Shopping for a new Full-Suspension Step-Thru E-Bike w/Throttle -- Best Brand/Model?

[BMWzenRider]

Hello all,
It has been a while since I have prowled these forums, but I recall just how helpful everyone was when shopping for my current e-bike.
Now I am hoping that the collective wisdom might be able to sort out a good option for a new model.

Current ride is a R+M Homage GT Rohloff Class-1 with dual-batteries.

I really love the Homage and intend to keep it.

At the time I bought the R+M, it was the only step-thru frame with full suspension that I could find anywhere, but in the last year they seem to becoming a more popular style of frame/bike, and I am now looking for a stable-mate with a throttle to ride rougher/steeper off-road trails where a throttle will allow me to ride up hills I would otherwise need to dismount for due to pedal strikes on the current bike.
(or, when my knees are just not in the mood to do much pedaling that day...)

My NEEDS:
1 - A Good Quality Full-Suspension! - My knees are bad enough that I can feel every bump through the pedals with a hard-tail, even with a good suspension seat post on pavement.
2 - Step-Thru frame. - (Or, at least, a very low stand-over height) Again, thank my bad knees for that one.
3 - Throttle. - For riding up steep & rutted trails versus getting off to push the Homage because of pedal strikes preventing me from riding.

My STRONG Wants:
4 - Torque Sensor. - I love the natural feel of a torque sensor. Have had one with a rear hub motor as well, and the difference between torque and cadence sensing is magical.
5 - Class-3 (or better) top speed. - Yeah, I enjoy going fast when safe and legal to do so!
6 - Large battery capacity/range. - Would like at least 50 miles throttle-only range if possible. (Carrying a second battery is always an option for longer rides.)
7 - Dropper seat post, or room in the frame to add one.
8 - Large Diameter Wheels - For smoother ride off-road over bumps & ruts.

My Wish-List Perfect Bike desires:
9 - Mid-Drive Motor - To be able to use gearing for hill-climbing.
10 - Internal Geared Hub/B.B. - Such as my current Rohloff or a Pinion unit. - To avoid getting a smashed derailleur off-road.
11 - Belt Drive - Quiet & Clean!
12 - 2-Wheel-Drive??? - For those REALLY steep, rutted, and loose sections...

------------------------------

As far as e-bike options, I do know of a few potential candidates, but wanted to get some feedback from people who might have some experience with those Brands/Models, or if there are any bikes I have missed?
I know that there are a number of moped-style e-bikes out there, some with full-suspension and step-thru, and some with 2-wheel-drive, but I would prefer to find something with larger diameter wheels/tires if possible.

Potential candidates I have found on my own so far, are:
{click on model names to be taken to the website for each}

• Frey C-C
• 
• Magicycle Deer Step-Thru
• 
• Biktrix Juggernaut FS ST
• 
• Eunorau Specter-ST
• 
• E-Cells Step Star
• 
• Himiway A7 Pro
• 
• Cyrusher Trax
• 
• HeyBike Hero Carbon
• 
• HeyBike Horizon (24")
• 

Does anyone have experience owning/riding any of the above?
Are there any that I have missed?
What about experience with the companies if you have not owned/ridden these exact models?
Build quality, customer service, availability of spare parts, ???

------------------------------

Yes, I would consider a light electric motorcycle, IF, it is street legal and has the real-world speed & range I want/need for the trails I ride when out West.

I did buy one of the new Honda CT-125 Trail bikes when they came out in 2018, and while it worked very well as an off-road mule, the ride quality was atrocious (at least for me).
The suspension had very little travel, and bottomed out easily, and the frame was small enough that my knees were practically in my chest, making things feel even worse on my knees because of the extreme bend.
The smaller, moped-sized wheels didn't help with off-road comfort either.
I was also not a fan of the higher pitched drone of the engine while riding, especially when off-road and back in nature.

---------------------------------

Thank you in advance for your advice and experience.

 

[fooferdoggie]

most all of those you have listed have crap suspension. all that extra weight does not help either. bosch may be out as they just released their speed motor in the smart system so there are only a few bikes with It. any even ok suspicion is going to cost you.

 

[BMWzenRider]

most all of those you have listed have crap suspension. all that extra weight does not help either. bosch may be out as they just released their speed motor in the smart system so there are only a few bikes with It. any even ok suspicion is going to cost you.

Thank you for replying.
Would you be able to tell me specifics of which of the above bikes have poor suspensions?

I was willing to pay up for the Riese & Muller Homage and wait over 4 months for it to be built and shipped, because it is worth it for me to be able to keep riding.
I am certainly willing to buy upgraded shock/fork if they will fit.

-----------
None of the major European/Japanese mid-drive motor systems have a throttle available, so it will need to be Bafang or some other Chinese motor.

If I could add a throttle to my current R+M Homage I would be delighted, but that just isn't an option, as far as I can tell from my research.
Some people have tried to add a throttle to various Bosch motors, but from what I can find, all have failed.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I wonder why you would ever need a throttle. It is not found on quality e-bikes. Why would you want to downgrade yourself from a high quality e-bike to a Chinese cr*p?

If not your need of the belt drive and the IGH, I could point to a Specialized Turbo Tero X 6.0.

It is a SUV e-bike capable of riding hard terrain, it is Class 3 but has no belt drive or IGH or a throttle.

How many times did you smash your derailleur, really?

 

[Gionnirocket]

I wonder why you would ever need a throttle. It is not found on quality e-bikes. Why would you want to downgrade yourself from a high quality e-bike to a Chinese cr*p?

If not your need of the belt drive and the IGH, I could point to a Specialized Turbo Tero X 6.0.

View attachment 176970
It is a SUV e-bike capable of riding hard terrain, it is Class 3 but has no belt drive or IGH or a throttle.

How many times did you smash your derailleur, really?.

And of course you're the determiner of what constitutes a quality ebike.
You simply do not understand the throttle. My use of throttle is <0.01% in distance and time of riding but I will never own a bike that doesn't have one.
You know nothing about the bikes listed above and have no personal experience with the overpriced, under powered bike that you suggest. It's not a class 3, step thru, IGH of belt drive.
Why is it impossible for you to understand that someone can have a different want/need then appealing to some idealistic approach to riding.
You're pitifully and more so boringly obtuse.

@BMWzenRider
I have a Zen eBikes prototype (not available yet) that is very similar to the Biktrix with a Rohloff and Bafang Ultra mid_drive.

Love the ride and power as it will climb anything but can still be efficient if rode conservatively on paved surfaces.
I do pedal strike on deep root and rocks if not cautious.
On the downside it is heavy. Not an issue when riding but can be when manhandling.

 

[BMWzenRider]

I wonder why you would ever need a throttle. It is not found on quality e-bikes. Why would you want to downgrade yourself from a high quality e-bike to a Chinese cr*p?

Because sometimes I take trails with ruts that are impossible to pedal in, rocks & steps big enough to bash the motor against.
There are also grades so steep & rough that if I have to stop in the middle of them, there is no way to get going again trying to pedal.

If not your need of the belt drive and the IGH, I could point to a Specialized Turbo Tero X 6.0.

It is a SUV e-bike capable of riding hard terrain, it is Class 3 but has no belt drive or IGH or a throttle.

The R&M Homage is fully capable of riding hard terrain, and a rider who could still stand on the pedals and spin them while climbing probably could conquer the hills I struggle with, because my knees and ankle don't let me get out of the saddle to pedal any more.

There is something about having both of your legs bent sideways with multiple tib-fib fractures, a compound fracture of one knee, total dislocation with a crushed artery in the other, and all of your ligaments and tendons in both knees separated that makes them not work as well afterwards.

How many times did you smash your derailleur, really?

Several times before switching to my current Homage, actually. You may not appreciate just how rutted & rocky some of the trails I enjoy can get.
In addition I put a derailleur in danger from sometimes simply dropping the bike when stopping off-camber on uneven terrain; even on the Homage in spite of the step-thru frame.

I am simply trying to do all I can to keep riding in the areas I love.
And at this point in my life, that means having a throttle available when needed to compensate for my legs/knees no longer working as well as I would like.

It may mean finding a lightweight electric motorcycle, and foregoing pedaling at all on those trails, but I would prefer to put that off for as long as possible.

 

[jabberwocky]

Your broad issue is that pavement bikes with suspension generally have crap suspension. Short travel, not great quality shocks, linkages designed by people who don't really understand leverages and wheel paths to the degree that MTB designers do (especially designers who have been working on conventional MTBs for a long time). Fine for smoothing out bumps on pavement. Won't work that great once you're off road on rougher terrain. Not sure how good the R+M is in this department. I would hope they have a good design given their bike prices, but I also suspect they don't tune the Homage for off road performance since its seems to be more of a comfortable distance tourer.

Your second issue is that actual emtbs are generally going to be class 1 without a throttle, because MTB trails that allow class 3s or throttles are rare. At least in the US. Don't know where you are.

If you're riding trails that are washed out enough that you're getting frequent pedal strikes, you should also look at geometry. City type bikes are generally lower to the ground for stability. MTBs are higher for ground clearance and to help with pedal strikes. To a degree, this is a tradeoff, because a lower bike is more stable. Some types of mountainbikes are lower (enduro, DH) because they are designed for downhill stability above ground clearance. My emtb has enduro geometry. I do hit the pedals a lot if I'm not careful.

Pedal strikes are, to a degree, something that can be overcome with technique. This may be an issue for you because of your knee problems, but when I'm riding through rock gardens I'm watching for holes I'm going to sink into or rocks sticking up and ratcheting (pedal 90 degrees, backpedal, pedal another 90, backpedal, repeat) to keep the crank from reaching its lowest rotation. That said, I do run shorter crank arms (155mm) on my emtb than I do on my conventional mtb (170mm). Its not the best for pedaling efficiency but the motor helps with that. You may consider shorter crank arms, its an inexpensive upgrade compared to a new bike!

In addition to shorter crank arms, I would look into tuning the suspension on the R+M. Dunno how much work you've done in that regard, but getting the shock tuned can be a night-and-day difference. Especially if pressure is too high or low (meaning its wallowing low in its travel and bottoming out or not handling small bumps well). Compression and rebound damping being off can be a huge issue too.

Only other comment is that belt drive and full suspension is a difficult combo to pull off. Generally suspension designs require a chainline that changes length which is easily handled with a derailler and chain (the derailleur maintains tension) but is almost impossible with a belt since the tension requirements are so high.

 

[BMWzenRider]

And of course you're the determiner of what constitutes a quality ebike.
You simply do not understand the throttle. My use of throttle is <0.01% in distance and time of riding but I will never own a bike that doesn't have one.

I will keep my no-throttle Homage for normal riding at home, but I do need one for the 1% situations where I simply am not able to get through by pedaling when traveling to the Southwest each winter.

@BMWzenRider
I have a Zen eBikes prototype (not available yet) that is very similar to the Biktrix with a Rohloff and Bafang Ultra mid_drive.
View attachment 176976 View attachment 176977
Love the ride and power as it will climb anything but can still be efficient if rode conservatively on paved surfaces.
I do pedal strike on deep root and rocks if not cautious.
On the downside it is heavy. Not an issue when riding but can be when manhandling.

That looks very close to my ideal setup!
When will they be available to the public???

I see that it has a RockShocks fork, what is the rear shock?
And is that a dropper post I spy?
The steering angle also looks very "relaxed" for better rough surface stability.

About the only thing the Homage has that this is missing is the belt drive and the rear rack being a part of the main frame (rather than being part of the rear triangle).
I do find that having the rear rack and cargo as a part of the suspended main frame makes the Homage more stable and smooth riding than the typical unsprung rear rack configurations of most full suspension bikes.

As far as weight, that is not as much of an issue, because I transport my bikes in an enclosed trailer with a rear ramp door, and I am already used to the weight of my dual-battery Homage at 75lbs (34kg).

 

[scrambler]

There is a (long) step thru thread you may want to read.

I posted a few times following reviews of the FS models with geared hubs and belt, as this is the bike I am looking for for my wife too.

Unfortunately many (not all) are in Europe only

Step-Thru | Page 41 | Electric Bike Forums (electricbikereview.com)

Step-Thru | Page 40 | Electric Bike Forums (electricbikereview.com)

Step-Thru | Page 40 | Electric Bike Forums (electricbikereview.com)

Step-Thru | Page 39 | Electric Bike Forums (electricbikereview.com)

Step-Thru | Page 32 | Electric Bike Forums (electricbikereview.com)

Pinion MGU | Electric Bike Forums (electricbikereview.com)

Zen has supposedly one in the making, but have not heard anything recently about it. Below is the bike, and it would be available with belt and Enviolo CVT

'Zen Skunkworks' - a new model in the development

I personally, as an owner of one, wouldn't recommend the M620 for a rental bike. Perhaps the new M560 that appears to be the latest refinement of the M600 that still will have plenty of power and be much lighter might be a better option? I do like the concept of this bike though.

forums.electricbikereview.com

You can ask @Ravi Kempaiah if it is still in the plans

 

[jabberwocky]

I am simply trying to do all I can to keep riding in the areas I love.
And at this point in my life, that means having a throttle available when needed to compensate for my legs/knees no longer working as well as I would like.

It may mean finding a lightweight electric motorcycle, and foregoing pedaling at all on those trails, but I would prefer to put that off for as long as possible.

Of the ones you posted, I'd vote for the Frey and then the Biktrix. The Frey looks to have some sort of dual-link suspension (which are hard to design and manfuacture, so hopefully they got it right). The Biktrix appears to be single pivot. The Frey has better components. Its a more upright head angle than the Biktrix. Its hard to find people who actually ride these sorts of bikes on the trails you're riding (I'm sure they are capable, but they seem to mainly be bought by people who want a high power comfortable pavement commuter).

If you're mainly riding moto trails, you may be a good candidate for something like a Sur-Ron or Talaria Sting. Basically a light e-moto. Keep the R+M for pedal days.

 

[BMWzenRider]

Your broad issue is that pavement bikes with suspension generally have crap suspension. Short travel, not great quality shocks, linkages designed by people who don't really understand leverages and wheel paths to the degree that MTB designers do (especially designers who have been working on conventional MTBs for a long time). Fine for smoothing out bumps on pavement. Won't work that great once you're off road on rougher terrain. Not sure how good the R+M is in this department. I would hope they have a good design given their bike prices, but I also suspect they don't tune the Homage for off road performance since its seems to be more of a comfortable distance tourer.

I am fully cognizant of the tradeoffs between affordable street bike design and the advantages of a purpose built off-road bike with higher level suspension components and geometries.
I spent a number of years studying bicycle design as well as building a dozen of so recumbent bicycles. I own my own copy of the book "Bicycling Science" by David Gordon Wilson.
My senior project for my Mechanical Engineering degree was designing an HPV with aero shell for commuting.

The R&M is a well designed and built bike, to be sure, but yes, the geometry is more towards street rather than trail comfort & handling. However, it does pretty well off road, even with my limitations. Some of that is down to my having spent time dialing in the air chamber size & pressure, rebound, and damping at both ends.

Your second issue is that actual emtbs are generally going to be class 1 without a throttle, because MTB trails that allow class 3s or throttles are rare. At least in the US. Don't know where you are.

I am mostly riding on jeep trails in national parks and desert areas in the southwest. They are open to any road legal vehicle.

Pedal strikes are, to a degree, something that can be overcome with technique. This may be an issue for you because of your knee problems, but when I'm riding through rock gardens I'm watching for holes I'm going to sink into or rocks sticking up and ratcheting (pedal 90 degrees, backpedal, pedal another 90, backpedal, repeat) to keep the crank from reaching its lowest rotation. That said, I do run shorter crank arms (155mm) on my emtb than I do on my conventional mtb (170mm). Its not the best for pedaling efficiency but the motor helps with that. You may consider shorter crank arms, its an inexpensive upgrade compared to a new bike!

In addition to shorter crank arms, I would look into tuning the suspension on the R+M. Dunno how much work you've done in that regard, but getting the shock tuned can be a night-and-day difference. Especially if pressure is too high or low (meaning its wallowing low in its travel and bottoming out or not handling small bumps well). Compression and rebound damping being off can be a huge issue too.

Sadly, being able to pedal while out of the saddle is something I had to give up after my injuries.
And yes, going to shorter cranks was one of the first modifications I made to the Homage after taking delivery. IIRC, the set currently installed are 155mm, but I also have a set of 160mm, and cannot remember at the moment which I chose to stay with.

I have also changed the primary gearing ratio of the belt drive to a substantially lower ratio to improve ability to climb while spinning in the saddle, while giving me better ratios on the street to use all the gearing the Rohloff offers. Originally, I was hitting the assistance cutoff in 10th gear out of 14. Now I am able to keep the hub in the more efficient upper gears on the street and use them all, while having the lower 7 gears for off road riding.

As far as suspension tuning, I already discussed that above.
I also run upgraded suspension on my motorcycle which has been tuned to my weight and riding preferences, and fully appreciate what a difference proper setup can make.

Only other comment is that belt drive and full suspension is a difficult combo to pull off. Generally suspension designs require a chainline that changes length which is easily handled with a derailler and chain (the derailleur maintains tension) but is almost impossible with a belt since the tension requirements are so high.

I understand.
The R&M solution is functional, but not without its own issues, including belt longevity due to the back bend induced by the tension pulley, which increases the hysteresis fatigue of the belt.
Belt drive is also vulnerable to rocks getting between the belt and sprocket which can damage or snap the belt.
That is why belt drive is down in the wish list section.

The best setup I have seen is to have a drive sprocket concentric with the forward swingarm pivot to maintain constant centerline distance between the sprockets, usually using a jackshaft setup. However, BMW Motorcycles was able to pull it off on one model with direct output from the transmission. (They used a chain for off-road riding, but would be equally valid for a belt, and was done specifically to eliminate the added stress of the chain tension changing with wheel travel which occurs on standard motorcycles with long-travel suspensions)

 

[teskow]

Thank you for replying.
Would you be able to tell me specifics of which of the above bikes have poor suspensions?

I was willing to pay up for the Riese & Muller Homage and wait over 4 months for it to be built and shipped, because it is worth it for me to be able to keep riding.
I am certainly willing to buy upgraded shock/fork if they will fit.

-----------
None of the major European/Japanese mid-drive motor systems have a throttle available, so it will need to be Bafang or some other Chinese motor.

If I could add a throttle to my current R+M Homage I would be delighted, but that just isn't an option, as far as I can tell from my research.
Some people have tried to add a throttle to various Bosch motors, but from what I can find, all have failed.

I wonder why you would ever need a throttle. It is not found on quality e-bikes. Why would you want to downgrade yourself from a high quality e-bike to a Chinese cr*p?

If not your need of the belt drive and the IGH, I could point to a Specialized Turbo Tero X 6.0.

View attachment 176970
It is a SUV e-bike capable of riding hard terrain, it is Class 3 but has no belt drive or IGH or a throttle.

How many times did you smash your derailleur, really?

The question was NOT why anyone would want a throttle. Who cares what YOU would want.

 

[jabberwocky]

I am fully cognizant of the tradeoffs between affordable street bike design and the advantages of a purpose built off-road bike with higher level suspension components and geometries.
I spent a number of years studying bicycle design as well as building a dozen of so recumbent bicycles. I own my own copy of the book "Bicycling Science" by David Gordon Wilson.
My senior project for my Mechanical Engineering degree was designing an HPV with aero shell for commuting.

The R&M is a well designed and built bike, to be sure, but yes, the geometry is more towards street rather than trail comfort & handling. However, it does pretty well off road, even with my limitations. Some of that is down to my having spent time dialing in the air chamber size & pressure, rebound, and damping at both ends.

Sounds like you know what you're doing and know what you want! Just making sure the cheap, low hanging fruit had been addressed. Not that I'd ever talk someone out of a new bike.

I am mostly riding on jeep trails in national parks and desert areas in the southwest. They are open to any road legal vehicle.

Gotcha. Its an issue not from a "you're not legal" standpoint, just in that most companies with deep knowledge of MTB geometry and suspension design are exclusively selling class 1s since thats where access generally is. Sounds like you could do an e-moto if you want, but you do want to do some pedaling as well.

Sadly, being able to pedal while out of the saddle is something I had to give up after my injuries.
And yes, going to shorter cranks was one of the first modifications I made to the Homage after taking delivery. IIRC, the set currently installed are 155mm, but I also have a set of 160mm, and cannot remember at the moment which I chose to stay with.

I have also changed the primary gearing ratio of the belt drive to a substantially lower ratio to improve ability to climb while spinning in the saddle, while giving me better ratios on the street to use all the gearing the Rohloff offers. Originally, I was hitting the assistance cutoff in 10th gear out of 14. Now I am able to keep the hub in the more efficient upper gears on the street and use them all, while having the lower 7 gears for off road riding.

As far as suspension tuning, I already discussed that above.
I also run upgraded suspension on my motorcycle which has been tuned to my weight and riding preferences, and fully appreciate what a difference proper setup can make.

Yeah man, sorry. Thats some gnarly hardware you have bolted in there. Inside of my left elbow looks like this, so I feel ya.

I understand.
The R&M solution is functional, but not without its own issues, including belt longevity due to the back bend induced by the tension pulley, which increases the hysteresis fatigue of the belt.
Belt drive is also vulnerable to rocks getting between the belt and sprocket which can damage or snap the belt.
That is why belt drive is down in the wish list section.

Yeah, back in the late 2000s when the Gates system came onto the market, I had several die-hard singlespeed friends switch out, and they had all switched back within a year. Seemed to just be that trail damage (rocks and sticks and such) kept nicking belts which would then snap and leave them stranded. I did have a Raleigh XXIX with a belt for a while. It was fine. I didn't mind selling it.

The best setup I have seen is to have a drive sprocket concentric with the forward swingarm pivot to maintain constant centerline distance between the sprockets, usually using a jackshaft setup. However, BMW Motorcycles was able to pull it off on one model with direct output from the transmission. (They used a chain for off-road riding, but would be equally valid for a belt, and was done specifically to eliminate the added stress of the chain tension changing with wheel travel which occurs on standard motorcycles with long-travel suspensions)

Yeah, single pivot suspensions seem more common on motos, and in that case you can just make the two sprockets concentric with the pivots and not deal with the changing chainstay length. Kona used to sell the Kona A way back in the day, which was a singlespeed full suspension with the front pivot concentric with the BB. Very unique but didn't last long on the market. Maybe was just ahead of its time, since belt drives didn't exist yet.

 

[Mike_V]

Ranger, reading all of your replies and your background you must have considered riding the very BEST, even if you have to ride less miles per session, haven't you?
LIKE

SRAM EAGLE powered ?

 

[jabberwocky]

Ranger, reading all of your replies and your background you must have considered riding the very BEST, even if you have to ride less miles per session, haven't you?
LIKE SRAM EAGLE powered ?

I mean, if he decides he wants a standard class 1 e-enduro with no throttle, there are lots of options out there. I'd recommend researching over on EMTB forums for that sort of thing, there don't seem to be a ton of mountainbikers here, especially running enduro geometry bikes. But hes been pretty clear he wants a throttle and ideally more power than standard class 1 emtbs.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I own my own copy of the book "Bicycling Science" by David Gordon Wilson.
My senior project for my Mechanical Engineering degree was designing an HPV with aero shell for commuting.

One of my favorite books! I like my hobbies with a side of STEM, and the 3rd and 4th editions are great places to start. The 4th edition (Wilson and Schmidt, 2020) has more ebike-specific coverage, though still not much. Nonetheless, great references on the history of cycling technology and the stuff common to all bicycles. Totally data-driven.

Any other books I should know about?

Good luck with your hunt. Odd how you lay out your use case in a thoughtful and clearly knowledgeable way, and some still can't grasp that you might have good reason to want something they don't.

 

[m@Robertson]

The requirements of the step-thru place quite a limit on the choice of bike.

I have to say the Frey C-C is the only step thru that, over the years, I have considered acceptable for that style of frame. Its got good suspension components, a motor that is being run well below its hot rod level capabilities and you can expect to last pretty much forever. It also has been out on the market for several years and has had plenty of time to have bugs turn up (haven't seen any). And as noted above, it looks to use a decent level of engineering in its frame design.

For trails, I have to say a step-thru would be far from my first choice of frame design, but the C-C looks to address (as best as can be) the concerns I would have about the frame working on a rough dirt doubletrack.

 

[jabberwocky]

My main concern with the C-C is it appears to be offered in only one size, with a 640mm top tube. That would be a large from most mfgs. Pretty big bike. If you're in the 5'10"-6'-0" range, probably fine. But thats not a universal size, even though they are listing it as one.

 

[indianajo]

LIKE SRAM EAGLE powered ?

Bike in post # 14 is not a step through. Being of a certain age, that is a requirement I personally am not flexible about. As my muscles are no longer flexible.
Regards throttle requirement. I just rode my cargo bike ~20 times to my tractor stalled in the field with parts and tools. With all the snake and mole holes, johnson grass clumps and an actual fault line, maintaining a steady pace a la cadence sense or even torque sense would be silly. I was bouncing up & down too much to maintain a steady force level on pedals. A donkey would have been more appropriate but they are so high maintenance and slow when you do not need one. Cargo bike with throttle was minimally adequate. When it got too rough I walked the bike with the throttle at low speed. Better than dragging a Radio Flyer wagon through those weeds (which my ailiing tractor did not cut). (BTW diagnosis, 39 year old fuel line leaking air and rubber flakes into the injector pump).

 

[BlackHand]

My main concern with the C-C is it appears to be offered in only one size, with a 640mm top tube. That would be a large from most mfgs. Pretty big bike. If you're in the 5'10"-6'-0" range, probably fine. But thats not a universal size, even though they are listing it as one.

It's pretty close to the largest Homage frame. But yeah, if OP is used to a small or medium it's gonna be kind of big. Some of the reviews have also said it is closer to a mid-step than a low step or step through. Hopefully OP's knees are good with that.

FWIW, Frey was very open to upgrading suspension from the factory upon request when they first released the CC. Not sure if that's still the case now that they gave a US warehouse.