Just joined from San Francisco

[Shradda]

I'm putting my Kalkhoff aside and am going to purchase the R&M 2019 Homage.
I'm not sure if I want the dual battery because I only use it for commutes. It will
also save me $1,000. But need advice on it. Whats the average amount of miles
one can get on one charge? I've been riding a Homage loaner for 2 weeks and I really enjoy it.
Its the 28 MPH. Its fast and fun. But San Francisco hills are still a challenge. It may be a lack
of skill on my part. But I don't want to do the 20 MPH version that they say is better for hills,
because I super enjoy the speed of the 28MPH. Friends and fellow bikers I would so appreciate
your advice. Thanks so much.

 

[dblhelix]

I'm putting my Kalkhoff aside and am going to purchase the R&M 2019 Homage.
I'm not sure if I want the dual battery because I only use it for commutes. It will
also save me $1,000. But need advice on it. Whats the average amount of miles
one can get on one charge? I've been riding a Homage loaner for 2 weeks and I really enjoy it.
Its the 28 MPH. Its fast and fun. But San Francisco hills are still a challenge. It may be a lack
of skill on my part. But I don't want to do the 20 MPH version that they say is better for hills,
because I super enjoy the speed of the 28MPH. Friends and fellow bikers I would so appreciate
your advice. Thanks so much.

Greetings.

To date, what people in your situation have done is purchase the Performance CX (higher torque, limited to 20 mph) model for the hill-climbing and de-restrict (the speed cap) via “dongles,” purchased (mostly) from third parties in Germany. This is also referred to as tuning. You can use the search function for this site to find multiple threads on the topic.

However, it has come to light recently that In the next firmware update, Bosch has implemented detection of tuning/derestriction, presumably to void warranties.

I don’t think anyone here has the details on how this will play out. I will say that I am in your situation. I do a lot of touring and need the HS to outrun farm dogs, for example, and need the extra torque for climbing. The extra torque btw, is about 20% (63 Nm vs 75 Nm). I’d decided to replace my HS with a CX until I heard about this firmware development. For this and some other reasons, I am forgoing a 2019 purchase, but it sounds like you are not in a “wait and see” position.

Another factor is which drivetrain you choose. Which model is your current loaner? For example, some riders here have had difficulty with steep hills and the HS/NuVinci combination. Ideally, you should try to match a drivetrain option to a HS model to see if you conquer the steep sections of your ride. Then you won’t have to worry about the whole CX vs HS engine option. Assuming that your dealer is New Wheel, I imagine that it shouldn’t be a problem to test ride derailleur and Rohloff drivetrain options with a HS motor. Warning: the Rohloff option is spendy.

One battery — given the topography you describe, I’d expect about 40 miles assuming the steep sections are fairly short bursts — perhaps less if you do a lot of hill climbing. Given that you’re riding a Homage right now, you are probably in the best position to estimate what to expect depending on your daily commute.

 

[Shradda]

Thank you so much for this information. The loaner is a 2018 rolhoff HS. Speedy and great fun. I have no dogs to outpace, but do have to dodge aggressive drivers. Given that the extra torque is only 20% maybe I just need to get more into shape. I live on a street that has a
31.5% grade--fun to go down, but a killer to come up after a long day at work. When I attempt the hill I move into the lowest gear and power to Turbo and its slow and grinding. I keep hearing about bikes that zoom up hills. None-the-less, I really like the feel of the Homage HS 2018,
and the speed, and the look, and the idea of little to no repairs. But like most humans I wanted everything---particularly with such a costly bike.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

31.5% grade - fun to go down, but a killer to come up. I keep hearing about bikes that zoom up hills.

Shradda ...
Welcome to the EBR Forum - and to those paying homage to Riese & Müller.

Some years ago, I took my Rohloff-equipped folder to New Zealand to ride some of their mountainous terrain. My little bike had even lower gearing than the R&M Homage GX Rohloff. On the steepest slopes, I did not use its #1 gear which was so low that I was in danger fear of toppling over through lack of momentum.

Add the power assist and the easy-off seating position of the Homage, and your >30% incline is doable (but I'll pass). Surely, there is no way that any ebike can "zoom" up a >30% hill. To get you home, the Homage GX Rohloff will be as close to perfect as an ebike can be.
... David

 

[Saratoga Dave]

Ain’t nobody zooming up 30% hills on any commercial ebike, unless they weigh 135 pounds and have a hurricane behind them. Given your use case and that hill which you are apparently going to see pretty much every day, if it were me I’d want every advantage... therefore the CX and hopefully the Rohloff as well. Certainly not a NuVinci, which appears from all the stories here to be nowhere near the Rohloff in low gearing.

Your bike is going to get a pretty serious motor workout every day, apparently, so why not get the setup most specifically designed to handle that. The Performance Speed motor is fun when you do want to go faster, but I’ve got it and I almost never go over 21 or so mph, and on the other hand I’d love to have some extra climbing oomph. Again, a specific use case and preferences. If I was a daily commuter with rolling terrain, of course I’d want the faster setup. But if I know there’s a 30% hill waiting for me every day, you’d better believe I want to be as comfortable as I can dealing with it.

You’re lucky to have that loaner to try all this out with! Many people arrive at the bottom of their first major hill on their new ebike armed only with high and often unrealistic hopes, thinking somehow they are going to blast over it like they’re on a BMW sport cycle.

 

[ebikemom]

Yeah, when people talk about ebikes flattening hilly terrain, they aren't talking about the steeper grades in San Francisco or my area, either ... A 31.5% grade is serious stuff. I tried a 29% grade near me that was also quite curvy and narrow on top of the grade (it was a paved footpath, actually, not a street), and ended up walking the bike up, using a touch of throttle. The throttle was great because I didn't have to push the bike up the hill. In fact, the bike helped to pull ME up the hill. This made it much easier to walk up the hill than one would expect for such a heavy bike.

Meanwhile, my 13 year old daughter does great on steep grades due to her size and her on her 24" bike--up that same curvy, steep, footpath she zipped (even without a hurricaine, @Saratoga Dave !!) She grinned at me from the top of that hill wondering what the problem was!

One thought--since it sounds like you are doing mostly city driving, how about a class 3 hub drive bike that has a throttle? Then, at least, the bike could help "walk" YOU up hills, which could be better than your current situation if the hills are terribly long. I've found that super steep grade hills do, mercifully, tend to be short. A hub drive bike will also need less maintenance (see @Deleted Member 4210 thread on hub vs. mid-drive bikes https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/mid-drives-vs-hub-drives.22575/). You could try one out and see if a throttle is a useful feature for your situation. Sorry that I can't refer you to particular brands/models due to lack of experience, but just sharing an idea...

 

[CodyDog]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Class III e-bikes, as the laws are currently written, can't have throttles. Many do have a "walk assist" function that is of varying usefulness,

For San Francisco, go for the Rohloff and the CX motor. You can climb trees with that combination. With the HS motor or another drivetrain (e.g. NuVInci) you won't be able to climb as well.

 

[Alaskan]

My HS Rohloff climbs a 16% grade in sport mode, 3rd gear with equivalent effort/speed as my Cube Touring Hybrid with Bosch CX in Turbo mode, 1st gear (46 teeth rear - 17 teeth front). Granted our hill is not a 30+% grade. I have yet to need 1st gear and Bellingham is quite hilly.

I would say if you'll be just riding around the city of San Francisco, get the CX. If you'll be riding much in flatter country, consider the HS. It's fun to do 5 mile sprints on the flats at 24 mph, something very doable in 12th gear, spot mode, 85 cadence for this old fart with a HS and Rohloff.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

NuVinci appears from all the stories here to be nowhere near the Rohloff in low gearing.

From the figures on R&M's website...

• Homage GT Vario's lowest gear is 2.54 m (the distance travelled per pedal revolution).
• Homage GX Rohloff's lowest gear is 1.66 m.

The Rohloff's #4 gear is equal to the lowest gear on the GT Vario - a major difference. The Vario does not have a "granny gear" at all but the Rohloff has a "great-grandmother gear".

 

[Dionigi]

But even with the Rohloff a 30% grade on a daily basis would not be enjoyable. I would recommend the CX motor, it would make your commute a little less laborious and have the added California benefit of riding in the Santa Cruz Mountains where only class 1 bikes are permitted.

 

[dblhelix]

But like most humans I wanted everything---particularly with such a costly bike.

I hear you! Here is some more information about the HS model. The assist provided decreases linearly starting at 21 mph and drops to zero at 27 mph. I don’t know why the claim is “28 mph.” What this means is that by mid-20s, you’re getting very little assist.

I see it as an odd choice between some (but less than you think) assist above 20 mph vs capped speed and some boost in torque (rotational force) for the CX. Same engine, different settings. As you can see from the range of responses, optimally the HS should get a boost in torque (it’s happened before) to justify the extra $$, but for now you’re kind of stuck with this kind of lame choice.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

One of the things people don't think about is that if you are going up such a steep hill you probably will be going down it as well.

So you might need to evaluate adding better brakes. I have found that a lot of e-bikes usually forego beefier brakes, which given that they are so much heavier than regular bikes would make a lot of sense.

 

[dblhelix]

[QUOTE="Shradda, post: 161018, member: 20762] But like most humans I wanted everything---particularly with such a costly bike.[/QUOTE]

Regarding the 3x% climb — how did you manage on your Kalkhoff? I demo’d an Integrale w/ belt at the 2016 DC expo. I can’t imagine that your Kalkhoff would outperform your loaner bike?

 

[dblhelix]

One of the things people don't think about is that if you are going up such a steep hill you probably will be going down it as well.

So you might need to evaluate adding better brakes. .

Yeah, no kidding. Shimano Deore is perfectly fine but it is a budget brake. I noticed that 2019 is going to Magura MT4 which is another budget brake and less reliable than the Deore, IMO.

The back pads were going every 800 miles or so. Not only that, the wear was uneven, constant rubbing problems ... the rotor doesn’t 100% cover the pads. The first time I stopped for rear brake issues, I was told the caliper was not properly centered over the rotor — and the bike had some 400 miles on it. I doubt it left the dealer like that but I have no explanation for how this happened. One thing’s for sure: these bikes are very heavy and the brakes are underspec’d. I didn’t have wear issues on the front brake but the stopping power is insufficient, forcing me to use the rear more than I wanted to.

When I have time, I’m going to look into larger rotors and possibly semi-metallic in the rear. To be fair, the above is based on carrying a heavier load than common use cases but these bikes do get marketed as tourers so ...

 

[Saratoga Dave]

Hey there, Ebikemom... a comment on your daughter’s hill climbing abilities. Along with all the other advantages - 13 with a nice, strong heart, probably prretty lightweight, and certainly smart to boot - she is aided by those 24” wheels. I certainly can’t explain that, but we’ve got plenty of smart analytical people here who can, but that smaller wheel radius makes a huge difference in getting that torque to the ground.

My wife’s City Commuter is the 26” version, and rear hub or not, it climbs pretty damn efficiently as well. I just wish I could get her out on it with me more often!

 

[Alaskan]

One of the things people don't think about is that if you are going up such a steep hill you probably will be going down it as well.

So you might need to evaluate adding better brakes. I have found that a lot of e-bikes usually forego beefier brakes, which given that they are so much heavier than regular bikes would make a lot of sense.

The very reason I upgraded the Diore XTs to a 203mm front rotor with an aluminum core and finned pads all around.

 

[dblhelix]

The very reason I upgraded the Diore XTs to a 203mm front rotor with an aluminum core and finned pads all around.

Sure, but let’s acknowledge that between the Nyon, brakes, modifying the rack (should I go on?) a prospective buyer is looking at additional costs. The 2019 Homage Rohloff is about $8k before all of these changes, amirite? You’ve made quite a few changes/upgrades and clearly it’s worth it to you, but I think most prospective buyers don’t expect to have to put in any more $$ for displays, brakes and so on. It adds up.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

The very reason I upgraded the Diore XTs to a 203mm front rotor with an aluminum core and finned pads all around.

A winter project is going to be to upgrade the whole braking system, if possible. I am getting tired of replacing brake pads every 500 miles. I'll also most likely try to upgrade to a nicer rear rack as well -- funny thing, when I first saw the Charger I thought the front rack was lame, but now I am all about upgrading the rear rack. Kind of odd how things work out.

 

[ebikemom]

Class III e-bikes, as the laws are currently written, can't have throttles.