Cyclist husband that I'm looking to keep up with-- help choosing!

[Herc]

Hey all!
My husband rides a lower-end Specialized Diverge, which is a little unusual for someone who bikes over 20 miles daily and 40-60 a day on weekends. He's fairly slow for a cyclist who rides centuries regularly-- his normal speed is around 14mph. The Diverge is considered a gravel bike. Most of the time he is just riding on rougher roads, but sometimes crushed gravel paths like rails-to-trails, or better-kept dirt roads.
I currently have a Specialized Roll Sport step through-- a fun bike to ride. I ride about once a week, usually with him. These are typically bonus rides for him, because my comfortable ride is 7-10 miles at a speed of around 10mph (this is typically in an urban/suburan area). I have ridden rails to trails with him between 15-30 miles, and I can do that, though it is pushing to my absolute limits.
I am looking for a bike that will let me keep up with him on longer rides-- something that I can get 40-60 miles in with. I want the exercise, I just don't want to be so exhausted at the end that I am useless the next day! Speed is much less important-- around 20mph is probably all I will ever really need, and truly slower is better as I will often be riding in traffic.

I THINK a torque sensor would work better for my needs? Is that correct? I'm used to pedaling and want to expend some energy, I just need the e-assist for when I am tired, or when there are hills and I can't keep up. Do I need a throttle?
Even though I live in an urban area, there isn't a local bike shop to try bikes (there is a Trek store but that's it)-- I am going to have to go at least an hour and a half away, so I want a good idea of what I am looking for, and preferably brands and even models. One of the very small local bike repair guys is familiar with Aventon and Velotric, but I am very much not married to either of these brands.

Terrain-- I will mostly be riding either on rails to trails or on very rough urban and rural roads in need of repair. I need a bike that can handle crushed gravel at least. I don't really want or need a mountain bike-- that's very much not my thing lol. I'd prefer to keep it under 2k, and truly the cheaper the better as I am having a hard time convincing myself it is ok to spend money on this
Oh, I am 5ft 9, about 180 lbs. If I end up liking this, I could pretty easily put 1000 miles on it in a year, but let's say that I plan to put 500-750.
Help me oh wise ones!!! I keep reading and am having a hard time navigating what is important, and what might meet my needs. Is getting an extra battery important? How do I tell a quality build? What do I need to look for in a bike, and what will best suit my needs? I haven't really found someone in my shoes, looking to keep up with someone on a traditional bike.

 

[Dewey]

Hello, you're right a second or dual battery set up may be necessary to go 60 miles. Since you have a Trek shop nearby you could ask to test ride a Trek Allant+ 7 with the optional range boost dual battery. However since you want to keep the price down you may like to check out the Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 for which, if you feel it necessary, you could buy an additional range extender battery from Specialized

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A Specialized Turbo Vado SL and you are all set @Herc! I really recommend the version 5.0 as it has the suspension stem. In case you need extra batteries, the Specialized SL e-bikes take Range Extenders, or extra batteries that are mounted as water-bottles. Currently, there are huge discounts on Specialized e-bikes and Range Extenders in the United States.

Note: The e-bike counterpart of the Diverge is the Specialized Turbo Creo SL Evo. I do not recommend it to you because it is a gravel e-bike with drop bars (and it is fairly expensive). The e-bike counterpart of the bike similar to yours (a Specialized Sirrus) is the Vado SL.

Quality build, great warranty, huge network of dealers. The top technology, a mid-drive motor, several sensors working in unison.

Oh, I am 5ft 9, about 180 lbs. If I end up liking this, I could pretty easily put 1000 miles on it in a year, but let's say that I plan to put 500-750.

I am 5'8", 211 lbs, and I have ridden my Vado SL for 6,300+ miles for last two years and a month. Many gravel and mild off-road trips!
Vado SL 5.0 has a carbon fork, which is good for you as you are a lightweight person, well within Vado SL 5.0 weight limit.

 

[indianajo]

If you want to pedal mostly and use the motor for hills or after you get tired, you want a bike that doesn't drag the motor with your feet. Trek bikes are mostly bosch, and only the most expensive bosch motor has the clutch necessary to ride unpowered drag free. Allant 7 says it is a bosch Performance line CX, which might be that model, but I don't know. Ask the bike shop. What I do know, spare bosch batteries are >$1000 and have sometimes been unavailable for a year. WIthout a throttle you would set the PAS level to zero. If you stop for a meal or bathroom break, having a spare $1200 battery in a bag on the bike is a theft risk.
The specialized turbo vado 4 stepthru has a brose middrive motor, which has a clutch to permit riding without power without drag. It was $2500 when I checked, possibility of end of summer sales the website said. Again extra batteries are not going to be cheap. Again no throttle, you would set the PAS level to zero.
With your low annual usage, geared hub motor bikes don't drag unpowered. The batteries can be much cheaper. Often they are generic dolphin batteries, instead of patented form fitting designs. These can be bought from a 3rd party, like reentron. One $2200 geared hub drive model is the surface 604 sunny day. It comes with torque sensing, plus a throttle. Standard battery at that price is 12 AH, but they offer 20 AH battery as an option. https://electricbikereview.com/surface-604/2023-sunny-day/ I get 30 miles out of 1/2 of a 17.5 AH battery, but I pedal about 2/3 the distance, the flatter parts.
The disadvantage of geared hub motors, the gears can wear out at ~3500 miles. I've ridden it home that way, no drag with the power off. Another disadvantage, you cannot climb steep long grades as they have in the Rockies and Sierras, the winding will burn if you lug it for an hour. I climb 77 rolling hills up to 15% grade here in my county, with 80 lb groceries, no problem with motors over 350 w. The surface are 500w.
The advantage of geared hub, new motors built into a wheel are <$500. I keep a spare in my garage and when I wear out a motor, am back on the road in 2 days without giving my bike a ride in a car to the bike shop. Another advantage of geared hub, they carry the motor higher than a mid-drive so you get an inch or 2 of higher water you can pedal through. Don't cross rivers that high, but I have a couple of underpasses that fill up in the rain that I cross through. Third advantage of geared hub, the chain can last twice as long as the same width chain on a mid-drive bike. Chains are not expensive, but I find them harder to change that the power wheel. I always mess up the chain routing the first & second time. Plus it takes $40 in tools to change a chain.
Happy shopping & later riding.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Welcome aboard! Your strategy for keeping up with hubby with an ebike is a good one.

My best single piece of advice is to test before you buy if at all possible — especially at your stated price point. Ability to get the ebike serviced locally is also key. Many shops won't service ebikes they don't sell.

Given your desire to pedal, the riding you do already, and the longer/faster riding you're likely to do with the right kind of assist, stay away from cadence-sensing bikes. Torque-sensing assist should serve you well, but I gather that some bikes implement it better than others, so test rides are important here. Higher-end bikes have even more sophisticated power-sensing assist, but they may not fit your budget.

For the bumpy riding you describe, a front suspension fork and OEM or aftermarket suspension seat post should suffice. Rear suspension in your price range could mean greater weight and cheaper components everywhere else, so be wary.

If you'll generally be riding at low assist levels, a single larger battery may suffice. I can easily get 80 miles on my single 960 Wh battery that way. Be sure to compare battery capacities on watt-hours (Wh), not amp-hours (Ah), as the latter doesn't take system voltage into account.

I think you'll want hybrid tires with good puncture resistance for your intended riding. Hybrid in this context means reasonable rolling resistance on pavement with decent traction on gravel.

Hybrid tires generally have low center treads with higher side lugs. My bike came with commuter tires. I had the dealer swap them for the hybrids shown on assembly, and I'm really glad I did. You don't need full-blown MTB tires.

Others can better help you with the hub-drive vs. mid-drive decision. Just be aware that folks around here can get pretty emotional around that choice. If your hills aren't overly long or steep, a hub-drive should suffice at lower cost.

Finally, it bears repeating: Test if at all possible and make sure you can get local service on whatever you buy.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

EDIT: I forgot the SL in the description when I first wrote this. What a maroon! VADO SL

Hard to go past a Spec Turbo Vado 4 SL, presumably step through… 2500 bucks, disc brakes a real range of usable gears (44 tooth crank, 11-42 cassette). Also, very light, relatively speaking, so you can handle the freaking thing while not actually riding it. And since you are already a real cyclist, you can make the range on these things pretty incredible by turning it off on flats since it is eminently rideable without the power on. At your stated comfort zone for speeds and terrains, I don’t know why you would really need the front shock and additional expense of the 5. Put 42mm gravel tires on it and run them a little soft and you’re good to go.

(Yes, I own a Specialized (a Creo) but I also have a Giant and various Yamahas, Treks and Cannondales in the rear view mirror. Not a shill for Spec, but this makes sense.)

 

[TrevorB]

Lower spec middrive bikes typically have less powerful motor 50nm, smaller battery and lower spec gears and brakes. These should be fine for your purposes, any 50nm motor is more than enough to keep up with unassisted rider. Whether you endup riding in eco or tour mode time will tell. Go for 500wh battery minimum, if bike shop allows it try upgrading to +600wh. Besides bigger battery a spare or lunchtime charge are the other ways to extend range. On longer rides try adding lunch break at cafe..

For general use, mudguards lights, kickstands and rack for pannier make life easier.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

EDIT: I forgot the SL in the description when I first wrote this. What a maroon! VADO SL

Hard to go past a Spec Turbo Vado 4 SL, presumably step through… 2500 bucks, disc brakes a real range of usable gears (44 tooth crank, 11-42 cassette). Also, very light, relatively speaking, so you can handle the freaking thing while not actually riding it. And since you are already a real cyclist, you can make the range on these things pretty incredible by turning it off on flats since it is eminently rideable without the power on. At your stated comfort zone for speeds and terrains, I don’t know why you would really need the front shock and additional expense of the 5. Put 42mm gravel tires on it and run them a little soft and you’re good to go.

(Yes, I own a Specialized (a Creo) but I also have a Giant and various Yamahas, Treks and Cannondales in the rear view mirror. Not a shill for Spec, but this makes sense.)

The Vado SL 4 is a rigid e-bike and the tyres themselves won't do in the rough terrain (it is not a Creo) that's why i recommend the version 5. I had to spend money and effort to convert my SL 4 to something nearly as good as the SL 5.

 

[PDoz]

My wife rides the norco version of your trek , it's been a spectacular bike for what she does . On lionger hills, we debate the relative merits of electrifying her bike or sinking silly $ into buying her an ebike. Probably the e version of her bike - a norco scene vlt - or perhaps just fit a throttle driven front hub to her bike so she can dial in a little extra help on hills ) .

But then we stop, smell the roses, and I get to enjoy a break without admitting I needed a rest.

 

[Gionnirocket]

The Vado SL 4 is a rigid e-bike and the tyres themselves won't do in the rough terrain (it is not a Creo) that's why i recommend the version 5. I had to spend money and effort to convert my SL 4 to something nearly as good as the SL 5.

You can't just convert a bike with parts into the new version. The manufacturer goes thru great expense to engineer the bike and you just can't change parts and think that you have something better

 

[PDoz]

This is hard to write without sounding dismissive -sorry - have you asked him if he wants you to try keeping up for longer rides?

I notice you mention how much fun your bike is , and I totally agree. Part of the reason we haven't moved to a scene vlt is the extra weight will take away some of the fun. My wife rode a front hub converted version of her scene, and once the novelty of zooming along under throttle wore off , she started to notice the bike was heavier and she felt less comfortable. She doesn't like the power delivery of my giant, and my specialized SL doesn't produce enough power to justify the extra cost / complexity for her.

We've tried a couple of alternatives to keep her happy on the scene - my preferred option is to ride beside and lend a hand - literally pushing a little on longer hills. I used to have a retractable tow line on my seat post, it was great for towing young kids up hills ( and later for them to tow me ) , Not safe in traffic. Ultimately, saddle comfort limits endurance more than legs, so we enjoy social cruising for what it is.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

For what it is worth a Vado SL 4 or 5 with a single Range Extender is good for 72 miles if there are no big hills around, and still giving solid assistance at 55%.

Perhaps Levo SL (a mountain bike) is too weak for technical mountain single tracks but Vado SL is strong enough for pavement, gravel or mild off-road. Its light weight makes it as close to the traditional bike as possible, and the Vado SL is not overpowered or heavy.

There is a phenomenon in families adopting the e-bike for wife. As the wife usually gets a full power e-bike, she becomes faster than her hubby, which is not good for the family happiness, and it often leads for another e-bike, for the husband this time Vado SL is as balanced as it is the ideal e-bike for families.

 

[PDoz]

For what it is worth a Vado SL 4 or 5 with a single Range Extender is good for 72 miles if there are no big hills around, and still giving solid assistance at 55%.

Perhaps Levo SL (a mountain bike) is too weak for technical mountain single tracks but Vado SL is strong enough for pavement, gravel or mild off-road. Its light weight makes it as close to the traditional bike as possible, and the Vado SL is not overpowered or heavy.

There is a phenomenon in families adopting the e-bike for wife. As the wife usually gets a full power e-bike, she becomes faster than her hubby, which is not good for the family happiness, and it often leads for another e-bike, for the husband this time Vado SL is as balanced as it is the ideal e-bike for families.

I guess this shows how individual our opinions are .

I absolutely love my levo SL, but my wife feels the level of assistance is not enough to justify the extra cost and complexity compared to her riding her norco scene. If you want votes- my 18 yo daughter loves (aka steals) my SL - she rides the silver bike in the photo I posted above , the 17 yo thinks it's too heavy and doesn't care about the assistance..... and my 14 yo son disappears into the distance on his regular bike.....so that doesn't help either

Herc- ride (hire) one before even thinking about spending the silly $ that is involved in specialized ownership (again, I love my specialized - but my wife doesn't) .

We talk about levels of assistance , and the specialized SL motor "doubles" rider input (compared to 3-4 x for a full power bike) - the one in the Vado (mahle 1.1 ) is now an outdated under powered noisy product that is due to be replaced with the 1.2 when Specialized decides their marketing team needs some extra work. (they are busy with the latest levo getting the new motor, so perhaps in 6 months???) The newer motor is quieter and offers slightly more torque , but still doesn't offer as much assistance as most ebikes. IF you decide you like the Vado , then you can decide if you are happy to wait for the upgrade , or better still wait for the pre upgrade discounts.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

the one in the Vado (mahle 1.1 ) is now an outdated under powered noisy product that is due to be replaced with the 1.2 when Specialized decides their marketing team needs some extra work.

It is not outdated (it is compatible with all Specialized SL solutions). It is even not particularly noisy (says who, an owner of a noisy Giant e-MTB?) The fact the more powerful SL 1.2 motor has found its way to the new Specialized e-MTB does not mean Specialized will equip all new SL e-bikes with that motor. The SL 1.2 will also mean less battery range. The price of any SL 1.2 e-bikes will be exorbitant while the current SL e-bikes get massive discounts in the United States.

Yes, I agree Herc should do a demo ride.

(Ever ridden a Vado SL PDoz?)

 

[PDoz]

It is not outdated (it is compatible with all Specialized SL solutions). It is even not particularly noisy (says who, an owner of a noisy Giant e-MTB?) The fact the more powerful SL 1.2 motor has found its way to the new Specialized e-MTB does not mean Specialized will equip all new SL e-bikes with that motor. The SL 1.2 will also mean less battery range. The price of any SL 1.2 e-bikes will be exorbitant while the current SL e-bikes get massive discounts in the United States.

Yes, I agree Herc should do a demo ride.

(Ever ridden a Vado SL PDoz?)

Are you deliberately forgetfull?

I'm on my THIRD 1.1 mahle motor in my leveo sl , plus I've ridden several other mahle 1.1 motored bikes, so I think I'm more than qualified to know the 1.1 mahle IS noisy .

Yes, I also own a giant -2018 , it came with the original yamaha / giant pwx1 which growled, but now has the updated pwx 2 from 2020 - that whines.

Plus I've ridden all the last 5 years / generations of Bosch / shimano higher end motors, and the trek TQ - ALL are quieter than the mahle . The TQ is my favourite

The 1.1 Mahle is over 4 years old , we've come a long way in those 4 years. Even when it was new it was considered under powered and noisy .

 

[pmcdonald]

I used to have a retractable tow line on my seat post, it was great for towing young kids up hills ( and later for them to tow me ) , Not safe in traffic. Ultimately, saddle comfort limits endurance more than legs, so we enjoy social cruising for what it is.

An inspired solution @PDoz: retractable tow line for hubby, no ebike needed! Should cut his ride distances down too

Well worth making the Trek to your Trek store, even if all their options are above your budget (as is a Vado SL, more so if you need to modify it for comfortable riding). At least you'll get a sense of assist levels, mid drives (ie. Verve) vs hubs (Dual Sport), and the trade-off between weight and range. Armchair research only gets you so far - at some point you need to ditch us pundits and test ride as much as possible.

Going in as a first time ebike owner I always suggest buying at the lower end of the market. Evaluate how well the bike is serving your needs over time and sell and upgrade in a few years time if you've outgrown it. It's very hard to get it right first time (I didn't).

I don't think you need an extra battery upfront. Save the cash and work out real world practical range for you before dumping more money into the venture.

 

[PDoz]

This was the tow rope - it seems expensive, but the line is dyneema so lasted a few years of dragging kids up hills. The recoil system is effective at taking up slack and ensuring it doesn't catch wheels. More importantly, you can leave it on his bike and sneak up to use it.....

TRAX PRO BICYCLE TOWING SYSTEM - Traxbike

TRAX PRO is a device designed to be installed on a bike, in order to tow another bike. It can tow both adults and children and can also be used with e-bikes. TRAX PRO is the second version of TRAX MTB. An evolution achieved thanks to the feedback from customers who have placed their trust in us...

traxbike.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The 1.1 Mahle is over 4 years old , we've come a long way in those 4 years. Even when it was new it was considered under powered and noisy .

The Bosch system is 8 years old and noisy. Still people buy Bosch E-Bikes. You are on your 4th motor but motors do not live long on e-MTBs

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don't think you need an extra battery upfront. Save the cash and work out real world practical range for you before dumping more money into the venture.

SL Range Extender now costs US$450.

 

[pxpaulx]

@Herc - a lot of overly detailed discussion in your thread here!

A good option may be finding something used from an online business - upway.co or bicyclebluebook.com are both good options. Upway in particular appears to largely be new old stock from retailers (many bikes listed with 5miles of use).

As far as range - I'm still 300lbs (working on it...) and wouldn't hesitate to ride 50 miles on my Brose mid-drive bikes, both of which have a 700wh battery. If you enjoy pedaling and just want the range, any brand name bike with a good mid drive from Bosch/Brose/Yamaha and 500wh+ will cover that 40-60 mile range without any sort of issue!

Upway has a few Momentum Vida e+, Momentum Transcend e+, Liv Roam E+ and some Gazelle bikes (though I don't like the rear-mount battery) all under $2K, shipping is free currently.