Lugging a Motor, Why it's Bad

[Gionnirocket]

They have 2 odd teeth

 

[PCeBiker]

It looks like my 1st gear has 4 places per rotation to accommodate a chain to climb or decend,..

Second gear appears to have three ??

And the others have a couple and maybe only one for the 11 tooth high gear?

Something to keep in mind when your shifting gears on a freewheel.
The freewheel might need a full rotation to change gears smoothly.

 

[PCeBiker]

I bought the DnP freewheel tool because it's got enough clearance for my Fat Ass 1000 Watt motor cable plug on my first ebike,..

 

[PCeBiker]

They have 2 odd teeth

I have a gap between my two front teeth.
It helps me bite bike chains.

 

[PedalUma]

What else is going on here?

Perhaps the cassette calculation and calibration of chain length use even numbers on the high-end for a reason. I just had a 5:15 Saturday beer so I might not be fully cogent. Chains typically have narrow links and wide links alternating. A quick link only fits the outer plates = wide. But, and it is a big hot waxed Butt, half-link chains allow for refinement to an IGH of length to one link not two. They also have horizontal dropouts with limited room. You do not need to use an even number. So you could have a prime number of links, such as 113.

 

[PCeBiker]

I knew that you can buy half links, but I didn't know that they made full chains out of half links.

It looks like a good idea to me. It looks stronger.

Wouldn't work on a chain ring with fat and skinny teeth though.

 

[PCeBiker]

This will work on any bike unless you've got a staggered skinny/fat tooth chainring,..

But I'm almost positive that you can't have skinny fat teeth on a cassette or freewheel.
There's no way to keep the alignment correct as you go up and down gears, and the tooth count doesn't work on a cog with an odd numer of teeth.

The skinny teeth on a cassette or freewheel are skinnier than a normal skinny tooth.
Those teeth along with the rounded teeth are to help with changing gears.

 

[PedalUma]

See this classic bike shown before with a wide half-link chain to an IGH. You see the wire from the battery to the motor. Zoom that chain! That is exactly what an electric bike looks like that eats Creos. My first Creo eater in 2019 was chrome. Zoom that puppy, I am a much better builder but was on the track back then. I could sip coffee and blow past Specialized Creos in comfort, upright while they were huffing in Lycra. The clown horn was cool when passing spandex on a climb.

 

[DDBB]

I guess I should have held off replacing the chain. I usually cruise in 8th gear to save 9th. With the new chain, 8th gear is skipping. The teeth all look o.k. but it doesn't like the new chain. I guess I'll be using 9th for awhile. Maybe once the new chain wears in a little I can use 8th again? All other gears are fine.

 

[PCeBiker]

See this classic bike shown before with a wide half-link chain to an IGH. You see the wire from the battery to the motor. Zoom that chain!

Yeah, that chain looks Strong
It looks llike the rollers in-between are wider than normal as well.
Probably extra fat teeth on chain ring and sprocket too.

 

[stompandgo]

Shimano Hyperglide+ anyone?

 

[PedalUma]

8th gear is skipping

@DDBB, What you need is a DhAG. I had a bike this week that I thought was totally dialed in, in everyway. But it would shift down into higher gears crisply but would skip and miss going up to larger cogs. The vertical alignment of the hanger was off by 5mm and the horizontal by 10. The DhAG fixed it. As our good friends in NZ know, it is very different than a daggy sheep.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I guess I should have held off replacing the chain. I usually cruise in 8th gear to save 9th. With the new chain, 8th gear is skipping. The teeth all look o.k. but it doesn't like the new chain. I guess I'll be using 9th for awhile. Maybe once the new chain wears in a little I can use 8th again? All other gears are fine.

If you haven't tried a derailleur re_adjustment, that's where you should start. Then as @PedalUma says perhaps your hanger is out.
But I've had issues with a new chain... Not skipping but clanky/not super smooth shifting. New and old sometimes just don't mix well.

See this classic bike shown before with a wide half-link chain to an IGH. You see the wire from the battery to the motor. Zoom that chain! That is exactly what an electric bike looks like that eats Creos. My first Creo eater in 2019 was chrome. Zoom that puppy, I am a much better builder but was on the track back then. I could sip coffee and blow past Specialized Creos in comfort, upright while they were huffing in Lycra. The clown horn was cool when passing spandex on a climb.

So I've come across 1/2 links but never paid much attention to them as my limited understanding of it was.. It's a BMX thing.
What's necessary to implement one? Sprockets and tensioners all the same.. or are they 1/2 link specific?
Curious why Rohloff wouldn't spec this option and instead recommend an 8sp chain with 9-10 being acceptable. 7sp chain I believe is too fat for their tensioner.

 

[DDBB]

I did fiddle with cable tension with no joy. Visually the derailleur lines up with 8th gear. The bike has never been dropped or abused. I doubt the hangar is bent. Again, with the original chain, the bike has spent most of it's 2,000+miles in 8th gear. Although the teeth look just like all the others, I can't help but think I simply wore out 8th gear. I avoid 9th since it has so few teeth but now I'll be using it most of the time. Curious to see how long it will last. I don't start out in 9th and I don't mash the pedals either. I actually prefer 9th to 8th but thought I was doing a good thing by not using 9th. My other option is to reinstall the old chain that's at .5 or slightly more and simply ride it until skipping starts, then replace chain and cassette.

 

[PedalUma]

It's a BMX thing

The pitch or length between pins is identical, but single speed chains are wider, so force is dispersed over a larger area. Kids are standing on BMX with long cranks. It needs to be strong. Half-links were just a single quick-link on a single speed chain. Now you can get the entire chain that way. Use channel locks to start the pin or it will snap. These chains are directional. The wide side leads. I find that they are as good as a belt for a fraction of the money. A tensioner may need a little expansion with a twisted screwdriver.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

I did fiddle with cable tension with no joy. Visually the derailleur lines up with 8th gear. The bike has never been dropped or abused. I doubt the hangar is bent. Again, with the original chain, the bike has spent most of its 2,000+miles in 8th gear. Although the teeth look just like all the others, I can't help but think I simply wore out 8th gear. I avoid 9th since it has so few teeth but now I'll be using it most of the time. Curious to see how long it will last. I don't start out in 9th and I don't mash the pedals either. I actually prefer 9th to 8th but thought I was doing a good thing by not using 9th. My other option is to reinstall the old chain that's at .5 or slightly more and simply ride it until skipping starts, then replace chain and cassette.

Does the new chain have as many links as the old chain? This is how I measured my new chain when I replaced the old one. I figure if the chain stretched, maybe the old chain would measure to a length in the middle of a link? IDK I’d that could happen. With this in mind, I just counted the links, twice, then removed the extra links on the new chain . Maybe the pros have a better method?

 

[stompandgo]

I'm not a pro, but I don't count links. It all depends what I'm working on. For a wide range modern gearset, I hold the ends of the new chain together and pull them until the rear derailleur cage is tensioned properly, usually around 8 o'clock, then remove the closest outer link pin, leaving the two inner links for the master link. For older closer range gearsets, I do the same thing, but remove another one or two links so that when the bike is in the large-large combination, the rear derailleur cage is at 5 o'clock or so. Also, if the rear derailleur has a clutch, I turn it off for chain sizing and adjustments, and turn it on before it goes out the door.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I did fiddle with cable tension with no joy. Visually the derailleur lines up with 8th gear. The bike has never been dropped or abused. I doubt the hangar is bent. Again, with the original chain, the bike has spent most of it's 2,000+miles in 8th gear. Although the teeth look just like all the others, I can't help but think I simply wore out 8th gear. I avoid 9th since it has so few teeth but now I'll be using it most of the time. Curious to see how long it will last. I don't start out in 9th and I don't mash the pedals either. I actually prefer 9th to 8th but thought I was doing a good thing by not using 9th. My other option is to reinstall the old chain that's at .5 or slightly more and simply ride it until skipping starts, then replace chain and cassette.

Not cable tension... Derailleur adjustment.

And what do you mean by slipping?
Not staying in that gear?
Chain riding over the teeth?

 

[PedalUma]

Does the new chain have as many links as the old chain? This is how I measured my new chain when I replaced the old one. I figure if the chain stretched, maybe the old chain would measure to a length in the middle of a link? IDK I’d that could happen. With this in mind, I just counted the links, twice, then removed the extra links on the new chain . Maybe the pros have a better method?

I'm not a pro, but I don't count links. It all depends what I'm working on. For a wide range modern gearset, I hold the ends of the new chain together and pull them until the rear derailleur cage is tensioned properly, usually around 8 o'clock, then remove the closest outer link pin, leaving the two inner links for the master link. For older closer range gearsets, I do the same thing, but remove another one or two links so that when the bike is in the large-large combination, the rear derailleur cage is at 5 o'clock or so. Also, if the rear derailleur has a clutch, I turn it off for chain sizing and adjustments, and turn it on before it goes out the door.

If the old chain was the correct length, I put it over a door and cut the new to the same length. Stretch is internal between the rollers and pins, not overall.

I make an old piece of spoke into a chain hook. It is about 75mm long with hooks on each end. That way you can size on the bike without fighting the tensioner.

 

[PedalUma]

Not cable tension... Derailleur adjustment.

And what do you mean by slipping?
Not staying in that gear?
Chain riding over the teeth?

Yep. Set the limits without the cable attached. Then set cable tension. Not indexing can be caused by cable friction, internal corrosion, or sometimes an over zealous cable zip tie on a shift housing. Also lube the derailleur pivot points.

REI hires big kids to assemble bikes. They will apply zip ties with plyers as hard as they can and it chokes the cable.