My Thoughts on Mid Drive..Hub Drive and Throttle

[FlatSix911]

Based on the specs Court puts in his reviews, I estimate the proportion of rear sprockets 46 & larger on e-bikes to be 1:100000. On the page today there were many 28's, a couple of 32's and a 36. One $5900 Bulls copperhead MTB had a 52 tooth rear sprocket. So does HonoraryOrange have a top end MTB that multiplies torque with 46:52 or whatever?

Interesting... almost every real mountain bike Court reviewed has a 46 and larger rear sprocket... YMMV

Full Suspension Electric Bike Reviews | ElectricBikeReview.com

This type of electric bike has front and rear suspension elements to improve comfort and handling. Since ebikes tend to ride faster and further than non-electric bicycles, suspension has been added to many on-road models that are used for commuting type applications. In the past, most full...

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[Feliz]

Interesting... almost every real mountain bike Court reviewed has a 46 and larger rear sprocket... YMMV

Full Suspension Electric Bike Reviews | ElectricBikeReview.com

This type of electric bike has front and rear suspension elements to improve comfort and handling. Since ebikes tend to ride faster and further than non-electric bicycles, suspension has been added to many on-road models that are used for commuting type applications. In the past, most full...

electricbikereview.com

Correct, real mountain bikes, not fat tire bikes, have a large sprocket either side of 50, at least 46.

 

[Mass Deduction]

I mostly ride without power, so the bike left with 12 lb hub+battery feels just like the 75 lb steel bike I had before I bought an aluminum frame. But if the wind is in my face, I've already had 3 hours of pulse >140 , I'm too hot and there are 10 more miles of this, I turn on the motor & let it drag me home. I'm on the couch quicker than calling a taxi.

I have a customer who bought an e-bike and rides to work round-trip (about 30 km) with the assist off the entire way, except for one particularly bad hill where she turns it on, then off again once she crests that hill. So one hill is easier, but for the entire rest of her commute she's riding a heavier bike at a higher level of intensity than if she had a muscle bike. Overall I bet she burns more calories than if she rode a muscle bike the entire way, and yet she wouldn't ride a muscle bike the whole way as that one hill is so unappealing to her.

When she first bought the bike she rode with assist the whole way, but gradually as her fitness improved she reduced the assist again and again until she was barely using it. She's an inspiration, IMO!

 

[Mass Deduction]

Correct, real mountain bikes, not fat tire bikes, have a large sprocket either side of 50, at least 46.

Agreed. If we're talking an E-MTB from a company that is also a well known and respected maker of mountain muscle bikes (Kona, Norco, Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale, BMC, etc.) their E-MTBs are highly likely to have a huge range in the rear.

I've also noticed a trend towards more of that in the e-road, e-hybrid, e-crosstrail, etc. Bikes like the Haibike Race S 6.0 road bike, the BMC Alpenchallenge AMP Cross crosstrail bike, and the Raleigh Tamland iE gravel bike come to mind.

 

[Toomanycats]

Agreed. If we're talking an E-MTB from a company that is also a well known and respected maker of mountain muscle bikes (Kona, Norco, Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale, BMC, etc.) their E-MTBs are highly likely to have a huge range in the rear.

I've also noticed a trend towards more of that in the e-road, e-hybrid, e-crosstrail, etc. Bikes like the Haibike Race S 6.0 road bike, the BMC Alpenchallenge AMP Cross crosstrail bike, and the Raleigh Tamland iE gravel bike come to mind.

My Raleigh Lore has an 11-42, and as I live in hilly terrain, I use the bigger gears all the time. I call them “dessert plate” cassettes. If my derailleur can handle replacing the 42 with a 46 when the time comes, I’ll go for it. Just means more I can explore.

 

[Alaskan]

My first ebike was a Cube Touring Hybrid exc 500 with Bosch CX motor and Shimano XT8000 11 speed derailleur/cassette. The cassette gear range was 11-42 . I quickly found myself frustrated with the assist cut off at 20mph. As it was a used bike, I put a Bikespeed RS speed delimting dongle on the motor. In order take advantage of the added speed capability I found that I needed to increase the number of teeth on the front chain ring from 15 to 18. This gave me the ability to ride at 25 mph at an efficient and comfortable cadence. The only problem is that it reduced the low end torque of the largest rear sprocket. I live halfway up a hill that starts at a 7 percent grade with the final two blocks being 17%. In order to recapture the low end, climbing ability I replaced the original cassette with a 11-46. Mission accomplished, better top end speed with solid hill climbing ability. Fast forward 2 years and now I also have a Riese & Muller Delight Mountain with the same groupset. I did the identical modifications making this bike a more lively, sporty performer.

When the 11-46 cassette needs to be replaced, I intend to replace the whole group set with the new Shimano XTR M9100 12 Speed MTB Groupset 10-51 Now that 51 tooth sprocket is moving from dessert plate to salad plate.

 

[MechaNut]

In regards to Amazon vs. shopping locally. The local shops that carry the items that I require and treat me right get my business. Unfortunately most of the shops around here don't have the items I require or have treated me like a know-nothing wallet with legs. I'm not going to prop up local businesses that don't have what I require or treat me poorly just because they are local or both.

 

[Alaskan]

In regards to Amazon vs. shopping locally. The local shops that carry the items that I require and treat me right get my business. Unfortunately most of the shops around here don't have the items I require or have treated me like a know-nothing wallet with legs. I'm not going to prop up local businesses that don't have what I require or treat me poorly just because they are local or both.
[/QUOTEI]

I should have stated a basic precondition to my comment which is that the LBS is properly stocked and staffed with helpful, respectful people. I guess I am spoiled as four out of the six local bike shops in Bellingham are staffed with friendly, helpful people. both on the floor as well as in the repair shop. I end up leaning toward the Trek shop, even though it is corporate, simply because they are Bosch certified and my bikes are all Bosch equipped.

 

[AHicks]

What a concept! "properly stocked and staffed with helpful, respectful people"

You want to take internet stores down or remain competitive in this new environment? Start here.....

 

[MechaNut]

I should have stated a basic precondition to my comment which is that the LBS is properly stocked and staffed with helpful, respectful people. I guess I am spoiled as four out of the six local bike shops in Bellingham are staffed with friendly, helpful people. both on the floor as well as in the repair shop. I end up leaning toward the Trek shop, even though it is corporate, simply because they are Bosch certified and my bikes are all Bosch equipped.

There are several local bike shops that I frequent and do not hesitate to recommend. There are also several bike shops that I will not shop at again and recommend against based on my experiences there. I also frequent the local REI location because they often have parts and tools I need, have always treated me well, and it is actually right on my commute when I ride my bike (location location location).

 

[tomjasz]

I also frequent the local REI location

A fantastic example of how a company can stay relevant and for DECADES provide incredible value and service.
My membership number is 204xxx from 1966. 6 digits where they are now in the millions. My niece got her Townie Bosch ride using her membership benefits. A yearly kickback is an amazing program. Fantastic company!!! Sadly 110 miles to the closest!

 

[Alaskan]

A fantastic example of how a company can stay relevant and for DECADES provide incredible value and service.
My membership number is 256xxx from 1966. 6 digits where they are now in the millions. My niece got her Townie Bosch ride using her membership benefits. A yearly kickback is an amazing program. Fantastic company!!! Sadly 110 miles to the closest!

Unfortunately our local REI failed to make my cut. The bike head service guy makes no effort to hide his disdain for ebikes. Love me, love my ebike.

 

[tomjasz]

Unfortunately our local REI failed to make my cut. The bike head service guy makes no effort to hide his disdain for ebikes. Love me, love my ebike.

Ok so one asshat colors the entire company?

 

[Mass Deduction]

Ok so one asshat colors the entire company?

If I understood @Alaskan, he specified that he doesn't prefer to deal with his local REI due to the person who heads up the service department isn't on the same wavelength as him. Seems reasonable to me. Did he say something about REI as a company and I missed it?

My main take away from his comment is that there are only 6 bike shops in Bellingham! Given the size of Bellingham and surrounding environs, I would have guessed there'd be more.

 

[FlatSix911]

A fantastic example of how a company can stay relevant and for DECADES provide incredible value and service.
My membership number is 256xxx from 1966. 6 digits where they are now in the millions. My niece got her Townie Bosch ride using her membership benefits.
A yearly kickback is an amazing program. Fantastic company!!! Sadly 110 miles to the closest!

The sales people in REI always seem to comment on low member numbers... 459xxx from 1971!

 

[tomjasz]

The sales people in REI always seem to comment on low member numbers... 459xxx from 1971!

Yeah, whenever I call they initially tell me my number doesn’t exist. After which they apologize.

 

[steve mercier]

Yeah, whenever I call they initially tell me my number doesn’t exist. After which they apologize.

It was a very good year!

 

[tomjasz]

The sales people in REI always seem to comment on low member numbers... 459xxx from 1971!

No wonder we usually get on. <evil grin>

 

[Alaskan]

Ok so one asshat colors the entire company?

Not at all what I said. One asshat in charge of bike service at that store does color that store's service dep't.

 

[MechaNut]

Unfortunately our local REI failed to make my cut. The bike head service guy makes no effort to hide his disdain for ebikes. Love me, love my ebike.

That reaction is 100% guaranteed to make me turn around and never come back. One bike shop that made my cut basically said "The electrical systems are outside of our comfort zone to work on but we can take care of anything else you need taken care of." As a technical person, by profession, I can appreciate that kind of honesty. Any bike shop that doesn't treat me like some sort of pariah for having an e-bike generally ends up getting a positive review from me at the end of the day. Mainly because those shops end up providing a positive experience when all is said and done.