Is there a 3rd party higher capacity battery that will fit the Rook/Colt???

[tomjasz]

Older article but still valid.

The Ebike Industries’ Dirty Little Secret – Haz Mat Battery Shipping

Of the 6 e-bike batteries I’ve bought online, I believe that only 2 of them have actually been shipped quasi-legally. This article is about how your vendor is supposed to ship you batteries a…

electricbike-blog.com

 

[Handlebars]

Joe Shmoo buys a battery with nickel coated steel connections, inadequate bridging, a $10 non balancing BMS, looses his house and you have zero culpability or responsibility.

And odd event? Sadly not. A resent post here showed a customer that shorted his battery and the cheap BMS offered zero protection. Another young couple lost their house. And the reseller has an even bigger presence today now with a CA service center and Amazon sales. Still the same construction.

Something seems amiss here,Thomas. Your statement seems to indicate that the same construction of battery is legal in CA, the state where so many things are prohibited because they're "known to State of California to cause cancer" while no other state or country has that regulation.
So the most paranoid state in the world welcomes it.

pitching a cell that might not be the best choice

That can be said of any cell and any seller. The 20A LG cell you just similarly pitched reportedly exploded a vaper's face. Just sayin'

 

[hewstigator]

I would've thought that if the bms sold by Aijiu were not balancing we would've seen someone complaining about really reduced capacity from one of those batteries by now...? It did not take me long while charging to 85% before I needed to rebalance my stock battery. My Aijiu is too new for me to give authoritative experience, but I have been going full tilt on the Colt for lengthy stretches on my commute (uphill of bridge) with no weirdness...?

I think it's a fair point to warn of the pain of returning to a foreign seller, but I for one was glad to hear of others' good experiences with this seller and also appreciate this seller's presence on the forum.

 

[tomjasz]

I would've thought that if the bms sold by Aijiu were not balancing we would've seen someone complaining about really reduced capacity from one of those batteries by now...? It did not take me long while charging to 85% before I needed to rebalance my stock battery. My Aijiu is too new for me to give authoritative experience, but I have been going full tilt on the Colt for lengthy stretches on my commute (uphill of bridge) with no weirdness...?

I think it's a fair point to warn of the pain of returning to a foreign seller, but I for one was glad to hear of others' good experiences with this seller and also appreciate this seller's presence on the forum.

Look, buying China direct can be a good thing. We can save a significant amount of money. I was a big supporter of a company we once bought batteries for resale from. Good deals if I recognized the limitations.

I charge in military surplus ammo cans improved for use as “charge safes” But the reality and the difference between budget packs and Bosch, for example, packs is huge. Safety factors are huge as well.

If a DIY guy understands the limitations and follows best practice, these budget packs are a welcome discount. But let’s be clear. There’s lots of smoke and mirrors. And technology has come up with effective solutions if we know what to ask for. But how many buyers looking for a deal even know what to ask?

This young Chinese sales rep may have a great heart. Maybe even schooled in the USA. Then back to an upwardly mobile Chinese family. Good people wanting no more ir less than any American wants. But they’re isolated from basic responsibilities for failed products. Direct sales derive higher margins. But do nothing to protect the buyer.

Again. I take the risk and with due diligence think I’ve made diy battery maintenance safe and manageable. BUT if we want to grow EBike use, it has to be with properly built batteries and protected by sophisticated battery management systems. The real market force doesn’t want to sweat the minutiae of details. Give them a Bosch Trek that fits and the market will grow.

I dislike Bosch mid drives business model. I’m an original VW Guide For the Complete Idiot charter buyer.. I love building. What I’ve consistently observed, sorry anecdotal from several dozen forums, is the success of their systems. Bosch riders are jumping on and running 7000 uninterrupted miles. No tool boxes, no necessary hours of internet scouting looking for solutions. Suddenly the sticker shock, for me, is complete mitigated.

I should add a preamble noting that Yamaha is reported to be every bit as reliable. I’m glad I no longer support budget batteries. Pay for quality or move along...

I would've thought that if the bms sold by Aijiu were not balancing we would've seen someone complaining about really reduced capacity from one of those batteries by now...? It did not take me long while charging to 85% before I needed to rebalance my stock battery. My Aijiu is too new for me to give authoritative experience, but I have been going full tilt on the Colt for lengthy stretches on my commute (uphill of bridge) with no weirdness...?

I think it's a fair point to warn of the pain of returning to a foreign seller, but I for one was glad to hear of others' good experiences with this seller and also appreciate this seller's presence on the forum.

By now? Jeez, so far you’re the only commentator and your positive report is the sum total of your contributions. Mildly suspicious from here....

Not having a balance function wouldn't necessarily mean a shorter pack life. A knowledgeable user would manage several long charges on a predetermined schedule. I’ve kept several packs in good shape by managing the cell balance “manually”. But a balancing BMS with sophisticated BMS communicating with controllers can do a better job for MOST EBike riders.

Two very different markets and a dozen variations in between make pat answers useless.

Complete Grin kits are the only hub systems to truly compete with Bosch and Yamaha.

 

[tomjasz]

I would've thought that if the bms sold by Aijiu were not balancing

Help me out and point me to the specification?

 

[Handlebars]

By now? Jeez, so far you’re the only commentator and your positive report is the sum total of your contributions. Mildly suspicious from here....

from this thread:
1.

I had ordered online 2 battery’s from a company in China off Alibaba. My wife owns a Rook, the max capacity that fits in the casing is a 20.4 AH Lithium battery, my Shred I ordered a 13.6 AH. This company was a 5 Star company to deal with. The landed costs in U.S funds to my door in Canada we’re $515.00 and $372.00. Shanghai Aijiu Energy Science and Technology Co. Ltd. contact name was Susie Cen. Can’t say enough good stuff about how the ordering process went, many pictures and details.

2.

I just ordered the same two batteries as Robert. Will see what the delivery time is.

For my wifes Rook - 20.4 AH and for my Shred 13.6 AH.

As Robert Indicates, Susie is extremely helpful and ensures everything is clear over many emails. A great experience so far.

3.

I purchased a 48V 17AH battery for my 2017 Rook from Susie of Aijiupower. The battery is about half of the price of the US vendors. On PAS 3, I can ride about 35 miles with 50% charge left. I estimate that I can get about 60 to 70 miles on a full battery. The purchase process has been excellent through emails with Susie and I paid through Alibaba. I requested and got the Samsung 35e battery cells, which Susie sent me confirmation pictures during the battery building process. I got the battery less than a month after payment. I was surprised the shipment was by FedEx from China and tracking provided. Overall, I am happy with the battery quality, riding range, price and buying process through Susie.

4.

I got a Dorado max 20.4 Ah from Susie / Aijiu last week for my Colt and it has been working great.

My commute involves large inclines and I typically do most of my ride at PAS5 and light pedaling. When I charge my stock 10.4 to 80% I end up in flashing empty by the end of the return trip.

With the 20.4 charged to 80% i end up with the battery half full which is impressive considering all of the extra weight of the 20.4.

I'm not doing nearly as many miles as other posters here (I've got a pannier full of tools and locks, and another pannier with my work backpack), only 14 miles round trip but the new battery has exceeded my expectations (assuming the battery meter is linear(?) I would have expected the 20.4 to show more like 40% remaining.)

The only downside which is probably unavoidable is that the added weight of the 20.4 takes some of the teeth off of the bikes' acceleration but it is still plenty fast for my purposes...!

Part of me sort of wanted a Dorado micro so that my Colt would work better with our car carrier but I think my next battery will be another max from Susie and Aijiu...!

 

[hewstigator]

thomas i know that since you're involved in e-bike sales it's probably frustrating whenever you're trying to sell well-vetted, established, brand name gear to someone who walks in talking about "that's way more than whatever [random brand] bike/part i see online"... but i dunno why we're on a thread about which batteries which fit the bafang-fitted surface604 rook/colt, and trying to talk about how people should be riding bosch fitted trek bikes or yamaha fitted bikes. i'm not tryin' to argue that they aren't great products or claiming that my bafang / reention powered bike is somehow equiv or better... and sure, it would be great for ebiking in general if everybody could afford to enter the game with treks and specialized and giant branded bikes but... those of us on this thread are sort of ridin' what we're riding right?

 

[tomjasz]

thomas i know that since you're involved in e-bike sales it's probably frustrating whenever you're trying to sell well-vetted, established, brand name gear to someone who walks in talking about "that's way more than whatever [random brand] bike/part i see online"... but i dunno why we're on a thread about which batteries which fit the bafang-fitted surface604 rook/colt, and trying to talk about how people should be riding bosch fitted trek bikes or yamaha fitted bikes. i'm not tryin' to argue that they aren't great products or claiming that my bafang / reention powered bike is somehow equiv or better... and sure, it would be great for ebiking in general if everybody could afford to enter the game with treks and specialized and giant branded bikes but... those of us on this thread are sort of ridin' what we're riding right?

I ride and support Bafang drives. My pooint was intended to remind battery buyers that some systems are not as complex, and perhaps even substandard. I own lesser quality batteries but understand I’m taking on some level of risk those Bosch and Yamaha systems have solved with com systems and higher quality BMS. Replacing an OEM battery with a China direct pack may fall short in quality. While I work with kit builders everyday typically there aren’t many posting here. This forum seems dominated by those who buy ready made eBikes, not kits. Retention is an empty case maker. A better case but in no way indicates the quality of the pack. My keeping up with DIY forums has taught me that there are problem pack builders. We’re told 1 year warranty but when a BMS goes bad they expect a customer to change out the BMS. Something we find we’re not very comfortable with. Little mistakes can be big problems.

Thank you for the feedback . Your point is well taken.

One day I’ll create a thread showing some of the problem back internal builds. It sometimes worries me deeply!

 

[hewstigator]

all good - i'm with you that most people are likely unaware of just how flammable these larger packs can be (i myself was quite surprised when seeing my first video of a pack spouting flares for what seemed to be an eternity). i suppose i should be investing in a sizeable ammo can as well...!

 

[tomjasz]

all good - i'm with you that most people are likely unaware of just how flammable these larger packs can be (i myself was quite surprised when seeing my first video of a pack spouting flares for what seemed to be an eternity). i suppose i should be investing in a sizeable ammo can as well...!

Just remove the water seal gasket from the ammo can. Best to drill a port hole and use a rubber gasket for the charger lead to feed in without getting cut or pinched. Mine is a 20MM can and will hold two large triangle packs, as pictured. This way at least with a BBQ glove the burned battery can be evacuated. I NEVER charge unattended and have a smoke alarm just above the charging can.

 

[Handlebars]

Cycle Life estimated at 500-700 for the 35E. and with
25A Continuous, 34A Max Burst Current the 35E will give most users better service life than a GA pack.

It might be helpful for Thomas to explain why there is a difference between what Samsung says is max continuous current (8A) and what Thomas says (25A). Is it that a hypothetical BMS is rated 25A and so the 25A is not for an individual cell?

• Brand: Samsung SDI
• Model: INR18650-35E (35E)
• Size: 18650
• Nominal Capacity: 3500mAh typical
• Rated Capacity: 3350mAh min
• Nominal Voltage: 3.6V
• Maximum Voltage: 4.2V
• Discharge Current: 8A Maximum Continuous
• Style: Flat Top

 

[tomjasz]

Yes I did promote my batteries at a wrong section of the forum just because I was new, I'm sorry about this.
Anyone who needs batteries will contact with me by himself/herself.
I did not sell batteries to this gentleman, I did not push him to buy anything.
Also, regarding the cell types I may mention, they're only suggestions or options to all friends, I never force anyone to choose any cells.
What's more, our quality is accepted not only because of the cell type, quality includes all components such as BMS, wiring, case, packing and service etc.
Finally, thank you all friends who always trust me and support me!
You're all warm to me except few people.

ok how about we make peace and I buy a personal user battery from you. I’ve emailed you before this thread. I didn realize you ere the same person I emailed from my work address. I’d like a 36v battery.
10s 2 or 3p pack. 30G would be perfect. How can I pay? 10s 3p 30q would be perfect. PayPal invoicd tomATlivesoil.com
I Show me a quality build and We’ll do more business.
fair?

 

[Handlebars]

There's a good lad.
The 30Q is high drain and quite short lifespan at 250 cycles, eh?
Even though high capacity cells seem to be most sought after, it also seems as though cells with lesser capacity can be better wrt some other characteristics.
What would be the intended use for this type of cell...smoke 'em if you got 'em (harsh use)?

 

[jv34]

Dear All,
I'm Susie who provided the battery to Robert.
Anybody needs this battery may want to know following information:
Reention Dorado batteries can fit many different brands of bikes, as long as the type is the same.
When you check out the "L" is 440 or 505mm, normally you will know if the 20AH biggest capacity can fit or not.
L means the length including the front and back sockets, see attached picture.
Battery with same L can be replaced with each other.
So if the L is 440mm, the biggest capacity for 48V battery is 13.6AH (for 36V is 20.4AH);
if the L is 505mm, the biggest capacity for 48V battery is 20.4AH (for 36V is 27.2AH).
Disharging port options: 2 Pin/ 5 Pin/ 6Pin
Charging port options: DC2.1 (max 3A) / DC2.5 (max 5A) / 3 Pin (max 5A).
Charger recommeded for 48V 20.4AH: 54.6V 4A (3Pin charging plug), with cooling fan, metal case.
My contact details:
Mob/WhatsApp/WeChat:+86 13586917731
E-Mail:[email protected]
Welcome your inquiry!
Susie

Hi Susie,

Just a quick update on my Shred and a Rook battery’s I bought from you this year. I‘m still extremely happy with the purchases...my Shred has over 2440 km on the new battery and is working perfect if zero issues. My wife’s Rook has 1330 km on the new 20.4 ah with zero issues. Also love the quality optional battery chargers we bought made from aluminum housing, fan cooled, nice positive connections with lights and auto shut off. Any body reading this post don’t even hesitate to buy from Susie, first class service, first class product. Regards Robert

 

[Susie.C]

Hi Susie,

Just a quick update on my Shred and a Rook battery’s I bought from you this year. I‘m still extremely happy with the purchases...my Shred has over 2440 km on the new battery and is working perfect if zero issues. My wife’s Rook has 1330 km on the new 20.4 ah with zero issues. Also love the quality optional battery chargers we bought made from aluminum housing, fan cooled, nice positive connections with lights and auto shut off. Any body reading this post don’t even hesitate to buy from Susie, first class service, first class product. Regards Robert

Thank you Robert! You have proved "time tells everything".

 

[Handlebars]

Hi Susie,

Just a quick update on my Shred and a Rook battery’s I bought from you this year. I‘m still extremely happy with the purchases...my Shred has over 2440 km on the new battery and is working perfect if zero issues. My wife’s Rook has 1330 km on the new 20.4 ah with zero issues. Also love the quality optional battery chargers we bought made from aluminum housing, fan cooled, nice positive connections with lights and auto shut off. Any body reading this post don’t even hesitate to buy from Susie, first class service, first class product. Regards Robert

I just ordered the same two batteries as Robert. Will see what the delivery time is.

For my wifes Rook - 20.4 AH and for my Shred 13.6 AH.

As Robert Indicates, Susie is extremely helpful and ensures everything is clear over many emails. A great experience so far.

Hi AltaShred, could you tell me, please, where the controller is located on your Surface 604 bikes? Thank you!

 

[thomasq]

I was about to buy 52V 17.5ah battery from Anny with Shenzhen Jente Energy Technology. But I found this thread and looks like folks are happy with Susie on her Reention Dorado.
Looks like she provides good service, engaging, gives you options, good product and everyone is happy. I think I'll give her a try and pull the trigger. I've been chatting with her on Alibaba and she seems honest and I think she will provide good customer service. I thought I'd never buy a battery without Samsung/LG/Panasonic cells but I'm willing to try the Sanyo 35GA cells. Panasonic has bought Sanyo.
I'll update after I receive and try. Hopefully good results.

 

[tomjasz]

It'll be the typical fishpaper and kapton tape wrapped cells with nickel-coated steel rather than nickel connections. Make sure she upgrades your BMS to one with temp sensing and balancing function. I also recommend buying a spare BMS. They're cheap, and if one goes south, the most common early failure is the BMS, there's no wait for niggling over the warranty. GA cells are well known and subject to various opinions regarding cycle life, but they are good quality manufacture.

 

[thomasq]

Thanks Thomas! I think she'll provide a good product. I'll review when I try new battery.

 

[mrgizmow]

Was very excited to find this thread. Contacted Susie yesterday and made arrangements to purchase 17ah battery. Also had conversation with 604 tech and was given the impression that they have gone to a different battery & controller design. Seems 'our' battery configuration will not be offered by them in the future. Any recent updates as to past Chinese battery purchases generated by this great thread? Take care.