The Ultimate Mid-Drive Chain Care Thread

[Oberst]

We learn far more from our mistakes than we do from success.

 

[bob armani]

Let me go off-topic a little bit because I feel I must express my frustration. I should not be allowed to touch any bike on the mechanical side. "A peasant should get some turd instead of a watch" - it is how we describe such people as me in Poland

I thought I installed a 12-speed KMC chain properly. Almost. I didn't notice I placed the Missing Link in the wrong orientation... "The peasant" broke his new chain after a half-mile ride! Repairing the chain with a spare Quick-Link. And what if I hadn't the spare master link at hand?!

I feel miserable.

View attachment 81491
I hope it is properly done now (the upper part of the chain visible here).

Don't be too hard on yourself Stephan. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Happens to the best of us. Most of us have learned something here by your post IMO.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Interesting to find that the link is directional... thanks for sharing

I should have read the user manual that was inside a tight wrapped plastic bag. It was showing the proper orientation of the Missing Link...

When inserted properly, the chain stretch makes the link tighten. If installed wrongly, the force opens the link.

 

[Art Deco]

I should have read the user manual that was inside a tight wrapped plastic bag. It was showing the proper orientation of the Missing Link...

When inserted properly, the chain stretch makes the link tighten. If installed wrongly, the force opens the link.

That's actually clever, quite interesting that stretch tightens the link.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Good news!


Been on 90 km or so gravel-trail over the Bolimowski Landscape Park. The route involved a lot of muddy off-road riding; the new chain kept and worked ideally. Because of the previous master link damage, I had had to shorten the chain from optimum 122 links down to 120; it was within the derailleur tolerance and ensured good tightening of the chain.

That's actually clever, quite interesting that stretch tightens the link.

I could describe that better as "chain tension makes the master link lock in the right position".

 

[Alaskan]

Live and learn.

There is an old yiddish expression:
Vos ken an eyzl visn fun lukshanum?
What does a donkey know from luxury?

 

[ChezCheese:)]

Teflon?? You know teflon is super toxic, right? It NEVER goes away. It is hideous stuff. Just don't!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Teflon super toxic? Good I didn't know my PTFE frying pan from Tefal was toxic.

Bullshit.

 

[onlineaddy]

Teflon super toxic? Good I didn't know my PTFE frying pan from Tefal was toxic.

Bullshit.

PTFE-coated non-stick cookware and toxicity concerns: a perspective - PubMed

PTFE is used as an inner coating material in non-stick cookware. This unique polymer coating prevents food from sticking in the pans during the cooking process. Such cookware is also easy to wash. At normal cooking temperatures, PTFE-coated cookware releases various gases and chemicals that...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Read up and feel free to draw your own conclusions.

 

[almikel]

Last time I removed the quick link to clean my chain I mucked around with circlip pliers/needle nose pliers etc to remove the quick link, and it was tedious/fiddly/time consuming.
After that I decided to buy the Park tool for the job...cost me $40...
Had the quick link off in 10sec...there's a thing to be said for having "the right tool" for the job...

I just use automotive degreaser and an old paint brush to clean the chain when it's off the bike, then rinse with water and let dry.
While the chain is off the bike I remove the rear wheel and clean the cluster, chain ring and derailleur jockey wheels

Re-install the chain noting narrow/wide install on the 1X chain ring.
A drop of lube on the inside of each link and the derailleur jockey wheel bushings, then run the chain through a rag to soak up excess...

I have one of those "on the bike" chain cleaners, but the chain keeper (not chain "catcher") I have that fits my acoustic won't work on my e-bike with its 12mm through axle...I need to get one of these:

Morgan Blue Chain Keeper Thru Axle

Morgan Blue Chain Keeper Thru Axle

www.epiccycles.com.au

The orange wheel simply slides onto the through axle...

I'd much rather have the rear wheel off the bike when cleaning the chain "on the bike" by using a chain keeper, as it's a messy job, and I'd rather keep dirty degreaser away from rotor discs and tyres.

IMHO chain maintenance on a mid drive e-bike is critical - way more important than on an acoustic bike, or a hub drive e-bike, as all the motor torque/stress goes through the chain.
IME a dirty chain on a mid drive e-bike will result in clunky/non-precise shifting way quicker than on an acoustic.

Since owning my e-bike I would suggest:

• clean your chain regularly and lube appropriately...I choose not to lube between chain cleans...but that's just me...I don't like lubing a dirty chain, preferring to clean it first, then lube...but I ride in mostly dry conditions and I clean my chain monthly or sooner - YMMV
• check for wear regularly with a chain checker (<$20) and replace the chain early to reduce wear on clusters and chain rings
• carry a spare quick link...and if venturing far from support, also carry a chain breaker with the "usual" multi tools

Mike

 

[Handlebars]

se a hub motor with a throttle? I can see where you can get a longer chain life with that setup. For those with mid-drive motors and no throttle, not so much.didn't take me very long with my rear hub bike to

Thanks for raising that point.
Soon after getting my bike (rear hub motor), I developed the habit of using the throttle on every start from stop. I think it's a lot smoother on most of the the involved bike parts and human parts if you get practiced on throttle control.
Right now I'm considering putting on a new chain again just to convert to paraffin waxing. The chain is over halfway to replacement anyway.
I want to avoid needing to replace the cassette so maybe I should clean the chain and wax it, instead of doing a second chain replacement and next time replace both.
Now I wonder about the chain ring.
This thread is a good read so far.

 

[almikel]

Digging up a old thread.

I just cleaned and lubed the chain on my mid-drive Giant, then measured with my X tools chain checker and it just fits on the 0.75 side (the X tools checker has 0.75 and 1.0 sides), so time to replace the chain.

This will be the third chain on my e-bike from new, ie I've only replaced the chain once so far (at 0.75 wear), and about to do it again.
The OEM chain and the 1st replacement were both KMC X11 e-bike chains - https://www.pushys.com.au/kmc-x11-11-speed-e-bike-chain-silver.html - AUD$99
The non ebike KMC 11 speed chain is $55 https://www.pushys.com.au/kmc-x11-11-speed-chain-silver-black.html

I get that a mid drive e-bike puts more torque/tension through the chain than an acoustic bike or a hub drive e-bike.

I actually did some maths on it:
Let's say the maximum force/torque I can apply to the pedals is my mass + say 20% when I stand in the pedals and leverage additional force from the handle bars.
Olympic cyclists would way exceed their mass on the pedals from a force perspective - but we're discussing regular cycling here, on e-bikes - we're not smashing out final sprints in a race!

My cranks are 170 mm long, and if I was 100kg, standing on the pedals would give a max torque of 17Nm, and adding 20% through leverage on the handle bars gives 20.5Nm.

The motor in my e-bike has a peak torque of 80Nm + potentially the human on board may add ~20Nm of human torque - obviously mid drive e-bikes need a chain capable of handling this additional torque/tension (~100Nm)...which is clearly a big jump in torque/tension over an acoustic/hub drive!!...
...which would matter, unless normal chains can easily manage this increase?

I've seen posts/Youtube videos where people combine e-bike chains with normal chains - and the e-bike chain wore faster

...my questions:

• is the torque/tension added by a mid drive e-bike compared to an acoustic/hub drive e-bike beyond what a "normal" bike chain can take?
• assuming regular chain cleaning and checking for chain stretch/wear - is it OK to install a regular chain on a mid drive e-bike?
• Are "e-bike" chains just marketing spin?

cheers,
Mike

 

[Stefan Mikes]

is it OK to install a regular chain on a mid drive e-bike?

It is OK.

Are "e-bike" chains just marketing spin?

These are often a way longer than regular chains because many mid-drive e-bikes require long chains*. Otherwise: a marketing thing.
-------
*) -- A long chainstay
-- A 1x drivetrain with a big chainring and a big granny gear sprocket in the cassette.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Digging up a old thread.

I just cleaned and lubed the chain on my mid-drive Giant, then measured with my X tools chain checker and it just fits on the 0.75 side (the X tools checker has 0.75 and 1.0 sides), so time to replace the chain.

This will be the third chain on my e-bike from new, ie I've only replaced the chain once so far (at 0.75 wear), and about to do it again.
The OEM chain and the 1st replacement were both KMC X11 e-bike chains - https://www.pushys.com.au/kmc-x11-11-speed-e-bike-chain-silver.html - AUD$99
The non ebike KMC 11 speed chain is $55 https://www.pushys.com.au/kmc-x11-11-speed-chain-silver-black.html

I get that a mid drive e-bike puts more torque/tension through the chain than an acoustic bike or a hub drive e-bike.

I actually did some maths on it:
Let's say the maximum force/torque I can apply to the pedals is my mass + say 20% when I stand in the pedals and leverage additional force from the handle bars.
Olympic cyclists would way exceed their mass on the pedals from a force perspective - but we're discussing regular cycling here, on e-bikes - we're not smashing out final sprints in a race!

My cranks are 170 mm long, and if I was 100kg, standing on the pedals would give a max torque of 17Nm, and adding 20% through leverage on the handle bars gives 20.5Nm.

The motor in my e-bike has a peak torque of 80Nm + potentially the human on board may add ~20Nm of human torque - obviously mid drive e-bikes need a chain capable of handling this additional torque/tension (~100Nm)...which is clearly a big jump in torque/tension over an acoustic/hub drive!!...
...which would matter, unless normal chains can easily manage this increase?

I've seen posts/Youtube videos where people combine e-bike chains with normal chains - and the e-bike chain wore faster

...my questions:

• is the torque/tension added by a mid drive e-bike compared to an acoustic/hub drive e-bike beyond what a "normal" bike chain can take?
• assuming regular chain cleaning and checking for chain stretch/wear - is it OK to install a regular chain on a mid drive e-bike?
• Are "e-bike" chains just marketing spin?

cheers,
Mike

Up until know I've always used a regular KMC*X chain ($15) with my 750w/120Nm and a 1000w/160Nm mid drives and have gotten very typical non powered bike results with 2500mi - 3000mi out of a chain.
I currently have 2500mi on a KMC*e-X chain ($28) with the 1000w/160Nm motor and the chain is showing no measurable stretch as the 0.75 side of the gauge still sits on its tip.
There are many variables when it comes to chain wear so take from that what you will.
But yeah... a regular chain gives acceptable results if not abused.

 

[stompandgo]

You may not ride like a sprinter, but your bike chain is designed for it. A lightweight high level racer can typically put out 1,000-1,200 watts for 1s at the start of a sprint. A heavier, stronger rider can easily top 2,000 watts for the same interval. The chain is designed for that kind of repeated stress. In contrast, the peak power of my motor is 600 watts.

My bike came with a standard KMC X12 chain, not the e12. I haven't seen anything concrete regarding the difference that would justify the extra cost.