Hydra has landed!

[Lsthrz]

I have the same issue on my Hydra with a Kindernay. I thought it might be due to the small diameter cog on the rear but see that it happens with a full derailleur system as well. I put some 3m vinyl protection tape on the spot but that's not a long-term solution. Aesthetics aside, over time I can see the chain slicing into carbon fiber frame at a stress point which isn't good.

It is a frustrating issue that seems to be a problem with the clearance on the frames.

Wow, this is interesting and troubling @J10001 so you have none of the high gear(s) shifting issues with the Kindernay, but do have the chain wear on the chainstay. Crazy that this is the way the bike is delivered.

 

[Jon A]

Check out the chain cross on my bike:

I agree with the others, if your chainring is mounted on the inside of the spider, you definitely want to start by putting it on the outside and see where that puts you.

Yeah I'm going to be looking for spacers to see if I can eliminate or reduce this issue. I'll probably wrap some vinyl over the chainstay to protect it for now.

Definitely check if your chainline looks the same as Deacon Blues'. Moving the chainring to the outside may reduce or eliminate your rubbing issue.

 

[kwseattle]

Holy crap @kwseattle that chain on the CF is exactly what terrifies me about the tiny tiny clearance I have on my frame on the 50T chainring I have. This is what mine looks like with the rear suspension fully extended (paracord instead of a chain since my new groupset is on the way and this is my backup M620, but you get the idea...) - I've got a whopping 40mm where it crosses the stay! Note the frame is intended for a 184x44/185x45mm shock, but I'm running a 190x50 with a single offset bushing with a 2mm offset, so it's extending the suspension are just a teeny tiny bit more than it would stock, meaning I have less clearance than I normally would. This is on the 11T cog of the 8spd I'm switching out
View attachment 106482View attachment 106483

Butyl tape (think like dynamat) will do wonders to protect carbon stays from chainslap but you probably need something with backing to cover the butyl or it'll collect lots of dirt. I think there's some rubber foam tapes kind of like mouse pad material that are nicer but I've not reached that point yet

@Deacon Blues an 8/9/10 spd cassette is only 1.85mm narrower than an 11-spd, I suspect @Cuz Vinny had to change shifters to accommodate the change in cassette speeds but correct me if I'm wrong Vinny! You should be able to correct the chainline by offsetting the chainring to the outside of the spider - same on KW's Hydra. These bikes should totally be fine with an 11/12spd but the chainring should be more lined up with the middle (#6) cog. It looks like it's time for team WW to invest in a CNC mill and start machining some parts in house! Definitely a serious issue they need to be made aware of though. Warrantying the chainstay U on a rear triangle isn't that expensive, but warrantying a whole frame due to catastrophic failure can be incredibly expensive - which is to say nothing about the medical bills the rider might wind up with! This is why all these parts service guides have the death & serious injury warnings and have your inspection list for every ride.

This brings up the question though... how many other Hydra riders are out there sawing their chainstay off?

Yeah I've got some clear vinyl that I put elsewhere on the bike I'm going to use in a couple of layers in that spot.

I agree with the others, if your chainring is mounted on the inside of the spider, you definitely want to start by putting it on the outside and see where that puts you.



Definitely check if your chainline looks the same as Deacon Blues'. Moving the chainring to the outside may reduce or eliminate your rubbing issue.

After I'm finished messing with my throttle I will take a look! I need to see if I can flip the chainring to the outside, I found a cheap spacer kit which should help as well. I might also increase the sag on my rear suspension or reduce the rebound rate to help.

Since it's raining like hell today and I'm off, I decided to take on the hall effect sensor in the throttle like @Jayaznpride did on his bike. I reused the little board for mounting purposes (I was going to solder the new sensor onto it but I ripped off some of the traces). Once the silicone is dry I will mount it back up and test it.

 

[kwseattle]

If JonA is correct that means your Hydra was improperly assembled probably by a rookie builder.

I have been watching the forum for 5 months and seen many Hydras delivered none reported chain rub on the CF frame only now with the new Hydras.

On the other hand if that doesn't correct the issue, it means that after all the intensive R&D WW had done to deliver a proper bike is basically a waste of time and efforts in their part.

Not even a week and your pretty bike is all scratch up pretty good.

I'm quite frustrated, to be honest. Paid ~$6500 for a bike that was 3 months late, slightly the wrong color, scratched, and eating itself. I'm hoping WW can send me a spare rear triangle (or just the chainstay since it's a two piece assembly) that I can install after I resolve the issue. I'm not sure if the carbon is forged chopstrand, unidirectional, woven fibers, or what, but slicing the outer layer of fibers certainly will cause a stress riser that could become a safety issue down the line as my skill level improves and I start thinking about more intense/advanced terrain. Don't want that chainstay snapping on me.

My chainring is mounted on the inside of the spider - I was going to try and swap it today but I don't have the proper tools to remove the crank arm. Doing some research it seems like there are several different styles of mounting systems, I won't be entirely sure how this one works until I've taken it apart at least once... If anyone has some insight on what tools I'll need and how to pull that crank arm off I'd love to hear.

I put one layer of film over the crank-side chainstay and 3 more layers on top of that where the chain was rubbing. Hoping that buys me some time to fix the issue lol.

 

[J10001]

Wow, this is interesting and troubling @J10001 so you have none of the high gear(s) shifting issues with the Kindernay, but do have the chain wear on the chainstay. Crazy that this is the way the bike is delivered.

If JonA is correct that means your Hydra was improperly assembled probably by a rookie builder.

I have been watching the forum for 5 months and seen many Hydras delivered none reported chain rub on the CF frame only now with the new Hydras.

On the other hand if that doesn't correct the issue, it means that after all the intensive R&D WW had done to deliver a proper bike is basically a waste of time and efforts in their part.

Not even a week and your pretty bike is all scratch up pretty good.

What is the spider? How will it look on inside vs. outside?

 

[kwseattle]

Send a formal request for a replacement part.
Wattwagons is good at honoring their warranty
from what I've seen so far. A member received an entire motor when he could not fix it himself.

I would be bummed too if my new bike is already showing some aging after only a few hours of riding.

Cuz Vinny is the man to guide you with the removal of the chain ring.

After some more research it looks like the Bafang M620 uses the ISIS drive system, so an ISIS crank puller tool will work. Amazon can get me a Park Tool one for $15 by tomorrow. Here's the model: https://www.parktool.com/product/crank-puller-for-splined-cranks-ccp-44

I'll send Pushkar an email regarding the chainstay and a few other things - I need an Innotrace account setup and an invoice with class 3 designation that I can send over for an insurance quote.

 

[scrambler]

What is the spider? How will it look on inside vs. outside?

Your spider may not exactly look like below, but you should get the idea
Let me know if not

 

[loamoaf]

After some more research it looks like the Bafang M620 uses the ISIS drive system, so an ISIS crank puller tool will work. Amazon can get me a Park Tool one for $15 by tomorrow. Here's the model: https://www.parktool.com/product/crank-puller-for-splined-cranks-ccp-44

I'll send Pushkar an email regarding the chainstay and a few other things - I need an Innotrace account setup and an invoice with class 3 designation that I can send over for an insurance quote.

I believe WW uses Miranda cranks which should just be a humble 8mm allen key. Chainring bolts should be an allen key as well - mine are 6mm on one side & 5mm on the other.

 

[Jon A]

After some more research it looks like the Bafang M620 uses the ISIS drive system, so an ISIS crank puller tool will work. Amazon can get me a Park Tool one for $15 by tomorrow. Here's the model: https://www.parktool.com/product/crank-puller-for-splined-cranks-ccp-44

Though before going to that trouble, you might try and see if you can do it without removing the crank. The last time I had my chainring off, I didn't remove the crank--I was able to just wiggle it off (after removing the pedal of course). I have different crank/chainring though so it may or may not work for you.

 

[kwseattle]

I believe WW uses Miranda cranks which should just be a humble 8mm allen key. Chainring bolts should be an allen key as well - mine are 6mm on one side & 5mm on the other.

I think it's pressed onto the splines, I took off the center bolt and could not remove the crank by hand. This tool threads into the center of the crank, then you turn the inner bolt and it pulls it off.

Though before going to that trouble, you might try and see if you can do it without removing the crank. The last time I had my chainring off, I didn't remove the crank--I was able to just wiggle it off (after removing the pedal of course). I have different crank/chainring though so it may or may not work for you.

I was going to try that but realized I won't be able to mount my chainring guard, I just ordered some 2.5mm spacers and longer bolts which I can either use to space out the chainring MORE or keep the guard. If I had ordered two sets of spacers (which I probably should, it was only $7) I could have 5mm of extra space and keep the guard, but then I'll need 15mm bolts and I already ordered 12.5mm bolts lol.

 

[Lsthrz]

I'm quite frustrated, to be honest. Paid ~$6500 for a bike that was 3 months late, slightly the wrong color, scratched, and eating itself. I'm hoping WW can send me a spare rear triangle (or just the chainstay since it's a two piece assembly) that I can install after I resolve the issue. I'm not sure if the carbon is forged chopstrand, unidirectional, woven fibers, or what, but slicing the outer layer of fibers certainly will cause a stress riser that could become a safety issue down the line as my skill level improves and I start thinking about more intense/advanced terrain. Don't want that chainstay snapping on me.

My chainring is mounted on the inside of the spider - I was going to try and swap it today but I don't have the proper tools to remove the crank arm. Doing some research it seems like there are several different styles of mounting systems, I won't be entirely sure how this one works until I've taken it apart at least once... If anyone has some insight on what tools I'll need and how to pull that crank arm off I'd love to hear.

I put one layer of film over the crank-side chainstay and 3 more layers on top of that where the chain was rubbing. Hoping that buys me some time to fix the issue lol.

View attachment 106595

My new Hydra frame rubs in the exact same area as well. Not as severe as yours (yet) but worries me as I expect with the steep trail riding I do that I will be in lowest gears often where chain rub will be the worst. Will be very interested to see how your spacing efforts work out.

 

[slocoach]

My new Hydra frame rubs in the exact same area as well. Not as severe as yours (yet) but worries me as I expect with the steep trail riding I do that I will be in lowest gears often where chain rub will be the worst. Will be very interested to see how your spacing efforts work out.

@pushkar is this a new issue? I've been monitoring the forum for a while and not seen this.

 

[Acme]

Why can’t you put on some frame protection to hide the scratch? Not every bike comes with protection on the chainstay but they do sell it aftermarket because most bikes need it. Life is full of things where there is give and take. If you want a perfect bike that was put out in more than 10,000 units which affords them money to have dedicated people working on quality control please buy a traditional turbo levo etc. Pushkar‘s bikes are not perfect and they are going to take some tweaking. They are however massively powerful and a much better fit for someone who has a need or a want for that.

 

[Lsthrz]

I'm totally fine with a little frame protection and I think some slight spacing up front will help both the chain-stay wear issue as well as the high gear / high speed chain skipping problem. Agree that this bike is all about the motor.

I think it's fair to ask whether this is a new issue and new frame related problem however. Might be good info for @pushkar and the crew at WW.

 

[Acme]

That’s totally fair. Pushkar always wants to improve his product. Mine were the early early models and there was a few things had to be worked out.
I remember when I was about 16 years old my father had some wealthy friends that invited us to the Ferrari club owners picnic. I was talking with a guy who just purchased a brand new testarossa. I was in complete infatuation with the car and he was telling me it was the dirtiest new car he had ever purchased. I think the car was three months old and had already been to the mechanic three times.
For a little perspective this was held at a small ranch out side of Santa Paula, I think only 2 Ferrari‘s showed up on a trailer, including some really cool stuff from the 50s and 60s. There were also three Porsche 904’s that also drove there. One guy had the carburetor top off and was cleaning the Jets. Good memories

 

[kwseattle]

Why can’t you put on some frame protection to hide the scratch? Not every bike comes with protection on the chainstay but they do sell it aftermarket because most bikes need it. Life is full of things where there is give and take. If you want a perfect bike that was put out in more than 10,000 units which affords them money to have dedicated people working on quality control please buy a traditional turbo levo etc. Pushkar‘s bikes are not perfect and they are going to take some tweaking. They are however massively powerful and a much better fit for someone who has a need or a want for that.

I actually already did add protection and posted a picture a couple of replies ago.

I like your analogy with the Testarossa... I drive BMWs and while they're excellent cars, they're certainly not perfect and I've done plenty of modifications to make them faster, better handling, and more fun to drive. With a little bit of extra care and maintenance they can be quite reliable and last a long time.

This bike is like that Ferrari - beautiful, way faster than any other, and built by a small team. It'll take some tweaking to get perfect.

 

[Lsthrz]

Anyone seen video of Pink performing live version of 4 non blonds 'Hey What's Going On'

Did someone die? Nobody posting pics of their WW Hydras.

Ok Romo, I wasn't expecting that. Watched it. Loved it.

 

[kwseattle]

What up!!!

Kw did you solve the chain issue? Is it still cutting into the CF chain stay?
Outland USA sent me incorrect sizes and colour on the $100 Brooks handles for my Hydra.

I ordered black and silver

Nope, I've not gotten any of my parts yet... I just ordered them yesterday lol.

I'm hoping by the end of next week I'll have the derailleur cage and the spacers. I ordered multiple sets of chainring bolts as well in order to make sure I've got the right size to space out the chainring and keep the guard as well.

 

[kwseattle]

Mounted up the Garbaruk derailleur cage... not too bad, but since it was the first time I've ever taken apart a derailleur it took quite a while. This derailleur cage is pretty thin and light, I'm a little nervous it'll get bent at some point but I've never had it happen before so...

I bought some reusable KMC master links so I can swap it out so I'm not reusing a potentially compromised Shimano one. This video covers a very similar derailleur model:

I've not yet gotten to test ride it, but I think I still need to adjust the shifter cable tension a bit. I'm not sure what the benefit of a larger tension pulley is (the ones Garbaruk sells), so I didn't buy one. Excited to see how it helps!

 

[Lsthrz]

Excited to see how it helps!

Us too! Nice work.