Nyon MY21 - Initial Thoughts

[fooferdoggie]

Well that would actually be helpful on a long ride if your phone is not immediately accessible because its in your back pocket or backpack somewhere. A subtle, but thoughtful addition.

you will also get a warning when your phone battery gets slow.

 

[Rafaelito]

Hi folks,

Been reading for about an hour and still can't find updated information on this. I just got a new bike a week ago and paid the dealer to upgrade from Purion to Smartphonehub. Terrible mistake since, SURPRISE, the Smartphonehub ejected my phone on a ride and damaged it. Plus the Smartphonehub software has loads of issues. My $1200 phone getting damaged was the last straw and I am having my dealer remove the Smartphonehub and install a new Nyon. I considered a Kiox too, but it sounds like Nyon is a more futureproof solution since it is newer.

But...it sounds like my rides won't sync with Strava or Apple Health? Sigh...that is a big miss. Is that still true? Is there some way to sync with Strava and/or Apply Health? I really would like my Apple Health and fitness rings to take my bike workout

I also paid for my new Trek Allant+ 7s to be upgraded from Purion to Smartphonehub, believing that the Smartphonehub made more sense due to the wealth of information provided and the user experience. Fortunately, the new iPhone 13 Pro Max I purchased to fit the Smartphonehub, got caught by the dongle on its way to the sidewalk when I hit a bump. Of course, it will never work with the Smartphonehub because the hardware is not updated to fit these phones. I have ordered the Nyon Upgrade Kit and plan to install it myself. I am somewhat surprised that this issue is not the feature of Trek or Bosch service bulletins, recalls, or even hardware upgrades from Bosch. Apparently, (I have read here) Bosch has abandoned this platform and left its customers (including Trek and how many end users) high and dry. I also own an Electra Vale Go, outfitted with Bosch Kiox and the experience is much more satisfying, although I fault Trek for outfitting both of these bikes with Alivio derailleurs, which do not perform well (in my experience) with the Bosch kit. I have upgraded my Allant+ to 12 speed derailleur, cassette and shifter and the difference is impressive. I have learned a lot about controllers, software, mounting hardware, and Trek and Bosch. It has been a frustrating process, but also illuminating. One of the bright spots is this forum. This is my first post here, but I have been lurking and learning as I go.

 

[TomWilcox]

I bought my Nyon about 18 months ago and in general it is excellent. Superbly configurable to show anything I want on multiple screens. The nav system has some glitches, but I tend to ride the same rides, so I dont really use it. The Nyon works with the ebike connect phone app and the bosch connect website, which show very similar information. When you finish a ride, the bike recognizes its home WiFi and synchronizes all the data automatically to both the phone and the website. I typically have my apple watch on when I ride, and the data collected is similar although the apple watch doesn't stop when the bike is not moving so averages are slower. I downloaded the new "flow" app, and had to register as a different user. As near as I can tell, it only works on mountain bikes with the 750 battery and the corresponding 5 LED handle bar controller. Ironically stava, and the apple watch connections in "flow" remain unavailable to road bike users. Hopefully, I am wrong. In the mean time, you can convert your epic rides to strava to prove your prowess to you friends in the options menu of the bosch connect website.

 

[Rafaelito]

Thanks for the useful review and info. I use my Apple Watch too, and like the way COBI.Bike recognizes the heart rate and health data. I use the Bosch Connect app with my Kiox based Electra, but will need to use a separate account, I suppose, for the Nyon based Trek. Epic rides and proof of prowess may be aspirational terms for this codger.

 

[jpa2825]

I see that there is a Nyon update, but I can't seem to get it to download and update on my head unit. Any suggestions?

Connecting only via WiFi as I have never been able to get my iPhone to connect to the Nyon via BT.

Also, comparing Nyon to Strava consistently shows significantly more total climbing elevation on the Nyon. It's very noticeable on 40+ mile rides.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Also, comparing Nyon to Strava consistently shows significantly more total climbing elevation on the Nyon. It's very noticeable on 40+ mile rides.

I think Nyon maps are missing the elevation data (Nyon is not alone there: Wahoo ELEMNT Roam is missing the same data while the Bolt v2 has them). You certainly know how to Correct Elevation in Strava.

 

[AlanDB]

Doesn't Nyon use a barometric altimeter rather than map elevation data to calculate elevation change? I am pretty sure my first generation Nyon does because I need to calibrate it with the starting elevation every time I start a ride.

 

[retiredNH]

Doesn't Nyon use a barometric altimeter rather than map elevation data to calculate elevation change? I am pretty sure my first generation Nyon does because I need to calibrate it with the starting elevation every time I start a ride.

Seems so. I don't need to calibrate.

 

[retiredNH]

I also paid for my new Trek Allant+ 7s to be upgraded from Purion to Smartphonehub, believing that the Smartphonehub made more sense due to the wealth of information provided and the user experience. Fortunately, the new iPhone 13 Pro Max I purchased to fit the Smartphonehub, got caught by the dongle on its way to the sidewalk when I hit a bump. Of course, it will never work with the Smartphonehub because the hardware is not updated to fit these phones. I have ordered the Nyon Upgrade Kit and plan to install it myself. I am somewhat surprised that this issue is not the feature of Trek or Bosch service bulletins, recalls, or even hardware upgrades from Bosch. Apparently, (I have read here) Bosch has abandoned this platform and left its customers (including Trek and how many end users) high and dry. I also own an Electra Vale Go, outfitted with Bosch Kiox and the experience is much more satisfying, although I fault Trek for outfitting both of these bikes with Alivio derailleurs, which do not perform well (in my experience) with the Bosch kit. I have upgraded my Allant+ to 12 speed derailleur, cassette and shifter and the difference is impressive. I have learned a lot about controllers, software, mounting hardware, and Trek and Bosch. It has been a frustrating process, but also illuminating. One of the bright spots is this forum. This is my first post here, but I have been lurking and learning as I go.

I'm a bit more cynical than you regarding the Nyon future ever since seeing Bosch trumpet the SmartphoneGrip and Kiox 300 for their new Smart System. My take (pure speculation, but based on my experience in a different industry) in retrospect is that Bosch decided some time ago to use the cobi.bike system that they acquired for their new Smart system, which is why they orphaned the smartphone hub. They've now decided to focus on Kiox as their alternative display, hence the Kiox 300.
Note that it appears the Nyon won't even work with the Smart system. I doubt it ever will, and I doubt they'll put in any more development work into Nyon. IDK because Nyon does what I want already, and seems bug free enough for me, since I don't use it for navigation. Sure, I'd like some changes, but since when do developers ever listen to customers? Have you ever been asked?

 

[Alaskan]

Sure, I'd like some changes, but since when do developers ever listen to customers? Have you ever been asked?

I was asked, last year, if I could take a few hours to talk future product development and improvement with the USA technical service staff for a newer ebike product line of equipement developed by a century old German transportation manufacturer...Robert Bosch.

I have seen some, but certainly not all, of the items we disucsssed in subsequent updates.

 

[retiredNH]

I was asked, last year, if I could take a few hours to talk future product development and improvement with the USA technical service staff for a newer ebike product line of equipement developed by a century old German transportation manufacturer...Robert Bosch.

I have seen some, but certainly not all, of the items we disucsssed in subsequent updates.

I suspect they identified you as a "thought leader" maybe based on your activities on these boards?

 

[Alaskan]

I suspect they identified you as a "thought leader" maybe based on your activities on these boards?

You are probably right. I must say, they asked good questions, got into the details and even implemented some of the things we discussed. They even were open about some of the impediments getting things done on products in the North American market as it is such a small part of the ebike division sales, probably less than 10% as compared with European sales.

 

[retiredNH]

Alaskan, you can really see the European focus in cobi.bike, with Rydies, which has no value in N. America but can't even be deleted. Some of their web materials aren't translated either. I suspect this will change though, once supply chains recover. I doubt our volume will ever come close to Europe, though, given our lower population density and an urban geography that is so car centric. Then there's the fascination here with high powered "bikes" that are little more than small motorcycles with pedals that are never used.

 

[TomWilcox]

The irony is that Europe has all the bikes, but they are restricted to 20 mph. This makes the Trek Bosch bikes unusual on both accounts. Many other bike companies just import the european bikes with their smaller and less powerful motors. I have ridden with e-bike riders that crap out at 20 mph just as the riding gets tough, and its not something I want to have to resort to in the future. Evan at this point, Trek only has one Bosch road bike for sale. Lets hope that the US market can sustain these great bikes.

 

[BlackHand]

you can really see the European focus in cobi.bike, with Rydies, which has no value in N. America but can't even be deleted.

You've mentioned this many times, and it doesnt make much sense to me. Rydies is a module(screen) that you can choose to activate or not. Complaining about deleting it is akin to me complaining that Cobi has a screen where I can switch the app to metric units instead of imperial - also useless in USA.

It's pretty standard for open source apps to have plugins or add-ons that are localized but available to anyone who wants to try them.

BTW- Bosch did solicit feedback from several users last year on their displays

 

[Alaskan]

The irony is that Europe has all the bikes, but they are restricted to 20 mph. This makes the Trek Bosch bikes unusual on both accounts. Many other bike companies just import the european bikes with their smaller and less powerful motors. I have ridden with e-bike riders that crap out at 20 mph just as the riding gets tough, and its not something I want to have to resort to in the future. Evan at this point, Trek only has one Bosch road bike for sale. Lets hope that the US market can sustain these great bikes.

Class 3 28mph bikes are availble and legal in some European countries. In most cases registration and insurance is requires and the bikes are not allowed on bike paths but rather confined to the roadways.

Also Trek has two different e-road bikes, the domane HP with Bosch speed motor (about 6 lbs heavier) and Domane LT with Fazua motor assist limited to 20mph

It looks like Trek dropped the HP for 2022, too bad as it was a great bike and the LT is quite light on torque and battery power.

 

[retiredNH]

You've mentioned this many times, and it doesnt make much sense to me. Rydies is a module(screen) that you can choose to activate or not. Complaining about deleting it is akin to me complaining that Cobi has a screen where I can switch the app to metric units instead of imperial - also useless in USA.

It's pretty standard for open source apps to have plugins or add-ons that are localized but available to anyone who wants to try them.

BTW- Bosch did solicit feedback from several users last year on their displays

If there's a way to not activate rydies, it escaped me. But the smartphone hub is history for me now, so it doesn't matter.
Cobi.bike is still open source? Where is this documented?

 

[Rafaelito]

Tech is always a moving target and Smartphone hub, anyway, was never updated for newer-bigger-heavier smartphones that came out in the year of its introduction. That it is sold with current production ebikes, without disclaimer (save the “Made for Apple” text on a plastic dongle bag, which lists zero current or even last year’s phones), has resulted in numbers of broken phones and pissed off end users. Bosch and Trek need to step up rather than stick it to chagrined LBSs.

I'm a bit more cynical than you regarding the Nyon future ever since seeing Bosch trumpet the SmartphoneGrip and Kiox 300 for their new Smart System. My take (pure speculation, but based on my experience in a different industry) in retrospect is that Bosch decided some time ago to use the cobi.bike system that they acquired for their new Smart system, which is why they orphaned the smartphone hub. They've now decided to focus on Kiox as their alternative display, hence the Kiox 300.
Note that it appears the Nyon won't even work with the Smart system. I doubt it ever will, and I doubt they'll put in any more development work into Nyon. IDK because Nyon does what I want already, and seems bug free enough for me, since I don't use it for navigation. Sure, I'd like some changes, but since when do developers ever listen to customers? Have you ever been asked?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The irony is that Europe has all the bikes, but they are restricted to 20 mph.

They are restricted to 15.5 mph (25 km/h).

Many other bike companies just import the european bikes with their smaller and less powerful motors.

What makes Bosch E-Bikes unusual is a given batch of motors is made specifically for North America, and another batch is restricted to Europe/Australia. A European 25 km/h Bosch motor cannot be switched to American 20 mph Class 1 or Canadian 32 km/h limit. Motors of some other brands can be switched between regions by the distributor, making the imports easier.

Class 3 28mph bikes are availble and legal in some European countries. In most cases registration and insurance is requires and the bikes are not allowed on bike paths but rather confined to the roadways.

Not exactly. The European 45 km/h (28 mph) e-bikes belong to a type-approved class called L1e-B, and are equipped as mopeds. These conform to the U.S. Class 3 specification, which is far less restrictive. With some other motor brands, it is enough to switch them from 25 km/h to 32 kph to make them compliant with the Canadian law, or to reset the speed limiter from 25 km/h to 28 mph to make them U.S. Class 3. That's why the same road e-bike of a certain brand will cut the motor off at 25 km/h in Europe but will be a Class 3 bike in the United States.

There is no doubt the Bosch Performance Speed Line motor is both L1e-B and Class 3 capable. What about the CX motor? Can it work as Class 3 in the United States?

 

[BlackHand]

If there's a way to not activate rydies, it escaped me. But the smartphone hub is history for me now, so it doesn't matter.
Cobi.bike is still open source? Where is this documented?

Yeah, it's pretty much a moot point but here