Suspension vs. Bigger Tires

[reluctantsuburban]

Hey All,

I'm sure we'll see a wide range of opinions on this, but I am shopping around for my first ebike where the primary use is a 20 mile one way commute on city streets (with some short cuts across bike paths and sidewalks at appropriate speeds). The roads in some sections of the city are pretty torn up. As I've asked for advice, some people have advocated for no suspension except for a suspension seat post, others say a front fork, and some say full suspension.

I went into a local bike shop this week to get a new tube and was talking with the owner about the potentially converting one of my old bikes with a hub kit, and she said she would never do suspension on an ebike for city riding as it just adds weight--that all I need are some wide tires.

What are your thoughts--no, partial, full suspension, or just big ol' tires? What do you think is needed on sometimes poor quality paved roads?

Thanks!

 

[christob]

Don’t have any experience to chime in with (rigid front fork here.) But a compatible suspension fork for my model is coming out soon, so it has me somewhat curious. Though at the LBS today, I brought it up with one of the regular techs I work with and he said it will add weight and will also consume more energy... that while it will perhaps make my (paved) commutes more comfortable, the bouncing will essentially waste some energy on some level. (Whether enough to be noticeable—faster battery drain, or faster fatigue?) I dunno—but I’d be curious to see if that come up in any responses here...

 

[AlanDB]

But, won't "bigger" tires also scrub off some energy too, especially if you reduce the tire pressure to improve the ride? I am glad my ebike has a suspension fork and seat post. Ebikes are already heavy, so I am not convinced a few extra pounds on the suspension components makes all that much difference.

 

[PDoz]

A decent air sprung front fork is going to cost you an extra 3 lb - look for run out / old stock online and you will be unlikely to ride rigid forks again. The better quality forks will not bounce around, and if you go air sprung with adjustable dampening , it's easy to make them as rigid or compliant as you like. Better still, go for something with lock out so you can have forks for the sections you know are bumpy then rigid when you want better braking / less nosedive etc.

Do you have an opportunity to ride a bike with GOOD forks to discover the difference?

 

[harryS]

Triathalon riders don't want suspension because it absorbs power from their downward leg thrusts. Hybrid bikes have lockouts on their front suspension for the same reason. There's no extra up/down with an ebike. Get a front suspension if you want a little softer ride.

Your LBS employees have been conditioned to sell light weight, and they don't know the paradigm shift with ebikes. While I personally like to keep my ebikes light, they all have more than enough power to burn.

I've added suspension forks to two bikes, but didn't think they were needed for my fatbike since it has the fat tires. I also have no need to ride on bad roads, so I'm not the one to ask. Hitting a pot hole at 28 mph? I've got bikes fast enough to do it, but I wouldn't want to hit one at 12 mph.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I am going to be a bit heretical here...

There are many of hard-core gravel weenies who are riding in atrocious conditions (I guarantee far worse than your pretty torn-up roads) and they aren't using suspension forks and are often using tires that are less than 50mm. And they haven't suffered any permanent damage that I can observe.

I'll leave you with two outside-the box thoughts: the first is that there isn't any rule that says that you need to use the same tire size front and rear -- you'll probably get a big stability and shock absorption win with a wider front tire -- and as a bonus most frames have more clearance on the front wheel than the rear so it is easier to pack a bigger tire there. The other is to consider a suspension stem.

I've posted this video before. Take a good look at what these dudes are riding on. And take a good hard look at where they are riding. There is a lot in this world where you can accomplish a great deal with skill without having technology be an intermediary for you:

 

[Trail Cruiser]

I am going to be a bit heretical here...

There are many of hard-core gravel weenies who are riding in atrocious conditions (I guarantee far worse than your pretty torn-up roads) and they aren't using suspension forks and are often using tires that are less than 50mm. And they haven't suffered any permanent damage that I can observe.

I'll leave you with two outside-the box thoughts: the first is that there isn't any rule that says that you need to use the same tire size front and rear -- you'll probably get a big stability and shock absorption win with a wider front tire -- and as a bonus most frames have more clearance on the front wheel than the rear so it is easier to pack a bigger tire there. The other is to consider a suspension stem.

I've posted this video before. Take a good look at what these dudes are riding on. And take a good hard look at where they are riding. There is a lot in this world where you can accomplish a great deal with skill without having technology be an intermediary for you:

These are seasoned cyclists on adverse weather conditions. Interesting their mud flaps extend all the way down ( at 1:36 of the video).

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

she said she would never do suspension on an ebike for city riding as it just adds weight--that all I need are some wide tires.

She is correct. This is the consensus among experienced riders.
Hard tires @120 PSI would have to lift the whole bike when going over a rock or a pebble. Whereas the wide tire at lower psi will deform itself to envelope that small pebble and glove over. Few enthusiasts here put in a Schwalbe 27.5 G-one tire. Check out this thread:
https://electricbikereview.com/foru...-one-g-one-2-35-29er.23684/page-2#post-144776

Trek has perhaps the most-qualified, experienced bike designers anyone can think of. Why would they spec a Schwalbe Super Moto X tire on their premium bike like Super Commuter with no suspension? There must be some reason behind their decision.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...uter/super-commuter-8s/p/17297/?colorCode=red

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...es/crossrip/crossrip/p/17457/?colorCode=black

Any suspension is better than no suspension is a pure cognitive illusion.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

These are seasoned cyclists on adverse weather conditions. Interesting their mud flaps extend all the way down ( at 1:36 of the video).

They discuss fenders in quite a bit of detail. Actually that website is a great resource for awful-conditions riding.

Yes, they are seasoned cyclists. It seems wise to me to learn from more experienced people.

 

[reluctantsuburban]

Thanks for the replies so far!

@Rincon that makes sense to me, and seems to be the consensus of lots of people as I read online. However, I have seen others who are very opposed to adding additional weight. Generally, it seems like the motor should make up the difference (as you have found)

@PDoz great question--I don't know enough about mountain biking components to really know! I am hoping to test drive some Bulls models in the coming weeks, and my assumption is they will have good quality components, but if you know of any names or things I should look out for, I am all ears.

@harryS thanks for the input. I would be really curious to hear what model you own, what you have built, and how you would compare pre-built to DIY!

@Mr. Coffee - thanks for the video and link. They are riding in much more intense terrain than me, that's for sure!

@Ravi Kempaiah makes total sense in regards to small road debris. Would the same logic still apply to larger obstructions, like cracks in cement from heat and potholes? (Legitimately asking!)

 

[rich c]

I have a full air suspension Emtb and a E trekking bike with spring fork and suspension seat post. I'm also 66 years old. There are days that the trekking bike still feels too stiff to me. The fork is a joke, it just bangs when you hit any hole at all. Narrower tires on it too. It does have the right feel on the highway though. The Emtb floats and absorbs everything! From roots on the trail to riding off a curb. When I ride the streets around our son in Chicago, I much prefer the full suspension. Pot holes, man hole covers, it makes no difference. Just ride as fast as you want. No raising out of the saddle to let your legs take the hit. With my hip talking to me more often now, staying in the saddle has it's benefits! The full suspension bike has the Super Moto-X tires, so oversized tires and full suspension. For my body, that's the bike to go with.

 

[DaveMatthews]

You can always lock out a decent front suspension fork.
I have a hardtail Giant MTB. If I want to do a commute on road I'll add some tire pressure but rarely lock out the fork. It's available if you need/want that though.
I like my suspension, and might do the seatpost thing next spring. 50 miles should be easily accomplished on most bikes these days if you're not using the higher speed assist levels.

 

[AHicks]

My vote, from a very large senior. I wouldn't be without a front suspension, even a cheap one. The lock outs are for guys standing up and pumping on those pedals hard - not a likely scenario my bike will ever see. A big seat (with big springs e.g. Cloud 9) and sprung seat post also provide some high frequency protection for my butt. Yes, I have to get off that seat for a serious (or even some not so serious) bump, but the rattley rough gravel, crushed limestone that hasn't quite packed yet, pavement in very poor condition, and other semi smooth surfaces are all much nicer with the seat and post plan. I'm not so sure about dealing with a rear suspension though. Finding one that has any chance at working properly under my weight is generally an issue.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Would the same logic still apply to larger obstructions, like cracks in cement from heat

Yes. The wider the tire, the more you get this effect. I ride a bike with 45mm tires and a marginally useful front suspension. When I stopped filling the tires to the upper limit (85psi) and started filling to 65psi, my ride got more comfortable. I have the same conditions you describe on the roads I commonly take. When I added a Cloud 9 seat, it got even better. I'll try locking the front suspension and see if it makes much of a difference.

Oh yeah, I have 700c wheels. Diameter makes a difference, especially with larger obstructions.

 

[reluctantsuburban]

Yes. The wider the tire, the more you get this effect. I ride a bike with 45mm tires and a marginally useful front suspension. When I stopped filling the tires to the upper limit (85psi) and started filling to 65psi, my ride got more comfortable. I have the same conditions you describe on the roads I commonly take. When I added a Cloud 9 seat, it got even better. I'll try locking the front suspension and see if it makes much of a difference.

Oh yeah, I have 700c wheels. Diameter makes a difference, especially with larger obstructions.

Awesome, thanks Bruce. If you do get around to locking it out, I would be interested to hear your feedback!

 

[Alex M]

Sure, get wider tires. I would think 2.0-2.3. And then - get front shock and seatpost suspension. Bigger rear end will love a wider seat too, but this is a delicate balancing act, no pun intended - too big seat will impede your downward stroke and too much softness may feel restricting.

Shop owners are conditioned to non-powered bikes. Water bottle weighs a pound. Seat upgraded to Cloud 9 adds another pound. Average 20 lbs e-kit will dwarf your 2-pound front shock. (Commercial e-frame alone could add as much as 10 lbs compared to non-powered bike, but you are not buying commercial).

Everybody hopes not to ride e-bike without power, ever - if it comes to this, you'll be a sorry ars to push this weight with or without front shock

 

[PDoz]

Thanks for the replies so far!

@PDoz great question--I don't know enough about mountain biking components to really know! I am hoping to test drive some Bulls models in the coming weeks, and my assumption is they will have good quality components, but if you know of any names or things I should look out for, I am all ears.
!)

With the bulls bikes, their mid spec and above hardtail emtb's will give you an idea of a decent fork - eg the estream evo 3 has a rockshox yari - as a very simple rule of thumb, look for air sprung ( more adjustable to suit your weight / intended speeds) , and at least 32 mm diameter to be stiff enough to cope with the speeds and weight of an ebike. For commuting, you don't need a lot of travel - say 100-120 mm . If anything, longer travel forks are going to feel unstable if you grab a big handfull of brakes

The difficulty you may have is finding a dcent fork that's compatible with whatever wheels you are currently using. Most mtb forks moved to thicker axles 10-15 years ago (15 mm through axles) . So, for example, amongst the rockshox range I think the best specked old style axle would be the https://www.sram.com/rockshox/products/recon-silver-tk-1 ( I have the 15 mm axle /130 mm travel version on my old human powered mtb, it's a reasonable but not amazing fork)

 

[FSRBart]

When it comes to poorly paved roads, I'd say you don't "need" suspension.

I say that but there are many considerations IMO. Do you have bad wrists, back, neck, etc? Do bumps and pavement irregularities bother you physically? What is your budget?

When I went to buy my first ebike, suspension was a big part of my decision. I was a diehard MTB'er but due to health issues, realized I would be doing far less MTBing than I had in the past. I could have easily made the switch completely to just riding onroad. The sales person said, if I had any desire to do any offroad, get the full suspension. I'm glad I did.

I know this isn't your situation. As I mentioned I ride mostly onroad now. My full suspension bike has the option to lockout the suspension, effectively making my eMTB a rigid bike if I choose. But I leave the suspension "on" to do it's work. It is nice and I don't get as beat up. The weight isn't an issue. These ebikes make them feel like a non-motorized bike and I have more than enough charge for any of my rides...

 

[pnop]

As has been noted, you can get by with a suspension but I'd bet you will be happier with one. I put larger tires on my bike and it helps but as I've noted before, hitting a decent hole at 20 plus mph can be jarring. I plan on suspension with my next bike.

 

[Alaskan]

Traditional bicycle people have been stressing about weight for so long that many cannot, or have not, made the shift to recognizing that ebikes are not sensitive to added weight in the same way as a dino-bike.

There are a number of build requirements for an ebike that make the bike heavier than just the 15-20 lbs. of the motor, battery, controller and display. The frame needs to be stronger and stiffer to host the added forces of the electric motor, brakes need to be stronger to deal with both the added weight and speed. If the bike has a suspension, the suspension parts have to be sufficiently robust to deal with the overall added weight of the bike.

Front and rear suspensions were pioneered as essential added components to mountain bikes, making rougher terrain not just more comfortable but even possible. Adding front and rear suspension to a commuter bike is about more than mere comfort. I own one of the two heaviest ebikes out there, designed principally for touring and commuting, with upright road position and full suspension. The suspension adds significantly to not just comfort but more importantly, safety and control. A suspended bike keeps its tires in contact with the road rather than bouncing on and off the road. This make turns more deliberate, with better traction. It also makes braking much quicker having the tires maintaining contact regardless of road impediments.

The added weight of the suspension does little to slow down a properly powered and vigorously pedaled ebike but adds so much safety and comfort that it is well worth any minor penalty.