Nyon MY21 - Initial Thoughts

[SteveBorough]

If you need navigation and live in the US, go kiox and a decent phone or nav mount. Nyon nav in the US is abysmal and there is no indication from Bosch it will be will be revamped (entirely) Nyon will also not charge your phone. Although newer, I fear Nyon is a lame duck as Bosch is pushing their new platform and will likely sunset all existing tech soon.

 

[DaddyBigas]

One of the few things the smartphone hub does OK is sync with Strava. Software issues? Yes. Too bad Bosch isn't listening. But heck, as long as OEMs (that's how I got mine - had no choice) foist them on customers, the smartphone hub will live on. I suspect OEMs get them very cheaply. After all, there's little to the naked smartphone hub, just a tiny low cost display, and probably a small microcontroller. Most of the electronics are in the controller/motor/DU I suspect.

Yup, I think you are right on. The Strava sync is pretty good with the hub. I did have a couple of issues but I think it was a fluke. I just read the reviews of the app used for the Kiox and Nyon and the developers are saying that Apple Health integration is coming soon. So hopefully they are truthful and it will come. That would be awesome!

The new Flow app has integration already, but the Flow app is just for the newest stuff (Kiox 300, Smart System) coming out next year I believe. So Nyon it is for me I guess.

I know Bosch is a German company, but they need to be a better job supporting the USA both in app support and documentation/videos.

Thanks for the response....I will post back with an update once my new Nyon is installed.

 

[DaddyBigas]

If you need navigation and live in the US, go kiox and a decent phone or nav mount. Nyon nav in the US is abysmal and there is no indication from Bosch it will be will be revamped (entirely) Nyon will also not charge your phone. Although newer, I fear Nyon is a lame duck as Bosch is pushing their new platform and will likely sunset all existing tech soon.

Thanks for the response, Steve. Since the new stuff (the Smart System) is actually different hardware it cannot replace the existing stuff for all existing drive systems out there. In other words, the Kiox 300 only works with Smart System drives, which are different from all the existing Gen 4 (and prior) systems out there. I do agree with you that ultimately that is where they want to be. But I don't think they can sunset it anytime soon given the number of current drive systems out there and still being sold. So regardless of what Bosch does with the Kiox and Nyon, they will always be the most advanced system my bike can support (Performance Line CX).

I actually don't care much about navigation. I am more interested in the fitness tracking and data display. The Nyon can display more panels on a single screen than the Kiox so that was my deciding factor. Honestly, both the Kiox and Nyon are overkill for me, but I love gadgets, customizations, and data! Since Garmin cannot tap into the metrics from the bike drive system (user and motor watts, cadence, speed, etc.), and since the Nyon will allow me to play with the motor assist graphs, I think it probably fits me best.

I do like the smaller size of the Kiox better though. But here is what scares me most about the Kiox. The last straw for me with the Smartphonehub is that it ejected my nice phone out onto the pavement on a ride. The Kiox is only attached via magnets....so...I don't trust those magnets to not eject the Kiox too. I know the Kiox has a screw that can be used to permanently mount it, but then I cannot remove the head unit. So another plus for the Nyon for me is that the Nyon has a actual latch docking mechanism.

 

[SteveBorough]

Thanks for the response, Steve. Since the new stuff (the Smart System) is actually different hardware it cannot replace the existing stuff for all existing drive systems out there. In other words, the Kiox 300 only works with Smart System drives, which are different from all the existing Gen 4 (and prior) systems out there. I do agree with you that ultimately that is where they want to be. But I don't think they can sunset it anytime soon given the number of current drive systems out there and still being sold. So regardless of what Bosch does with the Kiox and Nyon, they will always be the most advanced system my bike can support (Performance Line CX).

I actually don't care much about navigation. I am more interested in the fitness tracking and data display. The Nyon can display more panels on a single screen than the Kiox so that was my deciding factor. Honestly, both the Kiox and Nyon are overkill for me, but I love gadgets, customizations, and data! Since Garmin cannot tap into the metrics from the bike drive system (user and motor watts, cadence, speed, etc.), and since the Nyon will allow me to play with the motor assist graphs, I think it probably fits me best.

I do like the smaller size of the Kiox better though. But here is what scares me most about the Kiox. The last straw for me with the Smartphonehub is that it ejected my nice phone out onto the pavement on a ride. The Kiox is only attached via magnets....so...I don't trust those magnets to not eject the Kiox too. I know the Kiox has a screw that can be used to permanently mount it, but then I cannot remove the head unit. So another plus for the Nyon for me is that the Nyon has a actual latch docking mechanism.

Yes, I'm very aware of the entire new ecosystem, which is all the more frustrating and telling that Nyon is "legacy"

Kiox magnets are beyond secure and unless you take a tumble, will stay put. Smartphone Hub is a janky spring latch and not even comparable. Keep in mind, the ability to adjust motor assist is a pay feature and turbo is the absolute max on all settings but you can always tweak to lesser stats on custom profiles. You can also only use one set of profiles (default or custom) at a time without going back into settings and switching which you are using while NOT riding. IMO a proper health tracker provides much more data than any of these bike systems, you can always manually calibrate user watts on either system with your trusted health platform but neither system is perfect, Nyon just has much more broken for me than the simpler kiox, which allows you to charge any purpose-built health or nav gadget you want, including your phone.

 

[DaddyBigas]

Yes, I'm very aware of the entire new ecosystem, which is all the more frustrating and telling that Nyon is "legacy"

Kiox magnets are beyond secure and unless you take a tumble, will stay put. Smartphone Hub is a janky spring latch and not even comparable. Keep in mind, the ability to adjust motor assist is a pay feature and turbo is the absolute max on all settings but you can always tweak to lesser stats on custom profiles. You can also only use one set of profiles (default or custom) at a time without going back into settings and switching which you are using while NOT riding. IMO a proper health tracker provides much more data than any of these bike systems, you can always manually calibrate user watts on either system with your trusted health platform but neither system is perfect, Nyon just has much more broken for me than the simpler kiox, which allows you to charge any purpose-built health or nav gadget you want, including your phone.

Ah, I didn't realize you actually have a Nyon. Have you had a Kiox as well? I hope I didn't make a mistake having them order a Nyon. I could have then change it, but I hate to keep running them in circles.

I probably should have just stuck with the Purion and then put my Garmin on the bike. LOL

Are other features, other than Nav, on the Nyon also broken?

 

[ava1ar]

Is there some way to sync with Strava

Nyon syncs everything to the ebike-connect.com and you can export rides to Strava there (and only there, i.e. not from the app). Also, it looks like there is no auto-sync functionality - after ride you need to go and sync it manually.
SmartphoneHub in this aspect was much better, since it did the Strava upload automatically and directly from phone.

 

[peterh_nz]

I originally had the Kiox display on my bike. It was easily read, functional and reliable however in the end I decided that I would benefit from the custom assist levels of the Nyon21 and the more extensive range of parameters that can be displayed in a customized layout.

Apart from the Nyon21/EBC routing function the Nyon21 has met my expectations, and then some.

As I wrote earlier in this thread: "Actually, for all other Nyon21 functions (ie non mapping) I give it a definite 10/10. Well designed, informative and functional."

Notes added:

Regarding the "health" related parameters, the built in calories and HRM are reliable and meet my needs.

The Nyon21 now follows (without "interfering") imported GPX tracks to keep you on your path. It is good enough that I have removed my mobile phone mount from the handlebar as I no longer need it for navigation (and therefore don't need to charge it onboard during long trips).

Switching between custom and standard assist profiles while out riding requires a stop of less than 20 seconds.

Cheers

Peter

 

[SteveBorough]

Ah, I didn't realize you actually have a Nyon. Have you had a Kiox as well? I hope I didn't make a mistake having them order a Nyon. I could have then change it, but I hate to keep running them in circles.

I probably should have just stuck with the Purion and then put my Garmin on the bike. LOL

Are other features, other than Nav, on the Nyon also broken?

Yes, I "upgraded" from Kiox to Nyon. For me, with nav broken, I wish I didn't. I'd love to switch back to my mounted phone for navigation but the USB out on Nyon (as opposed to Kiox) doesnt charge devices, so I'm stuck with tucking my phone in a pocket and using my earbuds for turn-by-turn audio prompts with the screen off to saves some battery.

For me, everything else on Nyon works as advertised, however, other than a smaller screen, Kiox does 95% of what I can do with Nyon, plus it charged my phone and is cheaper to replace. Nyon can map where I've gone more seamlessly since Kiox requires your phone for this. Lastly, default motor profiles work fine for me and the principle of paying an additional fee for this feature is insulting.

 

[fooferdoggie]

apple health interaction is not a real useful thing. apple wont accept the ride as a bike ride and put it towards your exercise. it wont even do it with my garmin. I have to have it sync with strava to get the data into health as exercise.

Nyon syncs everything to the ebike-connect.com and you can export rides to Strava there (and only there, i.e. not from the app). Also, it looks like there is no auto-sync functionality - after ride you need to go and sync it manually.
SmartphoneHub in this aspect was much better, since it did the Strava upload automatically and directly from phone.

this was a huge disappointment for me but then realized that rides would end up segmented if housetop for any length of time. I had a garmin already so it does that job pretty well.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

apple health interaction is not a real useful thing. apple wont accept the ride as a bike ride and put it towards your exercise. it wont even do it with my garmin. I have to have it sync with strava to get the data into health as exercise.

this was a huge disappointment for me but then realized that rides would end up segmented if housetop for any length of time. I had a garmin already so it does that job pretty well.

So Steve: Your rides in Strava come from your Garmin or Nyon?

 

[peterh_nz]

apple health interaction is not a real useful thing. apple wont accept the ride as a bike ride and put it towards your exercise. it wont even do it with my garmin. I have to have it sync with strava to get the data into health as exercise.

this was a huge disappointment for me but then realized that rides would end up segmented if housetop for any length of time. I had a garmin already so it does that job pretty well.

In EBC you can view an overview or aggregate of all segments of the day's trip (or whatever interval you choose), as though it's non-segmented.

If you export to Strava that trip, rather than the individual segments, does it stay aggregated in Strava?

Peter

 

[fooferdoggie]

So Steve: Your rides in Strava come from your Garmin or Nyon?

the garmin its fast and easy since I already hand it. I found strava doesn't to seem to use the watts average the nyon records anyway. I dont know if thats the ebbed connect thing or strava.

 

[fooferdoggie]

In EBC you can view an overview or aggregate of all segments of the day's trip (or whatever interval you choose), as though it's non-segmented.

If you export to Strava that trip, rather than the individual segments, does it stay aggregated in Strava?

Peter

sort of but it does not look quite the same last time I tested it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I found strava doesn't to seem to use the watts average the nyon records anyway.

It is because none of Bosch displays is ANT+ compatible.

 

[ava1ar]

It is because none of Bosch displays is ANT+ compatible.

What is the connection between not reporting watt average and absence of ANT+? With Nyon ANT+ is not actually needed, since bike
already has all main sensors built-in, except HR, which is easy to connect via Bluetooth.

 

[fooferdoggie]

What is the connection between not reporting watt average and absence of ANT+? With Nyon ANT+ is not actually needed, since bike
already has all main sensors built-in, except HR, which is easy to connect via Bluetooth.

more likely strava just not setup to read that method of power bosch uses. but t could be just a strava thing too.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What is the connection between not reporting watt average and absence of ANT+? With Nyon ANT+ is not actually needed, since bike
already has all main sensors built-in, except HR, which is easy to connect via Bluetooth.

It is because ANT+ e-bike systems deliver power, cadence, speed/distance, battery level, and Assist Mode as direct input to bike GPS computers, and the latter know how to talk to Strava. Including the ambient temperature for the ride!

The capabilities of a Bluetooth/ANT+ compatible e-bike related to Strava.

 

[peterh_nz]

more likely strava just not setup to read that method of power bosch uses. but t could be just a strava thing too.

I've noticed EBC exports Nyon21 Watt data in Garmin TCX files. Seems strange it doesn't do the same for Strava files.

But, as you say, could be a Strava anomaly.

Can anyone view the raw data in a EBC exported Strava file?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

But, as you say, could be a Strava anomaly.

Sorry to say but Strava is one big anomaly itself... I watch the Strava Forum. People come with so many excellent ideas to improve Strava and nothing happens to the Strava development really.

 

[ava1ar]

The capabilities of a Bluetooth/ANT+ compatible e-bike related to Strava.

This is just a way how bike export (or not export) the data to the external devices. Bosch has one approach, Specialized - another. Both have pros and cons. Honestly, I like Bosch Connect portal a lot - thinking about cancelling my Strava premium, since I have better (and more precise) data on Bosch Connect versus Strava and I don't care about Strava social capabilities at all.