Rohloff e-14 oil leak

[JVBulman]

In every instance I've witnessed, it's a dark gray.

 

[peterh_nz]

In every instance I've witnessed, it's a dark gray.

Thank you for your reply.

This colour ?

 

[JVBulman]

More or less, yeah.

 

[Augsburg]

We have two 2019 R+M Nevos with Rohloff and both started leaking oil like a sieve after the first oil change at 3,000 miles. The oil leaks on the drive side and gets all over the E-14 and skewer. Every time I fix a flat, I have to wipe everything clean and clean the rotor.

I think the oil leaks through the vent. I replaced the seals under the E-14 when I had to remove it to rebuild the wheel when the rear rim cracked. The seals all looked perfect. We have taken the bikes to and from high elevation (6,000 to 10,000 ft), which probably causes some venting.

I agree with some that say you should not replace so much oil in the Rohloff hub at an oil change. I understand Rohloff recommends the 25ml quantity of clean oil to reduce hub noise, but our Rohloff's are very quiet. I think putting in 10-15ml of oil is probably plenty - as for sure adding more will just leak out anyway.

 

[mountaindweller]

We have two 2019 R+M Nevos with Rohloff and both started leaking oil like a sieve after the first oil change at 3,000 miles. The oil leaks on the drive side and gets all over the E-14 and skewer. Every time I fix a flat, I have to wipe everything clean and clean the rotor.

I think the oil leaks through the vent. I replaced the seals under the E-14 when I had to remove it to rebuild the wheel when the rear rim cracked. The seals all looked perfect. We have taken the bikes to and from high elevation (6,000 to 10,000 ft), which probably causes some venting.

I agree with some that say you should not replace so much oil in the Rohloff hub at an oil change. I understand Rohloff recommends the 25ml quantity of clean oil to reduce hub noise, but our Rohloff's are very quiet. I think putting in 10-15ml of oil is probably plenty - as for sure adding more will just leak out anyway.

I posted on here my ongoing problem with my 2019 R&M Supercharger e-14 where after 1 year it leaked out all over the E-14 , sent it back to Rohloff for repair , and after a year , it leaked once again , same place, spoke to Rohloff and again it looks like I am going to have to send it back via dealership , asked them if this is going to be the norm, their answer

I regret that I cannot comment on whether this current/new oil leakage is from the same are and components we replaced last, or from other areas - we would have to receive and review the unit before we can comment on this. The large SPEEDHUB seals are exposed to the elements though so there is always the possibility for hairs, grasses or other external foreign particles to get caught under the seal lip, creating a bridge under which oil can leak out, or even to damage the actual seal itself. As such, I am unable to answer your question about the expected intervals in which one could expect to have to re-seal a SPEEDHUB. Some of our customers send their units yearly. Some never send them. There are simply too many variables involved to provide a clear answer to this.,
I also wrote to R&M sending that reply , and asked them if it was except able to do this every year with my Supercharger plus the costs involved , if I was to fall into the Rohloff, Some of our customers send their units yearly. category , waiting for R&M to reply, basically an expensive bike that could require having its gear hub repaired each year ? is it common fault, who knows .

 

[JVBulman]

I posted on here my ongoing problem with my 2019 R&M Supercharger e-14 where after 1 year it leaked out all over the E-14 , sent it back to Rohloff for repair , and after a year , it leaked once again , same place, spoke to Rohloff and again it looks like I am going to have to send it back via dealership , asked them if this is going to be the norm, their answer

I regret that I cannot comment on whether this current/new oil leakage is from the same are and components we replaced last, or from other areas - we would have to receive and review the unit before we can comment on this. The large SPEEDHUB seals are exposed to the elements though so there is always the possibility for hairs, grasses or other external foreign particles to get caught under the seal lip, creating a bridge under which oil can leak out, or even to damage the actual seal itself. As such, I am unable to answer your question about the expected intervals in which one could expect to have to re-seal a SPEEDHUB. Some of our customers send their units yearly. Some never send them. There are simply too many variables involved to provide a clear answer to this.,
I also wrote to R&M sending that reply , and asked them if it was except able to do this every year with my Supercharger plus the costs involved , if I was to fall into the Rohloff, Some of our customers send their units yearly. category , waiting for R&M to reply, basically an expensive bike that could require having its gear hub repaired each year ? is it common fault, who knows .

Did it start leaking after an oil change?

 

[mountaindweller]

No , after approx 1 year after Rohloff repair , did an oil change last week with a long overnight drain to see what was in the hub, not a lot, put in 20mil , went on a long ride, it leaked out all over the e-14 area , did a ride again , same thing, spoke to some experts on the subject like Thorn UK who have been in the Rohloff business from the start , They say it does not sound like the usual over fill issues , misting etc, given the quantity of oil loss .

 

[JVBulman]

No , after approx 1 year after Rohloff repair , did an oil change last week with a long overnight drain to see what was in the hub, not a lot, put in 20mil , went on a long ride, it leaked out all over the e-14 area , did a ride again , same thing, spoke to some experts on the subject like Thorn UK who have been in the Rohloff business from the start , They say it does not sound like the usual over fill issues , misting etc, given the quantity of oil loss .

Interesting, 10ml is the recommendation of the official technical service partner here in the states, and we've not seen any leaking after oil changes since switching to this recommendation, even on hubs that were having leaking issues beforehand.

 

[mountaindweller]

The official line with Rohloff , Although the SPEEDHUB has 25ml of oil within it, the hubs only actually require approximately 7ml for lubrication. The remaining 18ml is only included to help with noise damping. This 7ml of oil that the SPEEDHUB requires will never be lost completely because the oil properties allow it to cling highly to the surface areas of all components within the SPEEDHUB. Even after extracting the oil with the syringe, this amount of oil can still be found within the gear-unit. For this reason "The gear unit can definitely not be damaged from riding with too little oil". As long as the SPEEDHUB was originally filled with oil (i.e. not dry) and an oil change is made at least every 5000km (to guarantee that any penetrated moisture is rinsed out), then the gear-unit will continue to run flawlessly.

 

[JVBulman]

The official line with Rohloff , Although the SPEEDHUB has 25ml of oil within it, the hubs only actually require approximately 7ml for lubrication. The remaining 18ml is only included to help with noise damping. This 7ml of oil that the SPEEDHUB requires will never be lost completely because the oil properties allow it to cling highly to the surface areas of all components within the SPEEDHUB. Even after extracting the oil with the syringe, this amount of oil can still be found within the gear-unit. For this reason "The gear unit can definitely not be damaged from riding with too little oil". As long as the SPEEDHUB was originally filled with oil (i.e. not dry) and an oil change is made at least every 5000km (to guarantee that any penetrated moisture is rinsed out), then the gear-unit will continue to run flawlessly

This jives with our success only putting 10ml back into the hub. I think sacrificing a neglegable amount of noise dampening (we've not personally observed a difference between a hub with 25ml vs 10ml) is worth not having the hub puke on the floor every 5000km.

 

[mountaindweller]

I also experienced this (severe leaking). Larger size drops that ran over the E14 before hitting the floor.

1. Temperature changes played a role, notably from cold outdoors to bringing the bike indoors. Presumably the pressure increased as well. The leaking was most severe after a ride in the cold.
2. I learned that the external seals were once considered regular maintenance. The seals and tools were available to the end user. No longer. I consider it unacceptable to have to send the hub away for this service.

Leaking would be much easier to ignore if these bikes were kept in garages with dirty floors, but many of us keep these expensive bikes indoors. I was asked not to bring the bike back to a conference room I use at work after an "incident." The drainage path over the E14 presumably could be diverted somehow -- I don't know if anyone at Rohloff is looking at this since, the party line response is that the hubs don't leak significantly.

My problem was resolved with a new/rebuilt hub. Should this start up again, it'll probably be the end of my relationship with the hub.

I noticed the Australian Rohloff guy told someone that an oily skewer suggests defective seals. My skewer was and is oily since day one.

Hi, how are you doing with your e-14 , just asking as i am now into my 2nd major leak inside of 24 months and have my dealer now sorting the return of the hub to Rohloff , plus making waves with R&M once I get the repair report back , unfortunately my bike is now outside of shop warranty , any further info would be most welcome to strengthen my argument re: why all the leaks ? cheers

 

[mountaindweller]

Just to keep folks informed of my ongoing e-14 leaking gear hub, as you all know this is my 2nd major oil leak in 2 years , (from brand new R&M supercharger) first one it went back from UK to Germany for new oil seals, this time I raised a question ? re: e-14 reliability issues with Rohloff before it went back , granted it was serviced and turned around within 2 weeks , however when I asked them what the fault was, I got this reply.

I regret that I honestly cannot say.

Our service department is completely snowed-under at present in part due to a fatality earlier this year, our current lead time for repairs has extended to approximately 25 working days. Basic/Standard service procedures such as a full re-seal is being done without in-depth analysis as to the cause, in an effort to ensure all hubs are repaired and dispatched back to our customers before we close for our winter vacation. Sorry.

Serious , like it could have a major defect causing the yearly oil leaks , and like they appear to be not bothered, and like if it leaks again , I will have to go through the whole service process again

I emailed them back and explained that time scale wasn't the problem , and would have appreciated a full analysis, and this appears as a quick fix to what could be a major defect, plus I planning a mega tour from the UK to Turkey next year , sure they have said that the gear box will survive on just its basic coating , but its the mess all over the e-14, brake rota, and gates belt that really gets me each time.

Most bike engineers I have spoken to, all state that having 2 oil major oil leaks in 2 years sounds like a bigger problem going on ? as for having numerous oil seal repairs it probably weakens the hub ?

 

[Alaskan]

Why I no longer own a Rohloff. They just don't care. Putting up with an oily mess is an apparent potential cost of club membership.

 

[RMK!]

Sorry you are having these issues. 3000+ miles on my E14 and no leaks. I bought my R&M from a local dealer and I know he would be a great advocate if needed and make things right. I can't imagine spending R&M money on a bike without local service.

That said, I did my first E14 oil change a few weeks back and it was not difficult and no leaks. I live very close to the Cycle Monkey repair facility so you could call them for a consult. Seems you are in the UK and so that might be an issue.

 

[mountaindweller]

Sorry you are having these issues. 3000+ miles on my E14 and no leaks. I bought my R&M from a local dealer and I know he would be a great advocate if needed and make things right. I can't imagine spending R&M money on a bike without local service.

That said, I did my first E14 oil change a few weeks back and it was not difficult and no leaks. I live very close to the Cycle Monkey repair facility so you could call them for a consult. Seems you are in the UK and so that might be an issue.

Thanks for that , I spoken to some of the UK dealerships who have been using Rohloff for years and they all find my issue one some what concerning , I have toured with Rohloff hubs for years on my old steel touring bikes and never had a leak , the thing that really gets me with all of this, I emailed Rohloff back in the summer and laid out my problem, and was advised to run it all through my dealership which I did , and all they did was just change the oil seals once again , leaving me right back where I started with no clear answer , I even wrote to R&M who advised me to do the same , I intend to write once again to R&M .

 

[RMK!]

Thanks for that , I spoken to some of the UK dealerships who have been using Rohloff for years and they all find my issue one some what concerning , I have toured with Rohloff hubs for years on my old steel touring bikes and never had a leak , the thing that really gets me with all of this, I emailed Rohloff back in the summer and laid out my problem, and was advised to run it all through my dealership which I did , and all they did was just change the oil seals once again , leaving me right back where I started with no clear answer , I even wrote to R&M who advised me to do the same , I intend to write once again to R&M .

It does seem that Rohloff is not stepping up but your issue is with your dealer first, then failing that R&M. When folks spend +/- $10K USD for a bike, they have a right to expect excellent service/support. I hope that voicing your concerns here helps your cause. It is a noble one ...

 

[mountaindweller]

It does seem that Rohloff is not stepping up but your issue is with your dealer first, then failing that R&M. When folks spend +/- $10K USD for a bike, they have a right to expect excellent service/support. I hope that voicing your concerns here helps your cause. It is a noble one ...

Sure , I mentioned the fact that I had put the problem out their in the e-bike community , and their views ? which included that other R&M e-14 users have never had an oil leak ! this is the latest reply I got back from Rohloff with the same spiel about oil leaking , which I fully appreciate , but the ones that I experience are major, all over the brake rota, e-14 and gates belt , on both occasions , note the " that any potential cause of oil leakage has been rectified part " totally reassuring ? after sending the hub back to Germany for two oil seal repairs in two years.

many thanks for your reply.

I am sorry to hear that our good-intentions have missed the target in your case. I can assure you however, that any potential cause of oil leakage has been rectified - there definitely cannot be any major defect which could have been overlooked. Both main seals, all paper gaskets, all screws (due to new sealant), the shifting shaft bearing, its sealant and the driver bearings have all been replaced.

As I explained in previous emails, a SPEEDHUB is not, nor will it ever be, a 100% sealed unit. I am therefore unable to give you the reassurance you desire without deliberately misleading you - and I do not wish nor intend to give you any false hopes.

In my email dated the 17th of November I stated that "oil loss could be normal sweat oil, actual leaks could be due to an array of varying factors including external damage". My reply on the 9th of September included a PDF document which went further into details as to the sort of factors which all play a role in causing "acceptable" leakage (sweat oil). Any of these factors may cause your hub to leak again. It may even arrive back with you from our service department, already having leaking oil (if the logistics companies transported the hub in a horizontal position). These are factors over which we have zero influence.

The SPEEDHUB seals are designed to act as breathers in order to help facilitate air flow in certain circumstances. As air escapes, so can oil. If the seals aren't actually damaged though, then there is nothing we can repair.

I do apologize for the disappointing news.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards

 

[RMK!]

The obvious solution is for R&M to replace your hub (or the bike) with a new one as long as it is under warranty. If they are unwilling to do that, then they are not standing behind their product and that is totally unacceptable. In a situation like this, manufacturers have to err on the side of good customer service. It may be a sellers market right now, but that won't always be the case.

Even though I am not experiencing any issues with my R&M Delite E14, there are enough negative customer experiences noted here that would give me pause when considering another R&M bike.

 

[JVBulman]

The obvious solution is for R&M to replace your hub (or the bike) with a new one as long as it is under warranty. If they are unwilling to do that, then they are not standing behind their product and that is totally unacceptable. In a situation like this, manufacturers have to err on the side of good customer service. It may be a sellers market right now, but that won't always be the case.

Even though I am not experiencing any issues with my R&M Delite E14, there are enough negative customer experiences noted here that would give me pause when considering another R&M bike.

You'll recall your Rohloff has it's own warranty, separate from your R&M warranty, making it Rohloff's problem to fix, not R&M's

 

[RMK!]

You'll recall your Rohloff has it's own warranty, separate from your R&M warranty, making it Rohloff's problem to fix, not R&M's

Actually, I don't recall that ever being mentioned but I appreciate the heads up. I assume then if there is a warranty problem with the Bosch motor, controller or batteries I would need to go to Bosch? Shimano for the brakes, someone else for the headlight?

I guess it comes down to the manufacturer assuming the support responsibility for the product they put their name on. At the premium price of the R&M ebikes, it is even more important that they step up for their customers who I believe, are entitled to that expectation. If R&M does not step up, my Delite will be my last R&M purchase.