Test ride on a Bikonit MD1000 (Mid-Drive) and HD 750 (Hub-Drive)

[RMK!]

Since you have test driven the MD1000, you plan on doing any upgrades?

I'm going to ride it for a while before making any changes. Some minor considerations are:
Street tires after original nobbies wear out.
Suspension seat post (Thudbuster)
Controller upgrade to increase battery range.

I'm hoping I forget about all of these (except tires) due to the outstanding performance of the standard bike. I'm 6'5" and the Thudbuster will give me another 3"-5" in seat height and that would solve 2 potential issues (fit and comfort). That said, both the HD 750 and MD 1000 were very comfortable and handled great for bikes of that size and weight. It's coming with a rack, fenders and a front light. While the light is a given, I may or may not use the rack and fenders and a decision to use those will be based upon their utility. I live in Northern California so weather isn't a problem.

 

[WhitzATL]

I'm going to ride it for a while before making any changes. Some minor considerations are:
Street tires after original nobbies wear out.
Suspension seat post (Thudbuster)
Controller upgrade to increase battery range.

I'm hoping I forget about all of these (except tires) due to the outstanding performance of the standard bike. I'm 6'5" and the Thudbuster will give me another 3"-5" in seat height and that would solve 2 potential issues (fit and comfort). That said, both the HD 750 and MD 1000 were very comfortable and handled great for bikes of that size and weight. It's coming with a rack, fenders and a front light. While the light is a given, I may or may not use the rack and fenders and a decision to use those will be based upon their utility. I live in Northern California so weather isn't a problem.

Tell me more about this controller upgrade...

 

[RMK!]

Tell me more about this controller upgrade...

Not much to tell. Apparently with the purchase of a USB connection cable for the Bafang G510 1000W Ultra there is software that allows custom tuning the motor. This will likely void any warranty.
There are also several companies that use the Bafang G510 1000W Ultra that have modified the stock controller to "improve performance". Watt Wagon and Biktrix are two and since Biktrix sources their bikes through Leili, that might be an option.

I would only pursue a controller "upgrade" if I could not get 50-60 mile range out of the 30ah batteries on the MD 1000. Payload weight, riding style and speed will have the biggest impact on battery range. Bolton just did a Podcast on this topic that's worth a listen.

 

[Lou B.]

Good luck with your MD1000, I am sure you will have a blast with it, just out of curiosity, the bike/Bafang G510 1000W Ultra has a built in torque sensor, PAS 5 and a left hand trigger throttle, so you have 3 modes of riding the bike? or am I off base? thank you in advance for your feedback!
LB

 

[RMK!]

Good luck with your MD1000, I am sure you will have a blast with it, just out of curiosity, the bike/Bafang G510 1000W Ultra has a built in torque sensor, PAS 5 and a left hand trigger throttle, so you have 3 modes of riding the bike? or am I off base? thank you in advance for your feedback!
LB

Thanks and yes, pedal assist, throttle only via left hand trigger and no power manual bike operation. I'm not a masochist so at over 80lbs with batteries, I won't be riding the MD 1000 with power off

 

[Lou B.]

That would be a real workout pedaling 80+ lbs PS the USB connection cable for the (Bafang G510 1000W Ultra there is software that allows custom tuning the motor) can this cable be purchased from the manufacturer/Leili?

 

[RMK!]

That would be a real workout pedaling 80+ lbs PS the USB connection cable for the (Bafang G510 1000W Ultra there is software that allows custom tuning the motor) can this cable be purchased from the manufacturer/Leili?

No, Leili has nothing to do with this Bafang motor hack hence my likely to void warranty comment. You can find more info here and I suppose elsewhere in the Bafang forum.

 

[Lou B.]

I see said the blind man, so from whom do you purchase the USB cable from Bafang? thx

 

[jharrell]

Not much to tell. Apparently with the purchase of a USB connection cable for the Bafang G510 1000W Ultra there is software that allows custom tuning the motor. This will likely void any warranty.
There are also several companies that use the Bafang G510 1000W Ultra that have modified the stock controller to "improve performance". Watt Wagon and Biktrix are two and since Biktrix sources their bikes through Leili, that might be an option.

Watt Wagons replaces the controller with a different one they call Archon X1, not just a software change. The new controller is much more efficient and smooth, not a cheap upgrade and you have to send your motor to them to swap controllers, but sounds like its a big step up from the stock controller regardless of any software tweaks: https://wattwagons.com/pages/archon-x1-controller

Biktrix does some software tweaks and you can get the cable and do your own, but won't come close to Archon no matter what you change.

 

[RMK!]

Watt Wagons replaces the controller with a different one they call Archon X1, not just a software change. The new controller is much more efficient and smooth, not a cheap upgrade and you have to send your motor to them to swap controllers, but sounds like its a big step up from the stock controller regardless of any software tweaks: https://wattwagons.com/pages/archon-x1-controller

Biktrix does some software tweaks and you can get the cable and do your own, but won't come close to Archon no matter what you change.

So you think it's a good idea to spend $1000 for a maybe it works controller for a net 15% battery range delta?
Despite all the subjective stuff e.g. smoother power application, motor runs cooler etc, the price of this is a bit beyond reasonable but I'm happy that you are so happy with your solution. Thanks for sharing ...

 

[jharrell]

I don't know what it is about Watt Wagons that always seems to set off my BS alarm but it just does. So you think it's a good idea to spend $1000 for a maybe it works controller for a net 15% battery range delta?
Despite all the subjective stuff e.g. smoother power application, motor runs cooler etc, this reeks of snake oil.

By all accounts its not snake oil. The controller is made by a German company Innotrace and also found in Excess bikes among others. You can read testimonials in both Watts Wagons and Frey forums here and elsewhere. Watts Wagons just happens to be the sole US distributor of the controller.

 

[pennybags]

I don't know what it is about Watt Wagons that always seems to set off my BS alarm but it just does. So you think it's a good idea to spend $1000 for a maybe it works controller for a net 15% battery range delta?
Despite all the subjective stuff e.g. smoother power application, motor runs cooler etc, this reeks of snake oil.

That is so weird to read. I’d recommend reading about that on their forum first. WW doesn’t even advertise it that much. It’s literally users singing praises. Multiple users have validated the performance of the update. I think it’s firmly in territory of being a absolutely real. You may not want to hear it but doesn’t make it “snake oil”.
Yes it’s plenty expensive but it’s far better than was actually promised.
I’m personally using the upgraded controller and it blows me away every single time. That being said , you will choose to believe what you believe.

 

[WhitzATL]

That is so weird to read. I’d recommend reading about that on their forum first. WW doesn’t even advertise it that much. It’s literally users singing praises. Multiple users have validated the performance of the update. I think it’s firmly in territory of being a absolutely real. You may not want to hear it but doesn’t make it “snake oil”.
Yes it’s plenty expensive but it’s far better than was actually promised.
I’m personally using the upgraded controller and it blows me away every single time. That being said , you will choose to believe what you believe.

Did you buy the WW controller?

 

[pennybags]

Did you buy the WW controller?

Yeah. Weirdly it’s more efficient than the stock 1000W controller.

 

[WhitzATL]

I’m new to eBikes, so I can play the I’m dumb card. Was $1000 bucks worth a 6 mile range increase? Or what am I missing with that upgrade?

 

[pennybags]

I’m new to eBikes, so I can play the I’m dumb card. Was $1000 bucks worth a 6 mile range increase? Or what am I missing with that upgrade?

That’s one way to look at it. For me it’s about the entire experience. I don’t have to “care” about the motor in the typical sense. I ride it like a true bicycle. It feels more natural, robust, and the firmware upgrades add to the utility. I’ve configured 2 profiles (one for cruising and one for cargo).

I don’t want to spend time thinking about tweaking, fiddling, tuning my motor and still not getting the experience I want. The power upgrade is incredible. The efficiency is just the icing on the cake.

It’s not for everyone as it stands right now (price wise). However once you have it, you don’t want anything else. I’ve had a Bosch (owned gen 4 and returned it), and a Brose(test). This new controller beats the hell out of those any day of the week. The added power is a huge plus.

I’d like to say that it makes the motor part of the bike, boringly awesome. That’s the highest praise I can give to anything. Just doesn’t get in the way of my daily routines.

I hope it becomes cheaper over time. For me, I had a WW customer discount so it wasn’t $1000.

 

[RMK!]

I see said the blind man, so from whom do you purchase the USB cable from Bafang? thx

This video provides an overview of tuning the Bafang Ultra. Despite the decidedly passionate testimonials of forum members, I intend to ride the MD 1000 for a while so that I can objectively determine the value of any tweaks or other more costly "upgrades" I choose to implement.

 

[Lou B.]

you guys are really impressive w/your knowledge/sharing, not kissing A@# here, just complementing!

 

[RMK!]

I find it is good policy to respect the Thread subject you are commenting in. I created this thread to discuss a new product that I discovered in a Bolton Ebikes video last spring. As Bolton Ebikes is located near me, I was able to test ride both models (pre-production) at the Bolton location. At the time, I was riding the bejesus out of a little fat tire folder that I purchased just before Covid-19 shut down ebike production. I wanted a larger bike that fit my 6'5" frame and the Bikonit HD 750 and MD 750/1000's seemed like a good fit. My test ride confirmed that the MD 1000 would be a good option for me.

There are lot of "experts" here who's qualifications are based upon many posts and they love sharing their opinions. Like with many hobbies, brand bias is often a strong motivator. That is why I am really happy to finally be getting a totally unbranded ebike direct from the assembly factory in China. I would hope we can keep the discourse friendly and on topic. I removed what some perceived as offensive comments from a post above. I would ask the offended ones to perhaps understand the subjects of this thread and respect that as well.

 

[RMK!]

here are some more pictures someone sent me:View attachment 68688View attachment 68689View attachment 68690View attachment 68691View attachment 68692View attachment 68693View attachment 68694View attachment 68695View attachment 68696View attachment 68697View attachment 68698View attachment 68699

At long last my MD 1000 is officially shipped. I'm guessing 4-5 weeks for delivery which makes delivery around Thanksgiving. That is 6 months after my initial order. Not to scare anyone off but I'm afraid that will be the new normal for bikes not yet in production. The factory owner was kind enough to send me this photo of my boxed and labeled MD 1000. I think his point was to get me to stop bugging him. Mission accomplished for both of us.