Suspension vs. Bigger Tires

[6zfshdb]

Hey All,

I'm sure we'll see a wide range of opinions on this, but I am shopping around for my first ebike where the primary use is a 20 mile one way commute on city streets (with some short cuts across bike paths and sidewalks at appropriate speeds). The roads in some sections of the city are pretty torn up. As I've asked for advice, some people have advocated for no suspension except for a suspension seat post, others say a front fork, and some say full suspension.

I went into a local bike shop this week to get a new tube and was talking with the owner about the potentially converting one of my old bikes with a hub kit, and she said she would never do suspension on an ebike for city riding as it just adds weight--that all I need are some wide tires.

What are your thoughts--no, partial, full suspension, or just big ol' tires? What do you think is needed on sometimes poor quality paved roads?

Thanks!

A 20 mile one way commute shouldn't be a range problem especially if you have the ability to charge your battery at work. Weight therefore shouldn't be an issue. Ebikes effectively make the weight disappear. Make your ride as comfortable as possible. Go for the wide tires, front suspension, cushy seat and suspension seatpost. Aside from cost, I see no downside to adding these features. Although you may not need them now for your commute, if you're like many of us here, you'll like ebiking so much, you'll wind up riding everywhere!

Also consider the future. Age and physical condition play a part as well. You may not need the creature comforts now but you'll appreciate them if you keep your bike long enough.

When I was in my 20's and 30's, I swore air conditioning in a car was a waste of money. Now I wouldn't do without it.

 

[MikeDD]

I have a full air suspension Emtb and a E trekking bike with spring fork and suspension seat post. I'm also 66 years old. There are days that the trekking bike still feels too stiff to me. The fork is a joke, it just bangs when you hit any hole at all. Narrower tires on it too. It does have the right feel on the highway though. The Emtb floats and absorbs everything! From roots on the trail to riding off a curb. When I ride the streets around our son in Chicago, I much prefer the full suspension. Pot holes, man hole covers, it makes no difference. Just ride as fast as you want. No raising out of the saddle to let your legs take the hit. With my hip talking to me more often now, staying in the saddle has it's benefits! The full suspension bike has the Super Moto-X tires, so oversized tires and full suspension. For my body, that's the bike to go with.

I am in agreement with rich c. I am 68 years old. I started with the Rad Mini and used various air pressures for different terrain for single track to city riding, I loved that bike. I recently bought a Specialized Turbo Levo 6Fattie/29. Talk about comfort. Of course there is a price difference. The full suspension has made a big difference in my hands, ( I have osteo arthritis in my thumb joints), it has also made a difference in my bottom after 20 miles.

Good Luck with you choice. Ride as many bikes as you can.

 

[MechaNut]

The secrets to a long distance comfortable ride are vibration prevention (the right tire for your ride conditions), vibration isolation (things like suspension seat posts, padding, a properly fitted saddle, etc), and a comfortable (for you) riding position. A full suspension may help with vibration isolation, but I've found the suspension forks on my bikes are more about keeping the tire on the road in bumpy conditions than specifically making the ride comfortable.

The biggest change, comfort wise, I made to both of my e-bikes was swapping out the off-road/hybrid tires for road tires. It eliminated a ton of vibration and noise which meant my hands didn't go numb and my backside wasn't sore after one of my usual 13-15 mile road rides.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Yes, e-bikes are heavier. But a fully-loaded touring bike can easily be as heavy as an e-bike and you don't see touring bikes with full suspensions.

There is kind of intangible "ride quality"and "road feel" issue here too. If you have a nice springy steel or carbon fiber fork (aluminum isn't as springy inmho) your bike can feel really nimble and responsive and agile. A suspension fork, by comparison, can feel kind of "dead". And paradoxically, that "dead" feeling can be worse when the suspension is locked out.

For your viewing pleasure, here is more video of experienced cyclists riding bad roads in wild, wild country with no suspension and fairly skinny tires. At 3:00 there is a discussion of one guy's bike (he rode a red bike in honor of Osho) sporting 45s on the front and 40s on the rear.

Oh, and if you are crazy enough to try to ride that tour here is the route description.

 

[Alaskan]

@Mr. Coffee Actually the Riese & Muller Delight and Homage are both touring/commuter bikes with full suspensions. So you do see them but not commonly. Riese & Muller calls it "control technology" as the suspension keeps the tires in contact with the road. This enhances both braking and steering adding to control and safety. Additionally reducing vibrations, shakes and shocks, I can "remain in the saddle" far longer with a full suspension, even riding roads.

 

[larry-new]

It all depends on your riding surface...if it's crappy, get tire and suspension help, tor sure!
I can pick my roads, and rarely encounter a pothole, much less hit it, or even a pebble...I can stand on the pedals to minimize bridge and railroad bumps, so I go for narrow 90# tires and lock the suspension out. If the route deteriorated, I'd look for help.

 

[reluctantsuburban]

Thanks to all for the wealth of replies. These are helpful to keep in mind as I test ride some bikes next week.

I have ridden my tentative commute path, but never at a speed near 28mph, so I just don't know how the change in speed will affect. My assumption is, all else being equal, more suspension is better, but unfortunately that also generally means more cost.

Please feel free to continue to weigh it!

 

[Trail Cruiser]

I used to air up the tires of my full suspension to 60 psi and I noticed the ride is not as comfy as 45 psi.

I'd say full suspension and wide comfy tire has additive effect (even synergistic effect) to the overall comfort, especially on long commutes or on rough surfaces.

 

[Alaskan]

As someone who has largely replaced driving a car with riding a bike, my bottom line take on your best choice is this:

You are planning to ride 40 miles a day, commuting 20 miles and back.

In your shoes I would look for:

1. High reliability
2. Maximum comfort
3. The safest bike possible
4. Ready access to replacement parts and professional service

I would not cut corners or pinch pennies in making my selection on something that you will be using so much every day and depending on to get back and forth to work safely.

My 28mph Riese & Muller Homage Rohloff HS, which I ride an average of 30 miles per day is equipped with:

2" (50mm) tires inflated to 40 psi
Fox Float front and rear suspension accurately tuned to my body weight
Kinekt Body Float suspension seat post with springs according my weight
Selle Anatomica saddle speced for someone my size
Ergon grips
Fenders
Bright Lighting - front, rear and side

In my experience, the more comfortable you are, the safer you are, the more you trust your bike, the further and more frequently you will ride.

Riese & Muller Delight and Homage are both touring/commuter bikes with full suspensions. They are both quite expensive. If you can possibly afford one of them I think they will fulfill your needs better than anything else out there.

That said, I think that you might be able to buy a mountain bike with a high speed motor and full suspension and then add a rack, fenders, lighting with more road worthy tires and achieve a similar ride quality for less money.

 

[AHicks]

Alaskan, you're riding an expensive bike to start with (a very nice looking one I might add), and then spending a lot of extra money getting it set to your desires. Just that custom shock tuning (something I'm familiar with from other sports) can be pretty expensive to get right.

My point is, you're riding a pretty extreme commuting bike, and I agree you might be able to build a project bike much less expensively, and do a very nice job on it.

Those looking for a production bike on that level might be further ahead buying a used Toyota!

 

[Alaskan]

@AHicks I didn't realize that Toyota has been making ebikes

On a more serious note; I am well aware of my good fortune in being able to afford the bike of my dreams. I am a guy who wakes up every day with gratitude for being alive and then looks out the window to see if the weather will let me ride my bike.

As to the question posed in this thread, I do recommend that in establishing ones budget, It is all about mind set. Are you looking for a fun recreational toy or safe, reliable, two-wheeled transportation that your life and livelihood will depend on?

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Alaskan, you're riding an expensive bike to start with (a very nice looking one I might add), and then spending a lot of extra money getting it set to your desires. Just that custom shock tuning (something I'm familiar with from other sports) can be pretty expensive to get right.

My point is, you're riding a pretty extreme commuting bike, and I agree you might be able to build a project bike much less expensively, and do a very nice job on it.

Those looking for a production bike on that level might be further ahead buying a used Toyota!

I think Alaskan really wants to ride a bike (for various reasons) and don't mind the cost of making it as comfortable as can be. To me, that's commendable since there are things you enjoy riding a bike that you don't get when riding a car.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

@Alaskan, yes, i know. As you no doubt know i'm riding an R&M Charger GX.

i've also ridden a Co-Motion Pangea and a Surly Disc Trucker, both well-loved touring bikes.

The Charger weighs about 55 lbs and can carry about 45lbs (20kg rear rack limit). The Co-Motion and Surly weigh about 30lbs and can carry 60-70lbs. So the total weight ends up being closer than you'd expect. I've been out on tour for the last ten days or so and I've seen quite a few extremely overloaded (in my view) bike tourists.

I agree that in a lot of cases a properly adjusted suspension can dramatically increase comfort. Again, though, a properly adjusted seat and stem and good choices on the saddle and grips can also dramatically increase comfort.

There are just lots of dials on these machines to adjust, and I think you need to focus on all of them (the dials) and not choose any one or two as a panacea. Also, people are different and will likely come to different solutions that work for them.

I need to hit the road...

 

[Alaskan]

@Mr. Coffee I am well aware of what you ride and a great admirer of where and how much you do so.

The question posed was suspension versus bigger tires in the context of a guy planning to ride 40 miles per day.

It should go without saying that any recommendations I make are based on my own experience, knowledge, age and leanings.

Continue having a good tour out on the coast and look out for those logging trucks on 101!

 

[reluctantsuburban]

@AHicks I didn't realize that Toyota has been making ebikes

On a more serious note; I am well aware of my good fortune in being able to afford the bike of my dreams. I am a guy who wakes up every day with gratitude for being alive and then looks out the window to see if the weather will let me ride my bike.

As to the question posed in this thread, I do recommend that in establishing ones budget, It is all about mind set. Are you looking for a fun recreational toy or safe, reliable, two-wheeled transportation that your life and livelihood will depend on?

Hi @Alaskan -- thanks for the replies. I apologize for not including more information on my current search. I had posted another thread, which I will link here. Please note, I posted that very early on in the process, and my requirements and desires have been (And continue to) shift!

Briefly, I am looking for a commuter that could replace my car (theoretically), predominantly used on a flat, 20 mile one way commute in the Texas heat. My goals are to stay active while commuting and not arrive at work as sweat soaked as I would otherwise. I have some basic cargo needs, but we also have a mini-van, so I think this bike doesn't need to be one size fits all.

If this bike could truly replace my car, meaning I could sell it, I could pay more than $4000. However, if the bike simply suplements my car, providing transport 3-4 days a week, then I think $2000 is my maximum budget. Ultimately, I want to sell my current car (not the mini-van) and ride the bike only. I just haven't convinced myself it will be feasible.

At my $2000 price point, I am looking at something like the Juiced CCS, otherwise I am DIYing. I have been leaning towards DIY because I think I can get more bang for buck. However, if I can truly replace the car, that opens up a whole different world. I think your 4 point list above as to my needs is just about spot on, it's just a matter of establishing by price point.

This thread was brought on after some guys over at Endless Sphere had a vigorous debate about if it would be more appropriate for me to convert a hardtail or FS MTB. The jury is still out, but I do feel more informed.

BTW, your bike is incredible! If I could afford Riese and Muller, I think it would unquestionably be my choice. Maybe you can talk me into it

 

[Bicyclista]

As others have noted, an ebike is radically different from a conventional bike, and one must adjust to the paradigm shift. For most of my life I rode bikes without suspension, and I believed that a suspension (on a road bike, at least) added weight and robbed energy. When I got my first ebike, a Magnum Ui5, I immediately felt the benefits of its front suspension in riding over cracks and bumps at much higher speeds than with my conventional bikes.

I now ride a full-suspension Haibike AllMtn with plus-size tires. The configuration is great both off-road and on-road.

The Juiced CCS would be a good choice. It comes with front suspension, as you know. Get it, and down the line, you could add a suspension seat post and as fat a tire as will fit. Further, go tubeless for greater puncture resistance, and to have the ability to ride at a lower pressure to enjoy a higher quality ride. Good luck!

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Awesome, thanks Bruce. If you do get around to locking it out, I would be interested to hear your feedback!

Went for a longer ride today, and purposely chose a rough road. Locked the front suspension. There was only one large, sharp bump that I really noticed a difference. FWIW.

 

[reluctantsuburban]

Went for a longer ride today, and purposely chose a rough road. Locked the front suspension. There was only one large, sharp bump that I really noticed a difference. FWIW.

Awesome to hear--thanks, Bruce!

 

[PDoz]

At my $2000 price point, I am looking at something like the Juiced CCS, otherwise I am DIYing. I have been leaning towards DIY because I think I can get more bang for buck. However, if I can truly replace the car, that opens up a whole different world. I think your 4 point list above as to my needs is just about spot on, it's just a matter of establishing by price point.

This thread was brought on after some guys over at Endless Sphere had a vigorous debate about if it would be more appropriate for me to convert a hardtail or FS MTB. The jury is still out, but I do feel more informed.
it

I'm not sure you'll get more bang for buck converting vs buying something factory built in that price range - by the time you've bought a conversion kit, battery, fitted forks +/- upgraded brakes +/- eventually upgrading the wheels , that budget will evaporate- and you'll still have a frame designed for normal bike forces. EVERYTHING on my giant full e pro emtb is just so much beefier than the equivalent parts on my norco optic or giant trance oldmtb's - spokes, rims, hubs, forks, frame, etc - I can literally feel the frame and wheels of my norco flex when I corner hard ( I think they are designed to flex a bit) . Even the tyres are extra heavy duty ( thicker and fatter so more puncture resistant but heavier / more resistance when riding) . You'll see the difference when you ride the bulls bikes.

The main advantage of custom building is you can transfer the ebike parts between bikes as your needs clarify, but the factories seem to be putting out some very competitively priced bikes - especially if you don't mind buying discounted 2018 models ( 2019 range are just being released )

 

[AHicks]

Hi @Alaskan -- thanks for the replies. I apologize for not including more information on my current search. I had posted another thread, which I will link here. Please note, I posted that very early on in the process, and my requirements and desires have been (And continue to) shift!

Briefly, I am looking for a commuter that could replace my car (theoretically), predominantly used on a flat, 20 mile one way commute in the Texas heat. My goals are to stay active while commuting and not arrive at work as sweat soaked as I would otherwise. I have some basic cargo needs, but we also have a mini-van, so I think this bike doesn't need to be one size fits all.

If this bike could truly replace my car, meaning I could sell it, I could pay more than $4000. However, if the bike simply suplements my car, providing transport 3-4 days a week, then I think $2000 is my maximum budget. Ultimately, I want to sell my current car (not the mini-van) and ride the bike only. I just haven't convinced myself it will be feasible.

At my $2000 price point, I am looking at something like the Juiced CCS, otherwise I am DIYing. I have been leaning towards DIY because I think I can get more bang for buck. However, if I can truly replace the car, that opens up a whole different world. I think your 4 point list above as to my needs is just about spot on, it's just a matter of establishing by price point.

This thread was brought on after some guys over at Endless Sphere had a vigorous debate about if it would be more appropriate for me to convert a hardtail or FS MTB. The jury is still out, but I do feel more informed.

BTW, your bike is incredible! If I could afford Riese and Muller, I think it would unquestionably be my choice. Maybe you can talk me into it

As an active DIY'er, I'm currently riding a production e-bike/DIY'er hybrid. I had built a 29'er conversion, starting with a brand new bike. Loved it after working out all the bugs, but didn't care for the high step over height (pretty snug on my 6'2" frame). This eventually led me to Rad Bike's City model. After purchasing and riding it for a couple of weeks under a lot of conditions, I found I loved the bike itself (I bought the small frame, so stand over height is no longer an issue, great compromise vs. a step through!), but found the electrical/electronics lacking in just about all areas as I was used to much more robust from the earlier conversion.

So I stripped the 2 week old Rad City of it's electrical and installed a complete 1500w DD conversion kit w/26" wheel. VERY easy install. The only thing I used over again was the battery. Now we're talkin! LCD3 display for tons of custom setup features, cruise, regen, 180mm brakes, 2.3 tires, HD welded on rear rack with hard points for a front rack, double wall rims front and rear, and on and on. PLENTY of power, and ability to customize everything from max amperage available to PAS levels. Price point? Well under 2k. complete.