Mate.bike + serious accident on first ride and the weirdest reaction from the company

[Ana]

Hi!

I wanted to share my experience (first and last) with the foldable Mate e-bike.

During my very first ride with my Mate bike, after 20km of cycling the front wheel suddenly fell off when crossing a small curb. The quick release system had failed and the wheel popped off. I landed on my face and was flown with a helicopter to the nearest hospital.

Mate and their insurance company's conclusion is that it must have been a mistake in installing the quick release system. We had been biking with two Mate bikes, the other one worked fine and both bikes were installed and checked by the same two people: me (an amateur) and by my partner who has worked as a mountain biking guide and is more than familiar with the quick release system. We also followed the manual.

I would not have a problem to say if there was a chance that I hadn't closed it properly I just can't see how that would be possible, considering that the other bike worked fine and also mine was fine for the first 20km. And since it was the first ride we were extra cautious and kept double checking everything. After the accident the policemen found all the parts except the nut of the quick release system, which means it somehow came off. I have a picture of the bike a couple of km before the accident and there everything is still in their place.

I have no clue how this is possible that you can install the system so wrong that it can work fine and after so many km fail so badly. That's why I'm seriously concerned about this bike and won't ride it myself anymore. I have tried to warn other Mate bikers to have their bikes checked but Mate blocked me on Facebook and deleted my comments (after implying I was too stupid to install and ride the bike), see the screenshot

If anyone of you has an idea what might have happened, I'd be happy to hear it! Also if you have or know someone who owns a Mate-bike, please tell them to be carefull!

Safe travels to everyone!

Anna

ps. The same morning of the accident I decided to buy a helmet! Was a good decision!

 

[Al P]

Wow! That is one of the worst responses I have ever seen, considering the circumstances, regardless of who was at fault. A lawsuit might be just what they need, though it could be hard to prove negligence on their part. If you keep the bike, a lock washer on that quick-release nut should keep it from loosening up. Check it often.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I am glad you are okay.

Your problem is not unique or new. In one sense the problem of disk brakes + quick release skewers is the reason we have thru-axles.

From the limited information you have presented, I suspect that the braking force from the disk brakes gradually unscrewed the nut on the quick release, causing the catastrophic failure. Usually the fork dropouts will have bumps (derisively called 'lawyer lips') that keep the wheel from popping out if the skewer is loose, but if the nut fell off that wouldn't help much.

Failures and recalls of quick release skewers are not a new thing. Or even very rare.

 

[J.R.]

@Ana

Sorry you got hurt. I agree with Mr. Coffee on the likely cause and effect. When braking, using disc brakes, the bike wants to climb off the skewers and even a slightly lose quick release it will. I check my QR frequently since reading about this years ago. Thru-axles are the answer and the industry is slow to respond. Due to the speed capable on ebikes, the ebike industry is doing better at adopting them than the push bike industry. Good luck getting anyone in the industry to admit the danger of quick release skewers, much less a crowd funding ebike campaign like Mate.

I wish you luck and hope you can get past this event to be able to ride again.

 

[rich c]

Sorry to hear about your accident. Who assembled the bike for the first time? Mr. Coffee mentioned the "Lawyer lips". These are a last ditch effort to retain the wheel assembly if the rider doesn't sense a loosening of the nut on the skewer. Not finding the nut does not mean it completely failed before the accident. It may have sheared off during the accident as parts moved when the wheel came off and were placed under unusual loading. Did you test the tension on the release lever at intervals before the accident? There can be burrs on the parts from manufacturing that can alter the tension and change as you put on a few miles. The parts should be inspected during assemble and any burrs would be filed off. There may be paint or powder coating that is too thick and limit seating of the washers correctly. Even washers that are put on backwards can be an issue. Internet only companies are open to these issues by having untrained owners assemble the bikes. The Sondors Facebook page is filled with people assembling bikes incorrectly. I've even seen people selling bikes, complaining of poor handling, that had the forks installed backwards. Your accident highlights issues with the eBike industry. Components that are sourced to meet a price point, non-professional assembly, and bikes that are designed for high speed on low speed components. Even worse are people using kits on standard bicycles. I've seen advice given to alter the fork flange to install a front hub motor. It's a bit like the wild west out there unless you buy a high end bike that has been engineered and tested for the forces the bikes are put under. Nothing forgives that response you got from Mate.

 

[Ana]

Thank you for your replies!

@rich c I assembled the bike with my partner together, it was my first real ride with the bike when the accident happened. You're right, the nut could have been lost earlier or at the moment of the accident but nevertheless it was gone. I checked the bike again and again in the beginning of the ride but did not notice anything strange. I've later tested and checked how it feels like to drive with a loose qr system and you notice instability immediately, I wish I had noticed something like that before the accident but the bike worked really nicely until the hit. It happened when I drove over a small curb and that's why I guess the lawyers lips made no difference.

I know it's difficult to prove anything against Mate. At this point I would just like to have an open discussion about how things can go wrong with the bike, but with Mate's childish and unprofessional attitude it's a bit challenging...

I've read about other cases like the ones linked by @Mr. Coffee but since Mate doesn't want to talk about this publicly, there's not much I can do.

I also found some discussions whether it's better/safer to install the qr lever on the side of the disc brake or on the opposite side - any view on this?

Thanks again!

 

[rich c]

I don't know of any rule that says one side is better than the other for the lever. Most critical is that the lever must not touch any part of the frame or fork to limit it from fully closing. Many are concerned about the heat of the disc for burning hands when removing a wheel, so put the lever on the opposite side from the disc. Both my Haibikes have through axles. Lever on the right on front, left on rear is my preference. Here's a very good video.

 

[harryS]

Sorry you had to get hurt to get the message out. Get well quick!

There have been rides where I look down at my QR's and see, OMG, the front latch is open/loose, but none of those bikes had disk brakes. I wasn't aware of this issue, but now I will inspect.

Your mate is a rear drive and I don't think there's any thing different with the front forks. If the end nut is missing off the skewer, and didn't break off the axle, it could have not been fully threaded on. If the threaded end is snapped off, that could be a manufacturing defect.

Millions of bikes ship with that design. Probably safe to ride again. Convert to a threaded axle if it still worries you, but you'll have to pack a wrench in your flat tire kit.

Reminds me. There was a recall in 2016 by several bike makers. Ahhh. The QR lever could open, contact the brake rotor, and jam the brakes. That's why you want the QR lever on the side away from the rotor. And it also suggests that loose QR levers aren't ununusal.

 

[AguassissiM]

@Ana
Sorry to hear about your accident , hope your ok.

That is one of the most ignorant and idiotic responses that mate.bike could have come up with,
i just hope that karma will visit them soon.

My quick release lever is on the disc side and i never had any issues.

 

[JoePah]

I am glad you are okay.

Your problem is not unique or new. In one sense the problem of disk brakes + quick release skewers is the reason we have thru-axles.

From the limited information you have presented, I suspect that the braking force from the disk brakes gradually unscrewed the nut on the quick release, causing the catastrophic failure. Usually the fork dropouts will have bumps (derisively called 'lawyer lips') that keep the wheel from popping out if the skewer is loose, but if the nut fell off that wouldn't help much.

Failures and recalls of quick release skewers are not a new thing. Or even very rare.

Sorry dude but respectfully disagree.. Ana only rode her bike 20 km. If the quick release skewer was installed, adjusted and the lever fully pressed down, there is no way that nut would come lose in 20 km from braking or vibration.

I made this mistake when I was 13 years old, and I did it on a fellow camper's 10 speed, a girl. Wheel came loose and she got jammed in the handlebars.. 13 yo just walk away from these accidents, thankfully. I failed to lock the lever down... Never made that mistake ever again.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Sorry dude but respectfully disagree.. Ana only rode her bike 20 km. If the quick release skewer was installed, adjusted and the lever fully pressed down, there is no way that nut would come lose in 20 km from braking or vibration.

I made this mistake when I was 13 years old, and I did it on a fellow camper's 10 speed, a girl. Wheel came loose and she got jammed in the handlebars.. 13 yo just walk away from these accidents, thankfully. I failed to lock the lever down... Never made that mistake ever again.

The problem with that theory is I can't imagine how the front wheel would stay on for 20km with the skewer improperly installed, improperly adjusted, and most especially if the lever was not fully pressed into place. Another problem is that a wheel with a loose skewer is pretty noticeable and it is hard to imagine anyone, even a novice cyclist, riding that far without noticing something very wrong.

QR skewers have been around for a long time. Yet since disk brakes have surfaced there have been fairly persistent stories of front wheels coming off in situations like @Ana had where operator error doesn't seem to be an adequate explanation.

From conversations with mountain bikers about this you will get a lot of speculation and very little hard data. Whatever the problem is it is very rare and probably comes from a variety of factors working together to produce such a disastrous result.

My own suspicions are that one of the factors might well be that certain skewer designs will be perfectly fine under most any load from a caliper brake and most loads from a disk brake but might well fail if the wheel is placed in exactly the wrong place in the dropout. I've also heard some speculation that over-tightening the skewer might contribute to that catastrophic failure and wheel release under disk brake loads.

 

[rich c]

Here's an interesting picture of a fork that lost the front wheel. It shows an irregular wear pattern from a cheap manufacturing technique with the fork. The clamping surface is not flat, so uneven clamping forces with the skewer, and possible reason for loosening.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/skewers.html

 

[Ana]

Thanks! I'm fine now and almost fully recovered. The accident happened months ago. First Mate actually appeared friendly and said their insurance would take a look into this. I waited for months just to know that Mate is not responsible because I didn't insert the nut. Obviously I had installed the nut and I even had a picture. So I complained and waited again. The final decision being that maybe I didn't install the qr correctly or maybe the product failed - but since I cannot prove anything Mate has no liability.

Only after this I wrote on Facebook, which obviously got too much on their nerves.

Mistakes happen and so do product failures. But I wish they would be open to examine and try to figure out what kind of problem it might have been in order to avoid accidents in the future.

In the same Facebook chat I questioned the quality of the Mate bike's qr system which I found for $1.5 on Ebay, to which they answered that the cheaper ones are better than the expensive ones... I'm not an expert about this but seems a little unlikely...

Thanks for the tips how to secure the wheel better! I won't be biking with a Mate again but good to know for the future!

 

[JoePah]

Thanks! I'm fine now and almost fully recovered. The accident happened months ago. First Mate actually appeared friendly and said their insurance would take a look into this. I waited for months just to know that Mate is not responsible because I didn't insert the nut. Obviously I had installed the nut and I even had a picture. So I complained and waited again. The final decision being that maybe I didn't install the qr correctly or maybe the product failed - but since I cannot prove anything Mate has no liability.

Only after this I wrote on Facebook, which obviously got too much on their nerves.

Mistakes happen and so do product failures. But I wish they would be open to examine and try to figure out what kind of problem it might have been in order to avoid accidents in the future.

In the same Facebook chat I questioned the quality of the Mate bike's qr system which I found for $1.5 on Ebay, to which they answered that the cheaper ones are better than the expensive ones... I'm not an expert about this but seems a little unlikely...

Thanks for the tips how to secure the wheel better! I won't be biking with a Mate again but good to know for the future!

Ana I'm glad you've recovered and hope you can get back to biking soon, on a more trusted brand

Do you now think you know what happened? Did any of the parts actually fail, or did they just come loose?

 

[JoePah]

Here's an interesting picture of a fork that lost the front wheel. It shows an irregular wear pattern from a cheap manufacturing technique with the fork. The clamping surface is not flat, so uneven clamping forces with the skewer, and possible reason for loosening.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/skewers.html

Looks like someone tightend the nut on the tip of the fork, rather than seating the nut into the "lawyer" indent, causing the irregular wear pattern.

 

[Ana]

Ana I'm glad you've recovered and hope you can get back to biking soon, on a more trusted brand

Do you now think you know what happened? Did any of the parts actually fail, or did they just come loose?

@JoePah no idea unfortunately, that's why I'm trying to investigate what could be the cause. I was hoping Mate would have helped me with this but obviously not

 

[tomjasz]

hear

I apologize in advance if my directness is taken as a personal insult. I think cherry picking parts of communications without access to complete text is suspicious.

I’ve found that we humans are quite adept at shifting blame and responsibility. We all make mistakes. It’s always possible to overlook a small detail. Besmirching a manufacturer without a complete story is just a pity party, in my opinion.

Having had years of experience in customer service, all eBike related, I know there’s often more to the story. You don’t share your messages and we don’t get a sense of your tone. We have no idea about the scope of you claim either.

Making your first posts a go at a company doesn’t engage my trust.

I was happy to read the accident is long passed and you’ve healed. Hopefully you investigated and are back riding

 

[tomjasz]

You and your partner have posted several places. She wrote “Either it's closed or not.” I don’t think that’s correct. It can be closed and loose. It can be closed in the wrong position. There are actually a number of potential hazards. Was this a Indiegogo purchase? Their ratings are awful. I’m sorry if you were a victim of a crap campaign, a method I’d never use for an eBike purchase.

 

[JoePah]

@JoePah no idea unfortunately, that's why I'm trying to investigate what could be the cause. I was hoping Mate would have helped me with this but obviously not

They treated you horribly.. Shows they do not have the resources to hire and keep competent staff.

 

[tomjasz]

They treated you horribly.. Shows they do not have the resources to hire and keep competent staff.

Digging deeper, just another funding campaign with a carrot and stick.