External vs Integrated battery packs - which do you prefer and why?

[BillH]

After spending some time since my earlier post looking at new and upcoming 2020 eBike offerings clearly all of the mainstream manufacturers are employing integrating the battery within or part of the frame design on just about every model. Remember I said just about every model, not all .

 

[Ken M]

1st I say if one is talking about semi intergraded and fully that's one thing but talking about fully external that I think should be moved on from for the most part. I think in the long run the fully intergraded ones will be the way to go because it won't be about looks and if it progress as it should some of the cons will disappear and there will be more pros. That being said I think some semi have a very good look to them. It's not really about hidding the battery.

I think the fully integrated batteries is about hiding the battery such that an ebike doesn't look different that what people think a bike looks like.

I do agree with earlier comments that the paradigm shift will happen when ebike designers are not so focused on light weight (that is the paradigm that drove the bike industry for 50 years because it's so easy to quantify). When you add a motor, who cares if each tire is 1000 grams heavier but never goes flat or that a battery is visible yet allows a full assist range over 50km at 50kph.

I think there are two distinctly different buyer mindsets: 1) some that want an ebike but want it to look like what they are use to and 2) those that see an ebike as a solution and want it to best solve their mobility issue (and integrating a battery in a big down tube does nothing in that regard).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

There's very few assurances an integrated battery is going to even be available..... at any price.

There will always be workshops to rebuild one with fresh cells.

P.S. Isn't she beautiful with her semi-integrated battery? No hump. Solid. The battery's very easy to remove and insert. And guess the battery price? 576 Wh for US$550. Almost half of what Specialized ask for their 604 Wh one. Unluckily, the bike is only available in Czech Republic, Poland, and Slovakia, perhaps in Austria.

 

[steve mercier]

Powertube for form , Powerpack for function.

 

[steve mercier]

Except for the word "motor" in the name this bike is about as stealthy as they come . 2 million bikes are stolen in the USA each year, so stealthy looks are not going to protect you.

 

[Alex M]

I'm actually a fan of the external battery packs as they tend to be smaller, easier to swap, and less expensive. They're also often better sealed when being transported out of the bike.

.....I think that integrated batteries can look good, but so can a well implemented external pack. ........

What are your thoughts about external vs. integrated battery packs? Which do you prefer and why?

I think you've answered your own question.
Who cares what somebody might prefer, as long as you can buy what you prefer....
If replacement ease and cost is the priority and looks are not, you choose one, if looks are the priority - you choose another.
IMO, integrated battery should be easily removable for indoor charging or storage - if it's not, I wouldn't buy.

 

[FlatSix911]

This is good subject. I think the primary justification of the integration is to hide that it's an ebike and secondary is the potential for improved aesthetics/cosmetics. I can understand the integration when executed like the Specialized Creo, but when the main tube is just enlarged to the ridiculous point just to put the battery inside that makes no sense to me even if slightly better aesthetics (although I think smooth external batteries look pretty nice and have the functional merits mentioned in first post). I do think the recent trend to have the integrated batteries removed from the bottom of the main tube was a common sense improvement (avoids any issue with lower top tubes which causing less structural integrity impact like the side loaded batteries).

I think what will evolve is something like the motorcycle industry has always been keen to - must make the external elements look nice and it's doesn't matter if the battery is integrated or not. Vintage has large capacity external batteries that look cosmetically interesting. I think that external batteries will have a cost and capacity advantage but an integrated battery with the allowance for an external secondary battery sounds compelling.

I think a lot of this boils down to how you view ebikes in general. I see them as fantastic potential human-scale mobility solutions so I don't perceive that much merit in hiding the battery. There are very few ebikes that are so stealth that anyone that knows anything about ebikes can't tell that it's still an ebike so those that think integration is preventing others from knowing you are on an ebike is just kind of silly.

I agree, an external battery can be made to look integrated with the bike design.

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[Nomad]

I think the fully integrated batteries is about hiding the battery such that an ebike doesn't look different that what people think a bike looks like.

I do agree with earlier comments that the paradigm shift will happen when ebike designers are not so focused on light weight (that is the paradigm that drove the bike industry for 50 years because it's so easy to quantify). When you add a motor, who cares if each tire is 1000 grams heavier but never goes flat or that a battery is visible yet allows a full assist range over 50km at 50kph.

I think there are two distinctly different buyer mindsets: 1) some that want an ebike but want it to look like what they are use to and 2) those that see an ebike as a solution and want it to best solve their mobility issue (and integrating a battery in a big down tube does nothing in that regard).

I think people are focusing on the look thing and fact is there other reason more to do with proformance then looks for the battery to be in the frame.

 

[Mass Deduction]

I think people are focusing on the look thing and fact is there other reason more to do with proformance then looks for the battery to be in the frame.

What performance advantages do you see to the battery pack being in the frame?

 

[Mass Deduction]

I think you've answered your own question.
Who cares what somebody might prefer, as long as you can buy what you prefer....
If replacement ease and cost is the priority and looks are not, you choose one, if looks are the priority - you choose another.
IMO, integrated battery should be easily removable for indoor charging or storage - if it's not, I wouldn't buy.

Oh for sure. I just have noticed a strong trend towards integrated battery packs, and was curious about EBR forum members felt about this trend.

 

[Mass Deduction]

I think an integrated battery looks better, but there's too many drawbacks, from battery range to having to charge on-bike, especially for apartment/condo dwellers.

On-bike-only charging can be a deal breaker, whether they have to store their bike on a balcony, or in a shared space.

This is especially true in climates that see regular temps drop below 10ish degrees Celsius, given the nature of lithium batteries.

This was on the shortlist be my 2nd e-bike...

Luna Fixed Stealth Ebike

The most Stealthy bike on the market, with a hidden battery and discreet mid drive motor... this bike looks like an ordinary road bike but packs a big punch.

lunacycle.com

...except for the small, internal battery. I'd love an easier way to pop it out, both for charging, and for being able to buy multiple spares to optionally go on longer rides.

I hadn't clued in to the fact that integrated batteries can't always be charged off the bike. Huh, good point. You're absolutely right, that would be a total deal breaker for me too. Generally I charge indoors and on the bike, but when travelling I sometimes charge off the bike.

I'm looking to get a hardtail E-MTB, and I was considering two models with the same motors. I ended up deciding on the one that had the semi-integrated/external battery pack because then I could use it as a spare battery for my trekking e-bike. Had I gone for the one with the fully-integrated battery pack, it'd be useless on my other bike.

 

[Mass Deduction]

Totally with @Alaskan on this one. I prefer the look of the integration but much less practical. I can switch my Bosch Powerpacks between different bikes and they are much easier to remove and carry in a backpack.

Now, not shown above is integrated plus external. I am a big fan of modular design (although in the case of this Trek design, I wish the rail system had an optional faux-battery storage compartment/bag similar to the R&M faux-battery in the 2nd photo).
View attachment 44328View attachment 44330

Integrated plus external I can get behind! Awesome idea. I wish this was an option on more bikes.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Bulls give you bikes that are close to the same with external and internal. the price difference is about 600.00 or so. so I chose external so much faster to take on and off and it has a halve so its easy to carry too. though I like the looks of internal.

 

[DougC]

Recently I was at a mountain bike area and a co-worker happened to be there also and as I was getting ready to take off I asked him if he knew the general feeling about ebikes on the single track. He look puzzled at my bike and I leaned it towards me and pointed out the motor. He said no, no one will care. I think particularly if I have to point out to someone that it's an ebike. So yeah, I like the integrated battery. Helps keep attention away from the bike having a little helper motor.

 

[Mass Deduction]

Bulls give you bikes that are close to the same with external and internal. the price difference is about 600.00 or so. so I chose external so much faster to take on and off and it has a halve so its easy to carry too. though I like the looks of internal.

$600? Wow, that's a heck of a premium if they're otherwise very similar bikes. Dang.

The two I posted earlier, the Opus Connect LRT and Connect LRTi, are $380 different. For that $380 you're getting three things: integrated battery, an increase from 418 Wh to 504 Wh pack, and an upgrade from an entry-level 9spd to a mid-range 10spd drivetrain. So that's a reasonable upgrade cost, IMO.

If someone was never going to remove the battery, I'd probably recommend someone pay the extra for the better drivetrain and the higher capacity battery alone for $380. But I'm not that person, I will definitely be swapping batteries sometimes, bringing spare batteries with me on particularly long rides, etc., so an integrated battery is far less appropriate for my uses.

 

[Nomad]

What performance advantages do you see to the battery pack being in the frame?

aerodynamics for one thing.

 

[opimax]

as I sit here just retired, waiting to move to Atlanta at the end of the month and planning a high end bike purchase I went over the 10 bikes with the Bafang monster motor thread. iit would be 1 of 2 bikes, both with the belt as opposed to a chain. The Watt wagon or the Flux. Watt wagon is a little closer to what configuration I prefer but the Flux is internal battery and a look I prefer. If all else were the same but the frame no questions the Flx. I hav not weighed our all my pros and cons since they are not equal and I am really a DD hub motor kind of guy so no decision yet. May look elsewhere at the new Hill Eater or something else (No More Stromers)

the Flx real does appeal to me when looking at them. Extra batteries for Watt are a grand don’t know about the Flux, figuring 3 batteries total could be pricey. Availability, projected service , how the companies actually configure the motor, available accessories and many more items will go into the final choice

 

[BillP]

as I sit here just retired, waiting to move to Atlanta at the end of the month and planning a high end bike purchase I went over the 10 bikes with the Bafang monster motor thread. iit would be 1 of 2 bikes, both with the belt as opposed to a chain. The Watt wagon or the Flux. Watt wagon is a little closer to what configuration I prefer but the Flux is internal battery and a look I prefer. If all else were the same but the frame no questions the Flx. I hav not weighed our all my pros and cons since they are not equal and I am really a DD hub motor kind of guy so no decision yet. May look elsewhere at the new Hill Eater or something else (No More Stromers)

the Flx real does appeal to me when looking at them. Extra batteries for Watt are a grand don’t know about the Flux, figuring 3 batteries total could be pricey. Availability, projected service , how the companies actually configure the motor, available accessories and many more items will go into the final choice

The Watt Wagons battery that is listed for $1000 is the special set-up where both batteries are connected at same time. If you want an extra battery the cost is no where near that.

 

[opimax]

sounds good , do you Know the price of a battery alone?

 

[BillP]

sounds good , do you Know the price of a battery alone?

Pretty sure around $600