic transmission. Popular in Europe. Americans can't be bothered with it....since they have autonomous driving" 😉
 
byunbee said:
Not sure that Americans can't be bothered with it. There just isn't enough people that know how to drive a manual. These days, the best theft deterrent for automobiles are manual transmission. 😆

I learned to drive on a manual and have had at least one car with manual transmissions most of my life. It's a lot more fun to be more engaged in the driving. But sadly, technology will continue to make driving engagement less and less relevant. 20-30 years from, now I can picture someone making a similar statement.
"It's like automatic transmission. Popular in Europe. Americans can't be bothered with it....since they have autonomous driving" 😉
Click to expand...
One American here who misses not having a manual transmission. I had one up until just about 5 years ago when I replaced my 2006 Boxster S with a 2013 Boxster S with PDK. Great transmission for sure, but my left foot gets bored. ;)
 
My other baby...and she's a manual. :cool:
1589238260311.png
1589238298596.png
 
Okay, if we're showing our manual shifting sports cars, here's my long sold, but still missed 1990 Mazda Miata, with a Ford Mustang V8 engine and Mustang 5 speed transmission.
That thing was a beast on the track.....until it overheated. :oops:




 
Deacon Blues said:
Okay, if we're showing our manual shifting sports cars, here's my long sold, but still missed 1990 Mazda Miata, with a Ford Mustang V8 engine and Mustang 5 speed transmission.
That thing was a beast on the track.....until it overheated. :oops:




Click to expand...
That's pretty cool- must have been a wild ride!
 
Deacon Blues said:
Okay, if we're showing our manual shifting sports cars, here's my long sold, but still missed 1990 Mazda Miata, with a Ford Mustang V8 engine and Mustang 5 speed transmission.
That thing was a beast on the track.....until it overheated. :oops:




Click to expand...
The engine blew? :eek:
 
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