Vado (SL), Gazelle, Oh My..

[Stefan Mikes]

I have been following this thread with interest, although just as an observer, at least up until now. I have a 2019 Vado 3.0, which is the equivalent of today's 4.0, with the exception being that mine came with the smaller 460wh battery. Most of my rides are less than 10 miles, but I enjoy going on longer organized rides and want to do more of those in the future. However, I found that my smaller battery can only handle 35 to 40 miles, and that is riding in Eco all the time except to climb hills. I recently found a brand-new 604wh battery at a great price so I now expect to be able to use the larger battery for longer rides up to 50 miles, while keeping the smaller battery as my main battery. I even ordered another battery cover in my bike's light blue color (Specialized calls it Storm Grey) so the batteries swap in and out seamlessly. My two cents is that adding the extra battery is a great idea and, even though they are not cheap, if you expect to do any longer rides, or you will be away from a power source and unable to recharge, it becomes a necessity.

I'm totally with you, Jim! You would be able to ride for well over 50 miles in standard Eco on a new 604 Wh battery. I would even recommend to rotate the batteries for greater longevity.

 

[dynamic]

after reading the Dynamic thread

While I don't think the IGH bikes are prime time ready (at least not enviolo based ones), it will still depend on use. I have since identified a few simple potential reasons the drive train may have behaved the way it did. And I am now fairly convinced that the primary issues is actually lack of maintenance experience of these models by the LBS. The problem is specialized response isn't to diagnose and train the LBS, it is throw parts at it. That's ok to a point, but it meant having my bike in the shop for weeks. And my good weather riding season is pretty short.

I do appreciate how flexible specialized was in supporting the bike and ultimately the return. I enjoyed it so much when it was working that I am *still* tempted to buy the thing again and just let specialized throw parts at it as necessary (thankfully, no stock or it would be a serious risk).

That said, today I learned I like chains more than a less refined rohloff IGH experience. So Automatic IGH > Manual CVT IGH > chain > my bafang/rohloff is the ranked order of riding experience.

I have also seen *zero* of these complaints around the 3.0/4.0/manual IGH models. I want to look into that, because if the automatic is the source of issues, that's a whole different can of worms (and probably an entirely different set of preventative maintenance measures).

Anywho, I have now tried a bunch of similar bikes, and specialized *IS* a very good experience outside of the IGH issues. I am close to buying a chain como 5.0 for my wife and a tero X 6.0 for me.

 

[harr]

While I don't think the IGH bikes are prime time ready (at least not enviolo based ones), it will still depend on use. I have since identified a few simple potential reasons the drive train may have behaved the way it did. And I am now fairly convinced that the primary issues is actually lack of maintenance experience of these models by the LBS. The problem is specialized response isn't to diagnose and train the LBS, it is throw parts at it. That's ok to a point, but it meant having my bike in the shop for weeks. And my good weather riding season is pretty short.

I do appreciate how flexible specialized was in supporting the bike and ultimately the return. I enjoyed it so much when it was working that I am *still* tempted to buy the thing again and just let specialized throw parts at it as necessary (thankfully, no stock or it would be a serious risk).

That said, today I learned I like chains more than a less refined rohloff IGH experience. So Automatic IGH > Manual CVT IGH > chain > my bafang/rohloff is the ranked order of riding experience.

I have also seen *zero* of these complaints around the 3.0/4.0/manual IGH models. I want to look into that, because if the automatic is the source of issues, that's a whole different can of worms (and probably an entirely different set of preventative maintenance measures).

Anywho, I have now tried a bunch of similar bikes, and specialized *IS* a very good experience outside of the IGH issues. I am close to buying a chain como 5.0 for my wife and a tero X 6.0 for me.

Thanks for sharing the info, and for your huge thread. I actually read all of it before making a decision.

I agree with you, in my research, I didn't hear any complaints on the manual IGH setup. I've not heard of any consistent complaints on the manual Enviolo setup and any Bosch motor, either. When it came to compare the Gazelle vs the IGH 3.0, the Gazelle was just the better bike IMO. I've had the LBS upgrade the standard Bosch Purion to a Nyon so that I get the control over the assistance levels in the custom modes, as well as navigation (and Komoot integration), and the lock/alarm features. All were items I really wanted from the specialized ecosystem, and now have some amount of feature parity through that upgrade.

Of course at this point I'm now at ~150% the cost of the 3.0 IGH, so I suppose there were trade-offs..

Where did you land on clip-in shoes / pedals? I remember you initially liking them, but wasn't sure if you changed your mind after time? Thought about giving them a try since you enjoyed it so much.

 

[dynamic]

Where did you land on clip-in shoes / pedals?

I clip in everywhere. The pd-eh500 dual sided pedals continue to be magical. I just returned the garmin xc200 to REI because they were not behaving great (electronically, but I am also over their weight limit, which may be contributing to the random issues). Their release also is a bit more stubborn (but not problematic). And the eh500 are basically psychic. They unclip *only* when that is the desire, but do it instantly. It's a little freaky. I swear they will do it on a normal upstroke if my brain wants to unclip. I also have the pd-me700 on my peloton. They are fine. Clip in and out is much firmer. I only use the sh-56 cleats which are the quicker release variety. I have never used the sh-51.

As for shoes I have two pairs. The Specialized Recon 1.0 is my dedicated indoor peloton shoe. It's fine. Convenient, easy. Not as comfortable for walking as my PEARL iZUMi X-Alp Summit Mountain Bike Shoes. I have one complaint about Summit: over time, the rear of the shoe has weakened a bit causing it to collapse when putting it on. The recon has a loop back there to pull the shoe on which will likely eliminate that issue. I would not cry if I was forced to own only one of these shoes.

The Summit is also possibly one of the most comfortable shoes I have ever had on my feet. Full stop. If the cleat didn't make itself known, I would wear these for all things, not just cycling. I may see if they make the same shoe without a cleat. (I suppose I could just get a pair and not put cleats on them. not sure if the lack of support there would make them feel weird)

For winter riding I tried a bunch of stuff. My foot shape prevented most waterproof cycling shoes and boots with one exception: the 45nrth wolvhammer. I didn't buy them because I gave up on winter cycling for the time being. Even the ragnarok from them did not fit. I did not try the wolfgar, but I would expect it would also fit. That is what I would buy for deep winter riding. Now that I have a peloton, I am not sure deep winter riding will ever happen.

I have not changed my mind. I doubt I ever will. Clipping in is world changing. I had to test ride the Vado SL today without clips. I would expect it would have improved the experience a bit more if I had the ability to clip in. Any bike I own will get spd pedals.

 

[dynamic]

Gazelle was just the better bike IMO

This is one I haven't personally ridden. At this point, I am not going to unless I get discourage with Specialized in general. The bosch system just isn't as flexible. So unless the bike absolutely blew me away (compared to a vado), I doubt it would be able to beat a specialized chain model for me.

I will spend some time researching the R&M and Evelo bikes that have the automatic. IT will be interesting to see if they have similar complaints.

 

[harr]

Finally got the Gazelle early in the week and have put about 30 miles on it. The upgraded Nyon (MY21) is exactly what I had wanted as far as a computer, so very glad I did that upgrade. Apparently it is not an easy retrofit, took the shop 6 hours, but since I negotiated the installation in as part of the purchase I avoided some costly labor fees there.

Really enjoying the ride. The IGH and belt are nice, and I love the shifter and being able to make smaller adjustments, as well adjusting at a stand still. Very glad I got the mid-step to be honest, I was worried about how it would look, but it's very convenient and don't feel like I"m getting a physical at the doctors office when I stand over the bike.. The 1.75" wide tires have stood up to basic trails / gravel just fine. The Bosch motor / battery are great, though battery life leaves a bit to be desired. I finished my ~20 mile ride this morning at 48% left. See below for breakdown of time spent in each mode. I'm confident I could get a "lazy" 30 out of it no problem, so with a spare battery, 60 miles is easily reachable, and probably 80 is I was thrifty with eco mode.

I know there were comments about the Specialized Mastermind being a great system for data, but just wanted to give Bosch some props here.. see below for the screenshot from their web portal which takes the data from the bike computer via BT phone sync (or WIFI, if you turn it on in range and sync that way). Of interesting note is the export options, including .CSV. All of the graph options (speed, altitude, cadence, motor power contribution) provide data, you can just only pick 2 at a time on their website.

Still have my heart set on the Vado SL 5.0 EQ, but it will be a while.. I hit some rain and heavy wind on the way back home today and wasn't even slightly worried because I knew I had the big motor / battery to help me out. I would've been worried on the SL.. but I imagine as my fitness level improves, so will the viability of the SL.

Next up, an additional light for some night forest road riding and testing out those SPD shoes (Pearl Izumi) and pedals he was raving about..

 

[Readytoride]

@harr - Congrats on your new Gazelle 380+. I have two - a 2022 and a 2023 (short version- won the 2023 in a raffle). It's a quality bike with outstanding components. Silent, and comfortable. The carbon belt will go through hell and high water and not even flinch.

Your battery should give you at least 35-40 miles running in Turbo the entire time. I tend to ride in Sport mode (we have lots of hills plus I ride gravel roads) and can easily get 45-50 miles out of the battery. I purchased a second battery for the 60 mile rides, and was very glad I did. Cost me about $1k, but it was a worthwhile investment. I don't use it often, but when its needed, I have it.

 

[harr]

@harr - Congrats on your new Gazelle 380+. I have two - a 2022 and a 2023 (short version- won the 2023 in a raffle). It's a quality bike with outstanding components. Silent, and comfortable. The carbon belt will go through hell and high water and not even flinch.

Your battery should give you at least 35-40 miles running in Turbo the entire time. I tend to ride in Sport mode (we have lots of hills plus I ride gravel roads) and can easily get 45-50 miles out of the battery. I purchased a second battery for the 60 mile rides, and was very glad I did. Cost me about $1k, but it was a worthwhile investment. I don't use it often, but when its needed, I have it.

Good to know, thanks! Yep, I have the battery cover on hand, just waiting to prove to myself I'll actually use the spare battery for spending the $1,000 on it. Glad to know I should be able to use 35 miles as the "safe" distance mark for full assist. We're pretty flat around here in the midwest, but I am doing a fair bit of road riding where I push it to 25mph for long stretches. I imagine a lower speed uses the battery more optimally.

Loving the IGH and carbon belt for sure. Questions for you though, @Readytoride , have you found a good compatible rear rack bag? I've got the Ortleib paniers and they work OK, but haven't started looking for just a bag that connect to the top of the rear rack..

 

[Readytoride]

Questions for you though, @Readytoride , have you found a good compatible rear rack bag? I've got the Ortleib paniers and they work OK, but haven't started looking for just a bag that connect to the top of the rear rack..

Depends upon how much you want to pack in those bags. I have equestrian saddle bags (come in some wonderful colors) from Tough 1 that have two built in insulated drink holders so I don't have to bother with drink holders on the bike itself.

Picture of my Rivian Blue Gazelle (story of that bike on the other thread) with a black pack.

My two 380+ Gazelle's and my Vado 4.0, all with the saddle packs:

A couple of close up shots (below) of a saddle pack - it's designed to drape over the back of a horse slightly under the cantle (back) of an English saddle, and over a western saddle just behind the seat, so that the two drink holders (padded and open) are easily accessible to retrieve and replace a water bottle without having to look at them. The holders can easily carry up to a 1 liter bottles (as shown), one on each side, and keep them secure without them flipping out over rough terrain (or during a gallop). The equestrian design means you don't have to modify the pack for a bike. I did modify mine a bit by sewing up some of the backpiece so that the pack sat higher on the back of my bike. The d-rings that come on the pack for attaching to your (English or western) saddle are perfectly situated for attaching the pack to your bike's frame pieces using double sided velcro. From start to finish it takes about 3 minutes to attach to your bike.

The cost? About $36. Where to get them? Anywhere on the internet. I get mine from Amazon. Look under Tough 1 Nylon Water Bottle/Gear Carrier Saddle Bag.

​

These saddle bags fold in close to the bike when not full of stuff like riding jackets, sandwiches, hats, gloves, maps, assorted bike equipment like small hand pumps, etc. Each pack can really carry a lot of stuff, and includes a handy slip pocket on the outside for stuff you want to retrieve often (like a ride map or directions). They have two extendable straps on the top to secure/carry bulky clothing or camping equipment (like a pup tent).

They come in black, brown, purple, blue, and pink. I have every single color. I loved them when I rode endurance on my horse (12 years - I used the blue pack since that was my endurance tack color). I love them now for my bikes.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

I think this has come up before, but that bike would look even better with the battery cover painted. Terrific color!