Nyon MY21 mapping use problems (+ post April 2022 software updates)

[peterh_nz]

I use a Nyon 21. As has been reported elsewhere in the forum, the map routing function is problematic to the point that it is sometimes unusable. This is the case for me.

As an alternative, I make a GPX track using other software and import it via ebike-connect to the Nyon device. My intention is to simply display the track in the Nyon and follow it without any inbuilt routing or directions.

The tracks I generate are all along official designated cycle paths which have long been defined properly in Open Street Maps.

In view of the above, in the Nyon map setup I have the "turn by turn display" and "re-routing" options disabled.

The GPX track initially displays correctly but before long re-routing is repeatedly attempted, ignoring the imported GPX track. Consequently inappropriate and unhelpful alternative paths are continually generated by the Nyon.

Is there any way of simply following a GPX track using the Nyon without the above nonsense?

In addition, every time I attempt to use Nyon mapping the attached pop-ups are presented. They are tedious and, in my view, after reading them once are totally unnecessary. Is there any way of stopping them?

Thanks

Peter

 

[fooferdoggie]

turn off rerouting in the map settings. nothing you can do about the warning that I have found.

 

[peterh_nz]

turn off rerouting in the map settings. nothing you can do about the warning that I have found.

Thanks, however rerouting in the Nyon is disabled (turned off). Is there an additional setting relating to rerouting?

 

[Ricky_1973]

I've asked a somewhat similar question here (click!) on this forum... too bad Bosch hasn't replied to this yet other than he wanted to take a look at this

 

[fooferdoggie]

Thanks, however rerouting in the Nyon is disabled (turned off). Is there an additional setting relating to rerouting?

huh I don't use my new nyon for navigation like I do the old one. I turned it off last time I used navigation but thats been a month or so. usually if either one stars doing that stuff. I stop navigation and start it again.

 

[peterh_nz]

I've asked a somewhat similar question here (click!) on this forum... too bad Bosch hasn't replied to this yet other than he wanted to take a look at this

Thanks for the link.

I think part of the problem is, at least in my location, the maps used by the Nyon are not up to date and/or Nyon doesn't recognise all officially designated cycle paths. The source Open Street Map is up to date and recognises all cycle paths.

Are the Nyon maps customised in some counterproductive way?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thanks for the link.

I think part of the problem is, at least in my location, the maps used by the Nyon are not up to date and/or Nyon doesn't recognise all officially designated cycle paths. The source Open Street Map is up to date and recognises all cycle paths.

Are the Nyon maps customised in some counterproductive way?

Bosch Bikes are German, restrictive, and not understanding the world is not limited to European Union... (I'm afraid that they don't understand the world outside Rivers Rhine and Elbe either).

 

[peterh_nz]

In the short term I am quite happy disregarding the Nyon/Ebike-Connect routing function so long as I can display an imported GPX track and follow it onscreen without the mapping app interferring or "know better".

Of course current location and direction of travel displayed also.

Surely importing a GPX file created externally would negate any concern Bosch may have regarding liability (if that's their concern in relation to the nagging popups shown above).

Peter

 

[peterh_nz]

I would like to add to the above discussion on the problems encountered using both the Nyon 2 and Ebike-Connect mapping and routing functions. I hope that this might point to the source of the problem and perhaps lead to a solution.

The test cycle trip is along a path which meanders alongside a new motorway, opened about fifteen months ago. At the time of opening, the cycle path was displayed and active on Open Street Maps (the base map of Nyon/EBC) and implemented correctly in my alternative app which also uses OSM.

Currently Nyon/EBC only recognizes the mid section of the "test" cycle path. I understand the Nyon/EBC map was last updated in October 2020.

For this test I simply displayed the map screen with the position marker. That is, no built in routing nor imported GPX track following.

While riding the mid section of the path the displayed map behaved as expected. That is, the location marker was shown in the correct location moving along the cycle path.

When the section of the path not recognised by Nyon/EBC was entered the marker hesitated for a few seconds and then spontaneously jumped about 100m to the left, to the far lane of the adjacent motorway, and then continued in that lane. This behaviour is bizarre to say the least.

Surely the marker should show the bike's actual location regardless of map features and mode being used ("none", internal routing or GPX track following).

This behaviour occurs regardless of the rerouting setting.

Thankfully the exported GPX showed the actual bike location throughout the test trip.

Clearly an updated Nyon/EBC map would at least mask the idiosyncracy. Has the OSM map been modified by Nyon/EBC to such an extent that regular map updates are not practicable?

Cheers

Peter

The marker incorrectly on the motorway:

 

[NoobNoob]

In addition, every time I attempt to use Nyon mapping the attached pop-ups are presented. They are tedious and, in my view, after reading them once are totally unnecessary. Is there any way of stopping them?

Hmmm I haven’t got those pop ups after the first time I dismissed them.

 

[Vim Fuego]

Has the OSM map been modified by Nyon/EBC to such an extent that regular map updates are not practicable?

Whilst not against the OSM licence, it's a bit disingenuous of Bosch to take Open Street Maps and essentially make private closed changes.

 

[mr_salty]

wow, i read people talking about nyon routing before i upgraded and thought "how bad could it really be?" well, that was foolish...

i used it for the first time today, I looked up a destination on the phone app (not sure if that was the cause of some of the misbehavior?). I was kind of in a hurry (going to an appointment) so I didn't take a good look at the route, just sent it to the device and went. As soon as I left my house it was trying to make me turn in the opposite direction I'd normally go, although certainly you *could* go that way. but, since time was a factor I decided I'd just ride the way I always do and let the Nyon re-route. That essentially never happened, I mean it did re-route but it kept trying to make me go back to the original route or something?

Here, you can see the destination is almost directly in front of me, it's not *quite* on the road I'm already on, but all I need to do is go a few more blocks, hang a right, and it's like the 2nd place from the corner. So, where is it trying to take me???

Of course, that pales in comparison to what happened when I got here. I didn't get a picture of the Nyon because the light was green... but the road splits into two one way roads with a parklet in the middle for a couple blocks and it tried to send me down THE WRONG SIDE! There is a bike lane there but it is *not* contraflow. wow that's bad!

 

[peterh_nz]

wow, i read people talking about nyon routing before i upgraded and thought "how bad could it really be?" well, that was foolish...

i used it for the first time today, I looked up a destination on the phone app (not sure if that was the cause of some of the misbehavior?). I was kind of in a hurry (going to an appointment) so I didn't take a good look at the route, just sent it to the device and went. As soon as I left my house it was trying to make me turn in the opposite direction I'd normally go, although certainly you *could* go that way. but, since time was a factor I decided I'd just ride the way I always do and let the Nyon re-route. That essentially never happened, I mean it did re-route but it kept trying to make me go back to the original route or something?

View attachment 118471

Here, you can see the destination is almost directly in front of me, it's not *quite* on the road I'm already on, but all I need to do is go a few more blocks, hang a right, and it's like the 2nd place from the corner. So, where is it trying to take me???

Of course, that pales in comparison to what happened when I got here. I didn't get a picture of the Nyon because the light was green... but the road splits into two one way roads with a parklet in the middle for a couple blocks and it tried to send me down THE WRONG SIDE! There is a bike lane there but it is *not* contraflow. wow that's bad!

Welcome to the club!

I've previously described the behaviour of Nyon 21 mapping/routing as schizophrenic.

Let's hope the Nyon21 and EBC updates expected in the next week ("beginning of April") resolve the problems we experience.

Cheers.

 

[Vim Fuego]

Isn't this caused by the poor decision to make rerouting start from origin rather than next waypoint?

If you don't pass your origin, it will always try and take you back there. It's a really bad default value, and the engineer or product manager responsible needs to have a very hard look at themselves... It makes the product look way worse than it at is

 

[fooferdoggie]

ya or if you get off track it can get wonky. usually I stop it then restart the ride and it will be ok.

 

[mr_salty]

hm, that's actually interesting... i guess, if I were in a car I pretty much always just want the GPS to re-route from the current location to the destination, although I could see cases on a bike where you may not want that, like a section of trail is closed so you want to detour and go back instead of having it route you on the road... so, i guess it would be nice to have a prompt. I'll have to try the stop and restart next time.

routing me the wrong way down a 1-way street though... no excuse for that, at least it was an area i am really familiar with.

 

[peterh_nz]

Yes, starting navigation by choosing the "from next point" option solves one of the issues. However a number of other idiosyncrasies remain which seriously hobble its map function usability.

Otherwise I'm very impressed with Nyon21. Well, an ambient temperature display would be very handy!

 

[fooferdoggie]

I think I turned off rerouting so even if it goes off you can see the right path.

 

[Vim Fuego]

It sounds like some improvements have been made in this area, lets see when the update lands.

Display of waypoints: In the eBike Connect online portal, you can plan your tours including stop-off points - select up to eight from the list of POIs or add further destinations. These stop-off points, also called waypoints, are now displayed on your Nyon during navigation. Nyon signals you with a short tone when you have reached a waypoint. During the ride, you have the flexibility to simply skip planned waypoints - Nyon will take you to the next waypoint. Please note that you can only plan your tours with waypoints in the eBike Connect online portal

 

[peterh_nz]

I've taken the opportunity to check out some of the recent changes and improvements of EBC and Nyon 21 (v3), particularly relating to mapping.

On Nyon 21 I think the new target screen and the auto zoom functions are useful additions.

Earlier in this thread I have outlined what I have found to be shortcomings in the mapping functions of both Nyon and EBC. So was keen to check whether changes have been made.


Using Nyon 21 with map displayed and using location pointer (not routing nor following a GPX track):

I mentioned earlier how the location pointer on the Nyon 21 map screen spontaneously jumped, from following the cycle path I was on, to an adjacent motorway and tracked along the motorway. This no longer happens on that particular test trip. That's definitely an improvement.

However, I wasn't sure whether the change was due to the updated map or a change in the software logic. To test this, I rode along cycle paths next to large open areas (playing fields) and diverted from the paths towards the centre of the open areas. In all tests the location pointer doggedly remained on the cycle path until I was at least 100m from the path, at which point the pointer jumped to my actual location. The following image shows two of these tests. The blobs on the tracks within the open spaces represent the point at which the location pointer jumped to my actual location (I rode in a tight circle to mark the point).

It seems that some "stick to roads" function has been implemented. I realise this is warranted in some situations. However this is of no value to me and I would rather have the option to turn that function off, as is the case in other software I use based on OSM.


Trip Planning and Routing:

In both EBC and Nyon 21, trip planning continues to result in illogical and inefficient routes with cycle paths seemingly being avoided, with considerable inbuilt determination. The following images illustrate routes produced by EBC compared with OSMAnd, both with the same starting point and destination which are along a contiguous cycle path. Both mapping systems are based upon OSM. (Complete routes and details of the beginnings are shown)

EBC

OSMAnd

As another example, I'm riding on a cycle path and I set Nyon 21 mapping to "take me home". There is then a frenetic attempt by Nyon 21 to get me off the cycle path and onto various streets, including some I'd avoid on a cycle. Logically one should stay on the cycle path which is appropriate and heading in the correct direction.


What's going on?


I'm now wondering if the fact that my bike has a Speed (45km/hr) drive system has something to do with it. Is the speed system set up so that, from a routing viewpoint, it is not allowed to be on cycle paths? If this is the case in Germany/EU because of regulations, it certainly does not apply in New Zealand where speed ebikes can go anywhere normal bikes can.


It would be interesting to hear from other riders who are experiencing problems with the mapping function of EBC and Nyon 21 to see if having normal versus speed ebikes has an influence. Steve Borough, considering the problems you have routing in New York city, is your bike a speed ebike?

William and Stephen of Bosch, I would very much appreciate your comments on this.

Regards

Peter