Gonna Happen This Spring

[StuartKuz]

So I’ve spent time this fall riding ebikes at many Denver area LBSs and found many good people, but haven’t found the bike to buy. So I’m asking this more experienced community for advice.

I’m in my mid 70’s, 6’2” 190lbs. I bike 500-1000 miles per year on washboard roads, coarse gravel trails, and some asphalt trails, and some shopping, rarely more than 25 miles per ride. Mostly for exercise, so I’m primarily looking for help on hills that are getting steeper and miles home that are getting longer. I’ve ridden my Trek 6000 to 20 some years, tho not always as much as now. I expect to continue to ride without power but will not hesitate to make the ride longer or steeper and easier to get home.

Looking for a hardtail:
Up to $4k
Class 1(weird that ebike access is based on class rather than the speed you rid)
Less than 50lbs
Front suspension
Tire size 1.95-2.35”
Torque sensing mid mount motor 50-65Nm
A removable, integrated battery
Fairly large display

A few of the bikes I’ve ridden (always 1 size too small) and mostly eliminated:
-Bulls Copperhead -too much torque
-Gazelle Ultimate T10+ HMB -too heavy
-Giant Explore E+ -too heavy
-Haibike Trekking 5 -too heavy
-Kona DEW-E+ -No suspension
-Orbea Kemen 30 (too expensive, non removable battery, tho there is a ‘40’ that is less)
-Orbea Urrun 30 (too expensive, non removable battery, tho there is a ‘40’ that is less)
-Specialized Vado SL 4 -no suspension
-Trek Allant +7S- too heavy


So without something new on the market this spring, here’s where I’m leaning depending on the compromise and experiences here:
-Gazelle Medeo T10 HMB https://www.orbea.com/us-en/ebikes/urban/kemen-suv/cat/
-Giant Roam E+ GTS https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-roam-eplus
-Haro Dual Peak https://harobikes.com/products/double-peak-i-o-commuter-2021
-Kona El Kahuna https://konaworld.com/el_kahuna.cfm
-Orbeo Urrun H40 https://www.orbea.com/us-en/ebikes/urban/kemen-suv/cat/kemen-suv-40-20mph-2023
-Specialized Tero https://www.specialized.com/us/en/turbo-tero OK, this is new.
-Yamaha YDX Torc https://www.yamahabicycles.com/bikes/ydx-torc/

Thanks for reading this far, looking forward to experiences with any of these or suggestions. Happy trails to you.

 

[indianajo]

I'm age 72 and ride for cardio exercise. Working fine, I've lost 55 lb since I quit work & the cardiologist said "there is nothing wrong with your heart". I view riding the bike without power important when the wind is not strong in my face and I'm not beyond my 70 hill limit. Of the mid drives, all drag the motor with your feet with the power off except yamaha, brose, shimano steps, and the most expensive of 4 models bosch. One 49 lb hardtail bike with yamaha drive is Giant. https://electricbikereview.com/giant/2022-roam-e-plus/
Giant has dealers. Another giant brand is momentum.
Personally, I like geared hub drives because even if I wear the gears out (~4500 miles), or the rain burns the harness off the controller, they pedal fine without drag. New motors in a wheel are $35 to $300. I usually lose the electricity once or twice a year due to rain, usually the throttle is saturated. My legs get me home anyway, no calls for help (the wife's car is too small btw).
One hub drive model with front suspension and torque sensing is the surface 604 colt. https://electricbikereview.com/surface-604/colt/ Its 59 lb though. My bike with tools, supplies, water rain gear weighs 94 lb and I don't find it oppressive. I weigh 160. But I don't take my bike for rides with my car. I don't drive a car; the bike does it all unless I go on vacation and rent one. I do shop and my yuba can carry up to 80 lb on the rack or in the panniers shown in the avatar. I found with regular MTB or cruiser frames, supplies in the back bags make the front wheel lift up & become unstable. I measured 20 lb front 120 lb rear once without me on the MTB. The yuba stretch frame puts my weight on the front tire, the cargo on the back. Yuba is using shimano steps this year. No front suspension on cargo bikes.
Happy shopping and later riding.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thanks for reading this far, looking forward to experiences with any of these or suggestions.

Hi Stuart,

The specs look only good on paper. The reality is different. As e-bikes are far more complex than traditional bikes, the first things you should consider are:

• A possibility to do a demo ride. You will never know whether an e-bike would meet your needs and body size before you try
• Availability in a local bike store, or a possibility to deliver and handle your order by the LBS
• A good warranty, and an LBS that would be capable and devoted to handle the repairs and warranty claims
• A popularity of given motor/e-bike system and its reliability.

Now, there is more:

• Are you a fit person and only need occasional assistance, or do you need a lot of juice to assist you?
• How steep are your hills? (I expect your area is pretty hilly)
• Any winters? (Colorado, I think so)
• The percentage of unpaved rides you expect? Very rough terrain?

For instance, you eliminated Vado SL because of no suspension. Vado SL is one of my e-bikes; I simply installed the full Redshift ShockStop system (suspension stem and seat-post), and I enjoy group rides together with my gravel cycling club and trust me, we ride really rough terrain, mostly in forests. On the other hand that e-bike's motor feels too weak for me for serious hills. Still, the e-bike is so lightweight I can always take it in one hand and go for a ride. But it has an irremovable battery so I need to keep the e-bike in my apartment, and cannot remove the battery for winter outside storage. The e-bike is reliable and has the full attention of the Specialized LBS, and an excellent warranty.

The above was just an example of so many factors defining a good e-bike, it pros and limitations.

I was on a demo ride with Specialized Tero 3.0. I would be very happy with that e-bike if not a heavy and inadequate fork; and a smallish battery. Tero 5.0 is a good choice but it is a $5,000 e-bike. Very good and lightweight air fork. 710 Wh battery and a strong motor. The latest Mastermind system.

You made some mistakes in your list. You mention a Gazelle but the link points to Orbea Kemen. Or, your Urrun link points to Kemen. Is the battery removable there? I do not think so. How would you like to store either of these e-bikes during the winter? Any users on these Forums who have already tested the new Shimano motors/system?

Haro? WTF is Haro?! Not a big brand. Yes I can see it is a Shimano e-bike. Local support and warranty?

Giant... Well, why do I think it is a heavy e-bike with a weak motor and a small battery, a budget offering?

Kona: a small battery as for a full power e-bike. Local support and warranty?

Yamaha: E-bikes of that brand are not available in Europe so no slightest idea.

 

[Bobber]

I'd just convert that Trek 6000 you have. Hub drives are so simple to install and it will be lighter than many factory built ebikes. And way less than $4000 like $3000 less. There's no wire stripping or soldering, all the plugs are unique so that this plug only fits that plug. I converted my bike to a powerful mid-drive with a big battery and my bill was about $1600 but mine is class 3 with a 36 mph top speed. I'm 67 btw.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I'd just convert that Trek 6000 you have. Hub drives are so simple to install and it will be lighter than many factory built ebikes. And way less than $4000 like $3000 less. There's no wire stripping or soldering, all the plugs are unique so that this plug only fits that plug. I converted my bike to a powerful mid-drive with a big battery and my bill was about $1600 but mine is class 3 with a 36 mph top speed. I'm 67 btw.

It is an easy process. I did a DIY mid drive conversion. Doing a rear hub would be easy. Assuming you have all of the parts together, you can do the whole conversion in a day and have a really nice bike.

From the list above, the Giant Roam looks like a deal, and has a healthy dealer network.

 

[Bobber]

And I'd like to add that all of these components are already here in the US. I purchased my kit at eBike Essentials. They are straight shooters. If they are out of something the website tells you before you are even thinking about ordering. You can put together your own package, this motor with this battery and this display, etc. I got my stuff in 5 days. This isn't a sales pitch and I'm not affiliated.

 

[Nomad]

You mentioned size are you looking at XL or Large being 6'2". Also, if you're looking for a SL bike your going to pay a bit more but there are price drops in the future of the bike industry, and some are happening now.

 

[6zfshdb]

So I’ve spent time this fall riding ebikes at many Denver area LBSs and found many good people, but haven’t found the bike to buy. So I’m asking this more experienced community for advice.

I’m in my mid 70’s, 6’2” 190lbs. I bike 500-1000 miles per year on washboard roads, coarse gravel trails, and some asphalt trails, and some shopping, rarely more than 25 miles per ride. Mostly for exercise, so I’m primarily looking for help on hills that are getting steeper and miles home that are getting longer. I’ve ridden my Trek 6000 to 20 some years, tho not always as much as now. I expect to continue to ride without power but will not hesitate to make the ride longer or steeper and easier to get home.

Looking for a hardtail:
Up to $4k
Class 1(weird that ebike access is based on class rather than the speed you rid)
Less than 50lbs
Front suspension
Tire size 1.95-2.35”
Torque sensing mid mount motor 50-65Nm
A removable, integrated battery
Fairly large display

A few of the bikes I’ve ridden (always 1 size too small) and mostly eliminated:
-Bulls Copperhead -too much torque
-Gazelle Ultimate T10+ HMB -too heavy
-Giant Explore E+ -too heavy
-Haibike Trekking 5 -too heavy
-Kona DEW-E+ -No suspension
-Orbea Kemen 30 (too expensive, non removable battery, tho there is a ‘40’ that is less)
-Orbea Urrun 30 (too expensive, non removable battery, tho there is a ‘40’ that is less)
-Specialized Vado SL 4 -no suspension
-Trek Allant +7S- too heavy


So without something new on the market this spring, here’s where I’m leaning depending on the compromise and experiences here:
-Gazelle Medeo T10 HMB https://www.orbea.com/us-en/ebikes/urban/kemen-suv/cat/
-Giant Roam E+ GTS https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-roam-eplus
-Haro Dual Peak https://harobikes.com/products/double-peak-i-o-commuter-2021
-Kona El Kahuna https://konaworld.com/el_kahuna.cfm
-Orbeo Urrun H40 https://www.orbea.com/us-en/ebikes/urban/kemen-suv/cat/kemen-suv-40-20mph-2023
-Specialized Tero https://www.specialized.com/us/en/turbo-tero OK, this is new.
-Yamaha YDX Torc https://www.yamahabicycles.com/bikes/ydx-torc/

Thanks for reading this far, looking forward to experiences with any of these or suggestions. Happy trails to you.

You are absolutely doing the right thing by test riding. Simply put, the best bike is the one that fits YOU best. your priority should be comfort first, LBS support & warranty second (unless you're a DIY'er), and price third. The bells & whistles can be added later to most any bike.

Back in 2018, I was in the same situation as you. Same age, height & weight and riding history. There were no LBS in my rural area so I travelled to distant cities and tested dozens of bikes. Like you, due to my size, all the bikes seemed too small. I ultimately chose a bike with a fit that was less than perfect but had a good warranty and excellent customer support. All it took were a few simple modifications to adjust the fit to my liking. I Changed the handlebars & added a stem riser for a more upright riding position. I also added a suspension seatpost to raise the saddle height and provide a softer ride on rough surfaces. As my DIY skills improved, I even added a set of quality front suspension forks.

The mods cost around $200 (minus the forks) and took less than 2 hours to do myself. Most good LBS will do the work for you if necessary. Many will even let you try different saddles & bars that may suit you better.

All the bikes you mention above have good "bones" but your requirements limit your choice. Weight is less of an issue with an E-bike except for loading and unloading. Removing the battery helps. There are also specialty racks available to help handle heavier bikes.

I guess my point is, don't turn down a bike you like when the fit & equipment can be adjusted to meet your needs.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your quest for the perfect bike! Please keep us posted with your progress!

 

[harryS]

The Trek 6000 is 31 pounds? A BBS02B middrive is 9.4 lbs w/o crank/pedals. This hefty battery is 7.8 pounds. That gets you in under 50lbs and under $1000. I paid $410 for the Bafang BBS02. Happens to be a home cooked $100 battery, but budget $500 for a good one.
.
The Bafang is like a V6 conversion though with 750 watts, and it's not torque sense. Tell you what, if I owned a Trek 6000, the Tongsheng TSDZ2B might be my first choice. Torque sensing and around 400W per my butt dyno, but more like an assisted bike/ It's also $100 cheaper, but it's more touchy. I like it with user loaded OSF firmware, and if you aren't up to that, you can buy it preloaded from a US source for waround $500. It will preserve the character of the Trek., if you're into character. A non rider would prefer the Bafang.
Both have throttles (optional).
.
I'm sure you can find a builder in Denver. Otherwise, I'd suggest a real electric Trek.

 

[StuartKuz]

One 49 lb hardtail bike with yamaha drive is Giant. https://electricbikereview.com/giant/2022-roam-e-plus/
Giant has dealers. Another giant brand is momentum.
Personally, I like geared hub drives ...

Thanks for the suggestion and point of view. Actually the Giant Roam E is on the short list and was one of the first ebikes I rode. There is a good Giant lbs not far away. I felt that I was alway in the high gear and at a high cadence. I think a different gearing and an integral battery would make this a fine choice, kind of like what the new Specialized Tero is like.

The first bikes I rode were hub bikes, and felt I was getting pushed along. I'm going to pay the extra for a mid mount motor.

Thanks again.

 

[StuartKuz]

Hi Stuart,

The specs look only good on paper. The reality is different. As e-bikes are far more complex than traditional bikes, the first things you should consider are:

• A possibility to do a demo ride. You will never know whether an e-bike would meet your needs and body size before you try
• Availability in a local bike store, or a possibility to deliver and handle your order by the LBS
• A good warranty, and an LBS that would be capable and devoted to handle the repairs and warranty claims
• A popularity of given motor/e-bike system and its reliability.

Now, there is more:

• Are you a fit person and only need occasional assistance, or do you need a lot of juice to assist you?
• How steep are your hills? (I expect your area is pretty hilly)
• Any winters? (Colorado, I think so)
• The percentage of unpaved rides you expect? Very rough terrain?

For instance, you eliminated Vado SL because of no suspension. Vado SL is one of my e-bikes; I simply installed the full Redshift ShockStop system (suspension stem and seat-post), and I enjoy group rides together with my gravel cycling club and trust me, we ride really rough terrain, mostly in forests. On the other hand that e-bike's motor feels too weak for me for serious hills. Still, the e-bike is so lightweight I can always take it in one hand and go for a ride. But it has an irremovable battery so I need to keep the e-bike in my apartment, and cannot remove the battery for winter outside storage. The e-bike is reliable and has the full attention of the Specialized LBS, and an excellent warranty.

The above was just an example of so many factors defining a good e-bike, it pros and limitations.

I was on a demo ride with Specialized Tero 3.0. I would be very happy with that e-bike if not a heavy and inadequate fork; and a smallish battery. Tero 5.0 is a good choice but it is a $5,000 e-bike. Very good and lightweight air fork. 710 Wh battery and a strong motor. The latest Mastermind system.

You made some mistakes in your list. You mention a Gazelle but the link points to Orbea Kemen. Or, your Urrun link points to Kemen. Is the battery removable there? I do not think so. How would you like to store either of these e-bikes during the winter? Any users on these Forums who have already tested the new Shimano motors/system?

Haro? WTF is Haro?! Not a big brand. Yes I can see it is a Shimano e-bike. Local support and warranty?

Giant... Well, why do I think it is a heavy e-bike with a weak motor and a small battery, a budget offering?

Kona: a small battery as for a full power e-bike. Local support and warranty?

Yamaha: E-bikes of that brand are not available in Europe so no slightest idea.

Hi Stefan- Thanks a ton for the detailed response. To your points:
I will only buy a bike that I can test ride- and I've driven around a lot of Denver metro to find dealers of bikes that seem like possibilities. I've even rented a couple and taken longer rides-

Kona DEW-E proved I needed front suspension, but showed me that the Shimano E6100 w 60Nm was plenty of power;
Trek Explore E+ proved I don't want a 55+ lb bike;
Gazelle Medeo 9 that I don't want the weight of a battery on a rack,
Orbea Kemen 30 that I don't want 85NM of torque and
one that showed a Gates belt with IGH was not where I was going.

The only exception is one local LBS that will bring home any Specialized or Kona in my size with a completely refundable deposit. Financialy, I would rather buy a workable bike rather than modding after purchase. I appreciate your liking the Vado SL, it was easy to like after a ride on asphalt.

To your questions, I'm fairly fit for being in my upper 70s, but am noticing the effect of aging- ugh. Yes indeed there are some steeper hills that get my pulse and breathing going, and winter is an issue. But today will get up to the upper 40sF and sunny, so I'm test riding the WTF Haro for a 20-30mile muddy ride. The closest LBS sells this California company's hardtail, it will be a 20" frame, so a bit small. Most of my riding is on unpaved trails and roads, I just don't trust all the car drivers around here. And the dirt roads are usually washboards.

Sorry about the bad link to the Urrun, new around here, but I have trouble getting past the non removeable battery, it is just too cold at night to leave a battery in the garage. https://www.orbea.com/us-en/ebikes/mountain/urrun/ The Orbea Kemen has been the most comfortable ride, but still no removeable battery. It must always be warm in Spain ;-)

Yamaha is the only one I haven't gotten to yet. At 47lb, an intergral battery, and an 11-43 cassette, it looks good on paper, but as you said, it does need a good ride to see how it fits.

Thanks again for your response and insights.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Thanks for the suggestion and point of view. Actually the Giant Roam E is on the short list and was one of the first ebikes I rode. There is a good Giant lbs not far away. I felt that I was alway in the high gear and at a high cadence. I think a different gearing and an integral battery would make this a fine choice, kind of like what the new Specialized Tero is like.

The first bikes I rode were hub bikes, and felt I was getting pushed along. I'm going to pay the extra for a mid mount motor.

Thanks again.

Stuart,
I know what you mean about rear hubs feeling like you are being pushed. That is a characteristic of the Cadence sensing rear hubs. Were you able to try a torque sensing rear hub? They feel very different. Aventon makes a torque sensing rear hub that costs $1,799 and weighs 54 lbs. I have owned two Aventon Levels (Step Thru) since Sept 20' and they are excellent bikes.

Also, not knowing anything about your fitness level or flexibility (I'm 65), the Level comes in a Step Thru model which cold be advantageous and extend your biking years as you age.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I will only buy a bike that I can test ride- and I've driven around a lot of Denver metro to find dealers of bikes that seem like possibilities. I've even rented a couple and taken longer rides-

Stuart, it looks you are a self aware person. Good luck with your quest!

Just back from a 50 km ride at -5 C (23 F). Guess what I was riding (Vado SL!)

Think about the Tero. Specialized Turbo e-bikes allow full tuning of the motor. Unhappy with 90 Nm for version 5.0? Just decrease Assist and Max Motor Power in Mission Control app

 

[indianajo]

The first bikes I rode were hub bikes, and felt I was getting pushed along. I'm going to pay the extra for a mid mount motor.

So was this a torque sense bike? Probably not, there are only 2 or 3 brands hub motor with torque assist control. Pedal Assist (PAS) runs at fixed speeds mostly too fast. I really hate it most times. If the wind is 25 mph in my face and it is going to take mr 6 hours to get home 30 miles unpowered, I'm happy to be pushed along. I use the throttle when I actually want to use power. I deleted my crank sensor I hate PAS so much. My controller doesn't allow for torque sensor. Two brands I know of hub motor with torque sensor are Aventon & surface604.
If your buy a Bosch or Bafang mid drive bike, you are giving up the advantage of pedaling yourself unpowered. At our age, time spent not exercising aerobically is time that must be replaced by other exercise. Or just motor around like 99% of other US residents.
I agree with goal of removeable battery. I rode to the bank & grocery Friday at 22 F, which would make a LiIon battery useless. I put battery under a heating pad below freezing, off the bike, from December to April. I don't ride 30 miles in winter. I do ride 8 miles three times a week all winter, even into 30 mph wind as Monday. I leave the 11 lb of motor, controller, wiring, on the bike all winter.

 

[fooferdoggie]

So was this a torque sense bike? Probably not, there are only 2 or 3. Pedal Assist (PAS) does that, I really hate it most times. If the wind is 25 mph in my face and it is going to take my 6 hours to get home 30 miles, I'm happy to be pushed along. I use the throttle when I actually want to use power. I deleted my crank sensor I hate PAS so much. My 2018 controller doesn't allow for torque sensor. Two brands I know of hub motor with torque sensor are Aventon & surface604.
If your buy a Bosch or Bafang mid drive bike, you are giving up the advantage of pedaling yourself unpowered. At our age, time spent not exercising aerobically is time that must be replaced by other exercise. Or just motor around like 99% of other US residents.

why would you be giving up peddling unpowered? both my boschs work just fine without power. it takes a lot more work to peddle them but thats because they have far bigger tires. but out them on the stand and they peddle just fine.

 

[teskow]

Stuart,
I know what you mean about rear hubs feeling like you are being pushed. That is a characteristic of the Cadence sensing rear hubs. Were you able to try a torque sensing rear hub? They feel very different. Aventon makes a torque sensing rear hub that costs $1,799 and weighs 54 lbs. I have owned two Aventon Levels (Step Thru) since Sept 20' and they are excellent bikes.

Also, not knowing anything about your fitness level or flexibility (I'm 65), the Level comes in a Step Thru model which cold be advantageous and extend your biking years as you age.

I had a Juiced RC with a Bafang 750 W rear hub motor. It had cadence and torque sensing settings. On the torque sensing mode it never felt pushed, never. it was smooth as silk on the power delivery. It would come in so smooth I sometimes had to look to see if it was using any juice. It was every bit as smooth a power delivery as my current Brose powered bike. The Brose power delivery I believe every e-bike motor should strive to attain. You just gotta have a quality controller to have a nice riding electric bike.

 

[StuartKuz]

First and foremost- thanks for all the input and suggestions. It is a big help.

Did a 15 mile 2nd test ride of the Haro, a lot of mud, snow, and slush. It is an all Shimano bike with a Taiwanese frame.

It was the 20" frame and sat half off the back of the saddle.

It's 46lb weren't definitely somewhat heaver to ride without power than my 35lb Trek. I guess fenders and a rack will add to that.

The E6100 had a great power range. The ride was 50% power off, but when the wind came up or a hill, it was nice to have and never needed to be put on High. Got into 'Normal' power once, it was more than enough.

The Deore cassette was smoother shifting than the Alivio that has been on other bikes at this price, and the gear range seems better for hills.

The sizing of the front sprocket and small gear made 15-17mph comfortable at my 60ish revs/min.

The battery indicator has 20% increments. It was at '60-80%' at the start and at the end. So the 504Wh battery is plenty for me.

The large 6100 display was mostly readable and the power consumption indicator, when readable, helped me understand when the motor was working hard and it was time to shift.

The best, turned out to be the LBS, Niwot Wheels. The owner would not accept an offer to pay a rental fee in spite of getting a filthy bike back that I just wiped down. Offered to order the 22" with a refundable downpayment if it didn't feel good and use it as a rental. He even offered to swap out tires to something less aggressive for free.

So the saga continues, and thanks!

 

[Nomad]

First and foremost- thanks for all the input and suggestions. It is a big help.

Did a 15 mile 2nd test ride of the Haro, a lot of mud, snow, and slush. It is an all Shimano bike with a Taiwanese frame.

It was the 20" frame and sat half off the back of the saddle.

It's 46lb weren't definitely somewhat heaver to ride without power than my 35lb Trek. I guess fenders and a rack will add to that.

The E6100 had a great power range. The ride was 50% power off, but when the wind came up or a hill, it was nice to have and never needed to be put on High. Got into 'Normal' power once, it was more than enough.

The Deore cassette was smoother shifting than the Alivio that has been on other bikes at this price, and the gear range seems better for hills.

The sizing of the front sprocket and small gear made 15-17mph comfortable at my 60ish revs/min.

The battery indicator has 20% increments. It was at '60-80%' at the start and at the end. So the 504Wh battery is plenty for me.

The large 6100 display was mostly readable and the power consumption indicator, when readable, helped me understand when the motor was working hard and it was time to shift.

The best, turned out to be the LBS, Niwot Wheels. The owner would not accept an offer to pay a rental fee in spite of getting a filthy bike back that I just wiped down. Offered to order the 22" with a refundable downpayment if it didn't feel good and use it as a rental. He even offered to swap out tires to something less aggressive for free.

So the saga continues, and thanks!

Interesting developement Haro & Shimano. It seems like people either like the Shimano motors or hate them. Is this the Haro brand from back in the day?

 

[McCorby]

It seems like people either like the Shimano motors or hate them.

I guess you could say that about any motor…..right? I have an E8000 and love it!

 

[StuartKuz]

Interesting developement Haro & Shimano. It seems like people either like the Shimano motors or hate them. Is this the Haro brand from back in the day?

I'm not sure when back in the days were (was?), but they are a souther Cal company that made BMXs since the late '70s. Not sure when they started ebikes, but the lbs owner says they are good to deal with, and they did respond to my email quickly. I'm curious to see who will use the EP6.