Luna Cycle finally selling Apollo emtb 'best ebike ever'

[harryS]

When Luna started selling complete ebikes, I felt that overly dependent customers would bring them down, but apparently they have scared off those folks from buying or been able to ignore the ones that complained. I was never interested in their ebikes, but when the first came out, the initial pricing made sense with a 90 day warranty, especially since most of them were set up to be ridden hard.

It's true that batteries were quite expensive when they got into the business. I have three from them, two from 2015 and 2016 that still work fine. They got Bafang to release a more reliable 750W BBS02, which I have. I will say that all my Luna chargers are dead now.

Yes, you could buy a very fun used car, build an ebike and carry it, for $5500.

 

[LimboJim]

Most people scoff at the price of Ebikes. They just say I can get a superb off-road motorcycle or a used car for $5.5K.

My point is anyone who can drop $5.5K on a 'bicycle' will have some degree of discerning mind and I hope they use it responsibly.
People are who reckless would never think of shelling out that kind of money on a bicycle.
This is a bicycle that is out of budget for most people and from my experience, people who spend $3K plus are very progressive, very knowledgeable and considerate.
I'm yet to see a guy who spent 5K on a bike and use it like a hooligan.

Call me a pessimist, but there are plenty of trust fund and other kids of wealth who think that's cheap, and kids often enough aren't big on behaving responsibly. Some never grow up!

You know as well as anyone that the Luna Apollo is not a "bicycle," at least not by any established US state or federal definition. For legislators, land managers and other officials in charge of regulating ebikes, it's about the vehicles' capabilities, not who might ride them (or how).

 

[tomjasz]

They got Bafang to release a more reliable 750W BBS02

Huh? Take some claims with a grain of salt. The B version was a complete surprise.

 

[jazz]

lol at least it comes with warranty.
That's their strategy for keeping the price low.

Having a good warranty does not necessarily cost the company more if the product is good but it does instill confidence in the product by the customer

 

[jazz]

What are you talking about? Extended warranty will always cost money, whether you're buying a car, motorcycle, cell phones, whatever.

Less warranty will allow manufactures to lower the price, even Virginia from Amego said this @3:00 in this video.

No. I manufacture equipment for a living (not ebikes). Our product market prices are based on what we can make it for and the margin we need to support our company. Having a shorter or longer warranty really does nothing to this price because our products are great quality and the defect rate is so low.

We offer 12 month full parts & labor warranty. Our next biggest competitor offers only 30 days. Whose product would you buy if everything else is equal (and it's not, our products are much better)?

My point is that if you believe you sell a good product and stand behind it, a decent warranty is a customer benefit not a company expense or cost savings.

 

[Reserved11]

That bike looks great! Luna is really evolving. I think for that price it's out of competition.

 

[tomjasz]

We offer 12-month full parts & labor warranty. Our next biggest competitor offers only 30 days. Whose product would you buy if everything else is equal (and it's not, our products are much better)?

Exactly! Often I get a call asking why one vendor is lower priced, when typically if a buyer takes the cart all the way through shipping and taxes we're competitive. AND we answer calls and emails promptly. Along with a one year warranty. That big guy that buys pallets of kits actually has a MUCH higher margin of profit while still just a few dollars less. They are making a LARGE profit while claiming to change the market with lower prices. Oddly all but two vendors are willing to share information and help each other. While one of them runs down the competition claims being picked on, and is generally the Trump of eBike kit dealers.

 

[smorgasbord]

$700 bumps the warranty from 90 days to 12 months, so think of it as $6,251. Luna charges $175 for US shipping.

Compared to, say a Biktrix Ultra FS, specced to come as close to the Apollo as possible (Wren front fork, 27.5" plus sizing, 21Ah battery). That's $5,100 + $350-600 shipping (split the difference at $475), what does the extra $851 to Luna buy you (this is using Biktrix's latest "discount" pricing, according to EBR's review the top spec is actually $6200 plus shipping, which is MORE than the Apollo).

1. Carbon Fiber versus aluminum frame.
2. 60 pounds total versus 77 pounds total!
3. Ultra motor putting out 2,000 watts peak versus 1,500 watts.
4. 52 volts versus 48 volts.
5. 12 speed SRAM GX versus 11 speed SRAM.
6. 10-50 rear tooth range versus 11-41.
7. 44 tooth front chainring versus 42 tooth (overall the Apollo has both a taller top gear and lower bottom gear).
8. Shimano M355 brakes versus Tektro E710.
9. 203mm front, 180mm rear versus 180mm front & rear brake discs.
10. Cane Creek headset versus Neco headset.
11. Rockshox Monarch RT3 versus DNM Burner RC3 rear shock.
12. Dropper seat post versus rigid seat post.
13. Wren carbon handlebars versus Promax alloy handlebars.
14. Wren 70mm stem versus Promax stem.
15. Maxxis Chronicle tires versus Kenda (unless brand changes with Biktrix's 27.5" option).
16. SUN Ringle MTX 33 rims & hubs vs ?? rims/hubs.
17. 1-5 amp charger with 80%/90%/100% stop levels versus 3 amp charger.

You do get a kickstand and a front light with the Biktrix, neither of which comes with the Luna (and no good way to put a kickstand on the Luna).

The Apollo's are hand assembled and tested in Los Angeles, CA. While Biktrix is a Canadian company, I don't know how much assembly/tuning is done in Canada.

This is the kind of analysis that led me to purchasing an Apollo recently. So far, quality out the gate is superior to my recent Evelo purchase (for my wife). Assuming you're willing to go the non-local-dealer route to begin with (which is not for everyone), Luna is offering a lot of bike for the dollar.

 

[Ebiker01]

Luna is offering a lot of bike for the dollar.

The only one that can compete in terms of weight and other specs is the Haibike Flyon but that is 8-9.000$ !! And is 5-6months away in the Us launch .

 

[smorgasbord]

Note that the recent version of the Apollo has changes over the one I bought late last year:
1) $550 cheaper
2) SRAM SX cassette/derailleur/shifter instead of SRAM GX
3) 11-50 cassette instead of 10-50 AND you can't even shift into the 11-tooth cog
4) SRAM Guide R brakes instead of Shimano
5) Rockshox Debonair Yari 160mm front fork instead of Wren
6) 27.5 x 2.8 instead of 27.5 x 3.0, but still Maxxis tires

Unknown on changes to rims, hubs, handlebars and stem. I'll report back when I know.

Overall, I'd rather spend the $550 more....

 

[tomjasz]

Nice warranty, NOT!

 

[Explorer-1]

Note that the recent version of the Apollo has changes over the one I bought late last year:
1) $550 cheaper
2) SRAM SX cassette/derailleur/shifter instead of SRAM GX
3) 11-50 cassette instead of 10-50 AND you can't even shift into the 11-tooth cog
4) SRAM Guide R brakes instead of Shimano
5) Rockshox Debonair Yari 160mm front fork instead of Wren
6) 27.5 x 2.8 instead of 27.5 x 3.0, but still Maxxis tires

Unknown on changes to rims, hubs, handlebars and stem. I'll report back when I know.

Overall, I'd rather spend the $550 more....

Hmmm "SRAM SX cassette/derailleur/shifter instead of SRAM GX" this is really puzzling. This too "11-50 cassette instead of 10-50 AND ..."

I wonder if this was done because they could not get the parts.

 

[smorgasbord]

I wonder if this was done because they could not get the parts.

Clearly is a cost-savings measure, as the new bike comes in under $5K. It would be forgivable if you could actually use the 11 tooth cog, but they said it rubs on the next gear, which implies some kind of chain alignment problem that they couldn't solve.

Anyone know why companies just don't use SRAM's EX1 11-48 cassette and derailleur? Only 8 speeds, but that should be plenty with a mid-drive motor, right?

 

[LimboJim]

Clearly is a cost-savings measure, as the new bike comes in under $5K. It would be forgivable if you could actually use the 11 tooth cog, but they said it rubs on the next gear, which implies some kind of chain alignment problem that they couldn't solve.

Anyone know why companies just don't use SRAM's EX1 11-48 cassette and derailleur? Only 8 speeds, but that should be plenty with a mid-drive motor, right?

I have the EX1 setup on two of my eMTBs, and absolutely love it. I am also shocked that none of the major manufacturers use it, though the retail price on the cassette alone is @$400... I've been seeing it on a few websites for just 300 bucks, which tells me SRAM will probably ditch it soon...

 

[pennybags]

They may have some competition now - though a lot more expensive. Significantly better components and incredible performance looks like. https://wattwagons.com/pages/travalanche_specifications

 

[TomD]

$7599, but Luna sure seems to be getting one upped by better spec'd bikes. Time to up their game!

 

[smorgasbord]

Nice warranty, NOT!

FWIW, I fat-wrenched attaching the keypad to new handlebars I was mounting and snapped the plastic ring. I had been wrenching stem and such and so probably had the 5NM muscle memory, which was far too much. Unfortunately, the design is such that the mounting ring is part of the keypad back and is not a standard replaceable item.

I did a Live Chat with Luna, and they're shipping a replacement display/keypad (they're hardwired together) to me at a big enough discount that it must be at or very close to their cost. This was clearly my fault, but they came through with good support on this admittingly small issue.

 

[smorgasbord]

$7599, but Luna sure seems to be getting one upped by better spec'd bikes. Time to up their game!

That's for the 750 watt version. The 1000 watt version is $500 more, and the 3000 watt version is $900 more.

But yes, component spec (Magura MT7 203mm brakes front and rear, etc) is much better, too. Great to have alternatives!

 

[TomD]

Oh, I thought all of the bikes came with new controller and it was just a matter of configuring whether you wanted the extra watts or just the other benefits of the new controller. I don't understand why 1000W vs 750W would have a $500 upcharge. It makes more sense for the 3000 watt version since it might require a battery and bms upgrade.