JedidiahStolzfus
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Lancaster, PA
I have a connection to Bosch, they're working to find out about this. I'll keep you posted. So far, they have not found anything that requires the motor to be returned to Bosch.
If you buy a bike with a Bosch motor, who owns the motor?
- Thread starter DanInStPete
- Start date
'
~$300 before taxes is still a considerable amount. If you have a torque wrench and a cheap bike toolset it can easily be done.
That is not the issue though, they charged you labor plus the price of a new motor(actually you can purchase a brand new motor online for a bit less). I also never heard a practice where the company sells you a new motor only if you bring them the old one unless it is explicitly stated as exchange...
Just make sure that nothing fishy is going on.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
if you bought a motor online from someone it would not be setup for your bike. the motor has to be programmed for your setup and only a dealer can do that.
What setup are you talking about? The only problem maybe tire circumference since Bosch likes to lock it and even in that case it can be communicated with the seller to make sure that it comes right or pay a bosch lbs $50 to change it with the dongle they have.
Whatever, let's not change the topic.
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BlackHand
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Western WA
So... You're talking about grey market eBay stuff shipped over from Europe I'm guessing. I have nothing particular against that but you are absolutely trading $$ for increased risk.
FWIW Dan, your LBS charged almost the same labor as mine did for my warranty replacement. I think it was $125 to pull the old DU and $175 to install the replacement, put everything back together, configure and update firmware.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
mine gave me a good deal I think because I bought a new bike only 30.00 for warranty work. the motor came in all setup.
Stop making nonsense assumptions who said anything about european grey market etc. wth ? I am talking about brand new motors that are sold and shipped by online bike shops in the States. And the price is also in $800s.
Also it should be possible to simply give the bikes model/vin number to order one. Any decent big company would follow that practice. What if the rider is no longer living in a place where he/she can access to a dealer.
And the topic is not about the price lbs charged, if you are incapable of doing it yourself you let lbs do it and pay the price...
This sounds very sketchy, but not entirely implausible. I'd contact Bosch directly or there is a Bosch team member who posts on EBR. Given that more than one person on EBR has posted that Bosch replaced their motor outside of the warranty window makes me wonder if the dealer didn't just submit your motor to Bosch for replacement while at the same time still fully charging you. Bosch should be able to confirm or deny what the bike shop told you.
Gionnirocket
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Y. O.
I doubt that very much.
Bosch's relationship is with the seller/dealer and I doubt that you'd be able to speak to someone that would know the details and/or would undercut the dealership. They could step in and honor warranty and reprimand the dealer, but I'd bet that they would sugar coat the reason and what actually transpired.
rich c
Well-Known Member
I don't care who owns my Bosch motors. A dead motor is scrap and means nothing to me. The most common issue I read about is if the motor gets submerged or exposed to a lot of water. I ride recreationally and have a total of 11,800 (7,800 on the most used) miles on 3 different eBikes with Bosch motors. I never ride in precipitation, winter or summer. I love the feel, love the dependability, and consider Bosch to be the perfect riding experience for me. Considering I only put on 1,700 miles on a Bafang geared hub motor before it failed, I'd much rather have Bosch keep a motor compared to riding a Bafang and have a stack of dead Bafang's sitting in my garage.
Gionnirocket
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Y. O.
As usual.. Totally off topic and...
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
With all due respect, I'm calling BS here....
IF you really did have even one, and you were capable of figuring out which end of a screwdriver fit the screw, you would realize how easily they are rebuilt/repaired. Unlike Bosch, the Bafangs (for the most part) use inexpensive parts available from numerous sources that are sold to anyone that wants to do their own work - as well as shops.
Mike TowpathTraveler
Well-Known Member
I'm curious as to the issues leading up to @DanInStPete that caused motor to fail. Motor noise? Electrical problems leading to a code or a no-run? I'm not up at all on Bosch and what can be done at the home level. I believe in Right To Repair. Batteries & opening them up would be a no-go. That would be literally playing with fire and with these proprietary battery systems, a sure fire way to brick the battery. Motors are another side of the coin. Armed with the below video, a Harbor Freight hydraulic press and some bearing pullers, any competent home mechanic willing to do-so, could open up that motor and do a visual inspection as to what is happening inside. And make the needed repairs and cleaning, as per that below video. There is also a United States satellite repair shop from what Peter at Performance Line Bearings created in his home UK for either bearing parts and/or outright repair.
But again, I don't know what the issues were with Dan's Haibike that stopped it from working. Only a Bosch Rep here could honestly state why the broken motor was not given a core credit. And if not, that Bosch Rep should see to it that Dan got his core charge credited to his bill at the LBS. That is Dan's motor. My Yamaha belongs to me, that Brose to every Brose owner. If I were Dan, I'd be hopping mad too.
But again, I don't know what the issues were with Dan's Haibike that stopped it from working. Only a Bosch Rep here could honestly state why the broken motor was not given a core credit. And if not, that Bosch Rep should see to it that Dan got his core charge credited to his bill at the LBS. That is Dan's motor. My Yamaha belongs to me, that Brose to every Brose owner. If I were Dan, I'd be hopping mad too.
Problem is, except in limited circumstances, such as display upgrades, we consumers are not Bosch's customers. We're customers of the retailer or the bike manufacturer.
Think of your car. Bosch makes parts for cars that it sells to car manufacturers. If one of these parts fails, we deal with the dealer, maybe the car manufacturer, but probably not. We certainly don't deal directly with Bosch. This is no different, unfortunately.
Seems to me we're flogging a dead horse. The OP's problem is one of communication with the LBS, plain and simple.
Think of your car. Bosch makes parts for cars that it sells to car manufacturers. If one of these parts fails, we deal with the dealer, maybe the car manufacturer, but probably not. We certainly don't deal directly with Bosch. This is no different, unfortunately.
Seems to me we're flogging a dead horse. The OP's problem is one of communication with the LBS, plain and simple.
DanInStPete
Well-Known Member
My position exactly, and I stated it very clearly in front of the husband/wife owners and the mechanic. I like the shop, they run a nice operation and have gone out of their way to help me. They did open the motor up to see if it could be repaired, and they told me they tried both Bosch and Haibike to get it warrantied. I believe them. Which was why I didn't just grab the box with my motor in it and walk out.
I don't have a problem with the $282 labor, they did a lot of work for me and it took a lot of time. I didn't want to get into it. I do most of my own work, but replacing a motor is not something I would risk doing myself.
I do think the problem with he motor was water intrusion, and I don't think it was realistically repairable. I rode to far into the rainy season and got in to deep a few times, though as soon as I saw it happening I picked the bike up and walked it out. Should it have trashed the motor? If it's not waterproof, maybe. Though as the mechanic at the bike shop told me, they advertise as their motors being able to handle harsh conditions.
My major complaint is that I did want to keep my old motor. Whether or not I could use any of it is beside the point. I own(ed) it, I can do whatever I want with it.
I believe the owners had legitimate concerns that they could lose their business relationship with Bosch if they didn't TAKE my motor and send it back to them. When you take something that belongs to someone else, well, is that not the definition of theft? So, my problem is with Bosch. If this is their policy I think it is at the least a horrible business practice, and at worst is breaking the law.
If they want to keep my old motor, the new one should be free.
dblhelix
Well-Known Member
I can cite my experience. I had a performance Line HS motor failure in Washington, DC. under warranty. My dealer is remote but contacted Bosch, who authorized the motor swap. I chose a DC Trek dealer in Georgetown, DC which was the Bosch-certified bike shop closest to my motor failure. To flash the new motor, Bosch needed a diagnostic report of my bike. I sent an old one, which was sufficient. Along with the new motor, Trek received a box/label to send mine back to the dealer.
The total labor was around $85, IIRC, this was 11 months ago. I remember this very well bc I didn’t mind paying although under warranty. Beat the hell out of schlepping the bike to the dealer.
I know that my bike cannot accept its European counterpart motor without the manufacturer re-flashing for the US (which I doubt RM would agree to), just for the record. I’m not sure what the consequences would be for Gen 4/3/2, but as these systems get ‘smarter’ I would not be surprised to see the motor disabled If motor location/version did not match. I‘m sure the justification is to ward off any potential liability issue. Remember, Gen4 users can already LOCK motors via Nyon download w/o visiting the dealer.
The total labor was around $85, IIRC, this was 11 months ago. I remember this very well bc I didn’t mind paying although under warranty. Beat the hell out of schlepping the bike to the dealer.
I know that my bike cannot accept its European counterpart motor without the manufacturer re-flashing for the US (which I doubt RM would agree to), just for the record. I’m not sure what the consequences would be for Gen 4/3/2, but as these systems get ‘smarter’ I would not be surprised to see the motor disabled If motor location/version did not match. I‘m sure the justification is to ward off any potential liability issue. Remember, Gen4 users can already LOCK motors via Nyon download w/o visiting the dealer.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
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